I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.

If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really
heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the
water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW.

I filled it back up and it has held the correct level for 2 days since
the rains.

The only thing I can imagine to explain this is some sort of siphoning
action that only gets started when the pond is heavily flooded but
that breaks when the level gets low enough.

Any other suggestions or ideas from the crew?

TIA
Mike

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp

I don't know

Mike Patterson wrote:

I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.

If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really
heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the
water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW.

I filled it back up and it has held the correct level for 2 days since
the rains.

The only thing I can imagine to explain this is some sort of siphoning
action that only gets started when the pond is heavily flooded but
that breaks when the level gets low enough.

Any other suggestions or ideas from the crew?

TIA
Mike

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp

yup!! you hit the nail on the head. Ingrid

Mike Patterson wrote:
The only thing I can imagine to explain this is some sort of siphoning
action that only gets started when the pond is heavily flooded but
that breaks when the level gets low enough.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Mike Patterson wrote in message . ..
I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.

If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really
heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the
water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW.

I filled it back up and it has held the correct level for 2 days since
the rains.

The only thing I can imagine to explain this is some sort of siphoning
action that only gets started when the pond is heavily flooded but
that breaks when the level gets low enough.

Any other suggestions or ideas from the crew?

TIA
Mike


Most likely it is wicking around a fold in the liner or a hole high up
on the liner[siphoning]. If you used EPDM rubber it is unlikely. If
you used polyproplene it is very likely because my old liner after 4
years was full of holes where the sun hit.Happy water gardening.
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp

Mike Patterson wrote in message . ..
I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.

If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really
heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the
water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW.

Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the
sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the
membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane
stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less
water than before.

Creative! Mike, is that Offbreed right?

Jim

"Offbreed" wrote in message
...
Mike Patterson wrote in
message . ..
I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.

If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really
heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the
water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW.

Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the
sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the
membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane
stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less
water than before.

It is very possible that water is flowing under the liner, lifting the liner
for a period of time and then percolating out, allowing the liner to settle
back down, making the water level go down. There have been a number of
people that have had problems with the liner floating up out of the hole,
causing a large bubble under the liner. Your soil sounds like it is more
permeable than theirs. Try raising the ground level around the high side of
the pond to divert the water away from the pond. That might keep the water
level from rising and then falling back down.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Michael Shaffer" wrote in message
...
I don't know

Mike Patterson wrote:

I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.

If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really
heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the
water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW.

I filled it back up and it has held the correct level for 2 days since
the rains.

The only thing I can imagine to explain this is some sort of siphoning
action that only gets started when the pond is heavily flooded but
that breaks when the level gets low enough.

Any other suggestions or ideas from the crew?

TIA
Mike

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp

On 23 Nov 2003 22:10:15 -0800, (Offbreed)
wrote:

Mike Patterson wrote in message . ..
I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.

If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really
heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the
water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW.

Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the
sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the
membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane
stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less
water than before.

Thanks for the idea, but I think that isn't it this time, as the liner
wraps up & over the edges of the pond and are held with large stones
all 'way around.

Thanks
Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp

Don't think so, since the liner wraps up & over the edges of the pond
by about 12 inches and is held by large rocks.

Thanks
Mike

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 05:47:07 -0600, "Phyllis and Jim Hurley"
wrote:

Creative! Mike, is that Offbreed right?

Jim

"Offbreed" wrote in message
m...
Mike Patterson wrote in
message . ..
I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.

If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really
heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the
water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW.

Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the
sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the
membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane
stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less
water than before.


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:02:11 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

It is very possible that water is flowing under the liner, lifting the liner
for a period of time and then percolating out, allowing the liner to settle
back down, making the water level go down. There have been a number of
people that have had problems with the liner floating up out of the hole,
causing a large bubble under the liner. Your soil sounds like it is more
permeable than theirs. Try raising the ground level around the high side of
the pond to divert the water away from the pond. That might keep the water
level from rising and then falling back down.

Ah-ha, there's something I hadn't thought of, and might very well be
the answer given the way the ground around the pond is configured.

I've now dug a drainage ditch about 30' uphill from the pond to
prevent runoff getting in and silting up the pond (which also happened
after the big rain).

Changing the ground level immediately uphill from the pond would be a
real pain as there is a stone patio there, do you think I could just
put a layer of rounded pea gravel on the bottom to prevent the bubble
from floating the liner up?

Thanks!
Mike

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp

Mike,
I'm sorry I don't yet have any advice to help you, but thought I'd just
let you know that I feel your pain. I have the same situation. The liner
of my pond wraps up and over a layer of rocks that are anchoring it - sounds
like yours. Mine's brand new and we just finished it before the winter
rains started here in the Pacific Northwest. And as soon as the rain DID
start, the liner bubbled waaaaay up and I was out there every night in the
rain with a little pump trying to fish a garden hose down under the liner
and pump out the water from underneath. That was no fun so for now, we've
put 3 huge rocks at the bottom and 8, 2x16 patio bricks around the 1foot
deep shelf to hold the liner down. That seems to be working fairly well,
although the liner still puffs a little on the vertical slant from the 1foot
shelf down to the bottom.

We also edged the high edge of the pond with that plastic garden edging
stuff that's about 4 inches wide in an effort to get the runoff from the
upper part of the yard to go around the pond rather than under it. But I'm
afraid of taking the bricks out to see if that made a difference. I don't
like pumping out the water from underneath the liner and I'm afraid that the
shelf is in danger of being ruined when the water collects under there and
swishes dirt around.

When summer returns my husband and I think we're in for more digging to
make some kind of drainage trench near or around the dang thing.

Anyway, it sounds like yours drains a lot quicker than ours so maybe you'll
have an easier time dealing with it. Good luck to you and please post if
you find a good solution!

Lydia



"Mike Patterson" wrote in
message news
On 23 Nov 2003 22:10:15 -0800, (Offbreed)
wrote:

Mike Patterson wrote in
message . ..
I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.

If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really
heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the
water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW.

Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the
sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the
membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane
stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less
water than before.

Thanks for the idea, but I think that isn't it this time, as the liner
wraps up & over the edges of the pond and are held with large stones
all 'way around.

Thanks
Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp

Mike,

Could you put a stone curb along the edge of the patio to raise the edge and
divert the runoff of the patio away from the pond?

You could put rock in the pond, but I am one of the no rocks in my pond, now
or ever. Rocks can cause real problems for cleaning a pond and give
anaerobic bacteria good places to work on the debris that builds up between
the rocks, giving off hydrogen sulfide which is very toxic to the fish.
Flat slates laid on the bottom would provide the weight, but not the number
of places for the mulm.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Mike Patterson" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:02:11 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

It is very possible that water is flowing under the liner, lifting the
liner
for a period of time and then percolating out, allowing the liner to
settle
back down, making the water level go down. There have been a number of
people that have had problems with the liner floating up out of the hole,
causing a large bubble under the liner. Your soil sounds like it is more
permeable than theirs. Try raising the ground level around the high side
of
the pond to divert the water away from the pond. That might keep the
water
level from rising and then falling back down.

Ah-ha, there's something I hadn't thought of, and might very well be
the answer given the way the ground around the pond is configured.

I've now dug a drainage ditch about 30' uphill from the pond to
prevent runoff getting in and silting up the pond (which also happened
after the big rain).

Changing the ground level immediately uphill from the pond would be a
real pain as there is a stone patio there, do you think I could just
put a layer of rounded pea gravel on the bottom to prevent the bubble
from floating the liner up?

Thanks!
Mike

Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:30:00 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

Mike,

Could you put a stone curb along the edge of the patio to raise the edge and
divert the runoff of the patio away from the pond?

You could put rock in the pond, but I am one of the no rocks in my pond, now
or ever. Rocks can cause real problems for cleaning a pond and give
anaerobic bacteria good places to work on the debris that builds up between
the rocks, giving off hydrogen sulfide which is very toxic to the fish.
Flat slates laid on the bottom would provide the weight, but not the number
of places for the mulm.

I think I'll try moving a few of the patio stones, just enough to dig
a small drainage trench and fill it with pea gravel. Hopefully that,
combined with the new drainage ditch farther up the hill will be
enough to keep most of the water runoff out.

Probably place a few large rounded stones on the bottom as well.

Thanks for the ideas & help from everyone!

Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp

Thanks! Appreciate the thoughts.

I plan to place a few large rounded stones in the bottom and dig a
shallow trench next to the pond. Hopefully the double-whammy approach
will do the trick.

Won't know if it worked until the next flood!
Mike

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:21:23 -0800, "Lydia"
wrote:

Mike,
I'm sorry I don't yet have any advice to help you, but thought I'd just
let you know that I feel your pain. I have the same situation. The liner
of my pond wraps up and over a layer of rocks that are anchoring it - sounds
like yours. Mine's brand new and we just finished it before the winter
rains started here in the Pacific Northwest. And as soon as the rain DID
start, the liner bubbled waaaaay up and I was out there every night in the
rain with a little pump trying to fish a garden hose down under the liner
and pump out the water from underneath. That was no fun so for now, we've
put 3 huge rocks at the bottom and 8, 2x16 patio bricks around the 1foot
deep shelf to hold the liner down. That seems to be working fairly well,
although the liner still puffs a little on the vertical slant from the 1foot
shelf down to the bottom.

We also edged the high edge of the pond with that plastic garden edging
stuff that's about 4 inches wide in an effort to get the runoff from the
upper part of the yard to go around the pond rather than under it. But I'm
afraid of taking the bricks out to see if that made a difference. I don't
like pumping out the water from underneath the liner and I'm afraid that the
shelf is in danger of being ruined when the water collects under there and
swishes dirt around.

When summer returns my husband and I think we're in for more digging to
make some kind of drainage trench near or around the dang thing.

Anyway, it sounds like yours drains a lot quicker than ours so maybe you'll
have an easier time dealing with it. Good luck to you and please post if
you find a good solution!

Lydia



"Mike Patterson" wrote in
message news
On 23 Nov 2003 22:10:15 -0800, (Offbreed)
wrote:

Mike Patterson wrote in
message . ..
I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.

If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a really
heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the
water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW.

Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the
sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the
membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane
stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less
water than before.

Thanks for the idea, but I think that isn't it this time, as the liner
wraps up & over the edges of the pond and are held with large stones
all 'way around.

Thanks
Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp

I realize I'm very late to this conversation... but, early on my liner
bubbled up - there was a huge bubble in the middle and I could
not see anything except muddy water. I went out in the middle of a horrible
Missouri
thunderstorm and dug a trench on the side of the pond that was
caving in. I dug down about 8 inches ... put in a 4 inch drainage
pipe; covered the trench with 2 inch rock and then Tons (!)
slight exaggeration - of large pine bark mulch. This held Thank Goodness.
Once the storms abated, I built up the sides of the pond about
six inches and added
the pine bark mulch. Nine years later - pond is just fine. No more
bubbling of the liner since that first spring.
The first web site is quite old but it shows my pond and the awfully
muddy water.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836

"Mike Patterson" wrote in
message ...
Thanks! Appreciate the thoughts.

I plan to place a few large rounded stones in the bottom and dig a
shallow trench next to the pond. Hopefully the double-whammy approach
will do the trick.

Won't know if it worked until the next flood!
Mike

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:21:23 -0800, "Lydia"
wrote:

Mike,
I'm sorry I don't yet have any advice to help you, but thought I'd
just
let you know that I feel your pain. I have the same situation. The
liner
of my pond wraps up and over a layer of rocks that are anchoring it -
sounds
like yours. Mine's brand new and we just finished it before the winter
rains started here in the Pacific Northwest. And as soon as the rain DID
start, the liner bubbled waaaaay up and I was out there every night in
the
rain with a little pump trying to fish a garden hose down under the liner
and pump out the water from underneath. That was no fun so for now,
we've
put 3 huge rocks at the bottom and 8, 2x16 patio bricks around the 1foot
deep shelf to hold the liner down. That seems to be working fairly well,
although the liner still puffs a little on the vertical slant from the
1foot
shelf down to the bottom.

We also edged the high edge of the pond with that plastic garden
edging
stuff that's about 4 inches wide in an effort to get the runoff from the
upper part of the yard to go around the pond rather than under it. But
I'm
afraid of taking the bricks out to see if that made a difference. I
don't
like pumping out the water from underneath the liner and I'm afraid that
the
shelf is in danger of being ruined when the water collects under there
and
swishes dirt around.

When summer returns my husband and I think we're in for more digging
to
make some kind of drainage trench near or around the dang thing.

Anyway, it sounds like yours drains a lot quicker than ours so maybe
you'll
have an easier time dealing with it. Good luck to you and please post if
you find a good solution!

Lydia



"Mike Patterson" wrote in
message news
On 23 Nov 2003 22:10:15 -0800, (Offbreed)
wrote:

Mike Patterson wrote in
message . ..
I have a 1200 US Gallon pond with an overflow spillway at one end.

If I fill it up, it seems to hold it's level fine, but after a
really
heavy rain (we got about 3 inches in 4 hours a couple days ago), the
water level after the rain was about 3-4 inches LOW.

Over fill and watch around the edges. I'll wager that part of the
sides is not properly supported and the extra water causes the
membrane to flop down. Once the water level drops enough, the membrane
stiffness makes it come back up where it belongs, and you have less
water than before.

Thanks for the idea, but I think that isn't it this time, as the liner
wraps up & over the edges of the pond and are held with large stones
all 'way around.

Thanks
Mike
Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.

The question isn't "are there weapons of mass destruction?",
the question is "who has them now?"

http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/...ny/default.asp
http://www.strategypage.com/iraqwar/iraqweaponsgap.asp