Hello

I am developing a management plan for a landowner who has a 115-acre
property dominated by large-stemmed 140-year old eastern hemlock,
80-year old balsam fir, red maple, yellow birch, and eastern white
cedar.

To promote the establishment of more yellow birch I am going to
suggest removal of balsam fir as they are overmature and dieing. I
know yellow birch requires a moist shaded site to establish, which
this property is. Does it also require soil disturbance to establish?
I think it does because where they have previously harvested there was
no soil disturbance and very little regeneration has taken place even
though canopy was still 70% crown closure.

Thanks

Todd

PS Originally I posted this through my provider but my messages do not
appear hence the google route.

POSTED IN ALT.FORESTRY


"Todd MacPherson" wrote in message
om...
Hello

I am developing a management plan for a landowner who has a 115-acre
property dominated by large-stemmed 140-year old eastern hemlock,
80-year old balsam fir, red maple, yellow birch, and eastern white
cedar.

Where are you? Northern New England, southern Canada?



To promote the establishment of more yellow birch I am going to
suggest removal of balsam fir as they are overmature and dieing.

I'm surprised they got to 80 years. The ones I see usually go bad long
before that.



I know yellow birch requires a moist shaded site to establish,


Not necessarily. I've seen it grow in all kinds of places- what seems to be
most important is moderate shade, such as after a partial cut- and the lack
of competition that it might get further south or lower down the mountain
where other mid shade tolerant or heavy shade tolerant species might
succeed.


which
this property is. Does it also require soil disturbance to establish?

I've seen it grow in after partial cuts on the right sort of soils and I've
seen come in under other trees with no harvesting if some of the overstory
dies off.

I think it does because where they have previously harvested there was
no soil disturbance and very little regeneration has taken place even
though canopy was still 70% crown closure.

Too much crown to get much of anything- although some beech and hemlock
might pop up eventually. Also, there may be heavy deer browsing holding back
any regeneration. As long as there's still a substantial stand, why worry
about regen at this time?

I never even think about regen. I work with whatever is there and there is
always something there to work with. I wouldn't modify the way I mark a
stand in order to bring about some sort of regen condition. I'll mark the
stand to get the most out of the existing stand, and if the existing stands
sucks- I'll mark it heavy or clearcut it- then I'll work with whatever comes
up. I don't think we can really predict what will come up in the east- too
many species and too much chance involved, such as the fact that many forest
floors have vast amounts of seed in them, lying there for years. You might
cut a stand a certain way, leave the overstory you want to act as seed
trees, then get something else - something you can't even find nearby.

I'm always debating this point with other foresters- who all seem overly
worried about regen, even in relatively young stands of good quality. I
think it's one of those things that gets pumped into foresters heads in
forestry school, a place known to cause brain damage. G



Thanks

Todd

PS Originally I posted this through my provider but my messages do not
appear hence the google route.

--
Joe Zorzin
"What Liberal Media" by Erik Alterman
http://www.whatliberalmedia.com

Yes Todd, Every bit of information that I have gotten (personal observations,
other foresters and books) has told me over and over again that yellow birch
needs large amounts of humus and disturbance to regenerate. Also, don't be
scared to remove the fir. I believe that yellow birch regenerates best under a
less than full-canopy environment (probably 75% crown cover or 60 b.a. is very
adequate seed-in conditions). This is based on what I've seen around here in
the glacial loams of Michigan. As Joe mentioned, every region is different.
Around here, it is not unusual to see 80+ year old Yellow birches and some
probably over 100, particularly on the islands in the area.

Good luck,
Geoff

Joe Zorzin wrote:

POSTED IN ALT.FORESTRY

"Todd MacPherson" wrote in message
om...
Hello

I am developing a management plan for a landowner who has a 115-acre
property dominated by large-stemmed 140-year old eastern hemlock,
80-year old balsam fir, red maple, yellow birch, and eastern white
cedar.

Where are you? Northern New England, southern Canada?


To promote the establishment of more yellow birch I am going to
suggest removal of balsam fir as they are overmature and dieing.

I'm surprised they got to 80 years. The ones I see usually go bad long
before that.

I know yellow birch requires a moist shaded site to establish,

Not necessarily. I've seen it grow in all kinds of places- what seems to be
most important is moderate shade, such as after a partial cut- and the lack
of competition that it might get further south or lower down the mountain
where other mid shade tolerant or heavy shade tolerant species might
succeed.

which
this property is. Does it also require soil disturbance to establish?

I've seen it grow in after partial cuts on the right sort of soils and I've
seen come in under other trees with no harvesting if some of the overstory
dies off.

I think it does because where they have previously harvested there was
no soil disturbance and very little regeneration has taken place even
though canopy was still 70% crown closure.

Too much crown to get much of anything- although some beech and hemlock
might pop up eventually. Also, there may be heavy deer browsing holding back
any regeneration. As long as there's still a substantial stand, why worry
about regen at this time?

I never even think about regen. I work with whatever is there and there is
always something there to work with. I wouldn't modify the way I mark a
stand in order to bring about some sort of regen condition. I'll mark the
stand to get the most out of the existing stand, and if the existing stands
sucks- I'll mark it heavy or clearcut it- then I'll work with whatever comes
up. I don't think we can really predict what will come up in the east- too
many species and too much chance involved, such as the fact that many forest
floors have vast amounts of seed in them, lying there for years. You might
cut a stand a certain way, leave the overstory you want to act as seed
trees, then get something else - something you can't even find nearby.

I'm always debating this point with other foresters- who all seem overly
worried about regen, even in relatively young stands of good quality. I
think it's one of those things that gets pumped into foresters heads in
forestry school, a place known to cause brain damage. G


Thanks

Todd

PS Originally I posted this through my provider but my messages do not
appear hence the google route.

--
Joe Zorzin
"What Liberal Media" by Erik Alterman
http://www.whatliberalmedia.com