I was looking at the following web page which lists trees for sale.

http://www.j-bonsai.com/collections.html

Some of the trees are listed as 400, 800 and 1,000 years old. My wife
wanted to know how you could prove that the trees are that old.

Anyone know?

Thanks, John

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In a message dated 2/23/2003 9:29:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

Some of the trees are listed as 400, 800 and 1,000 years old. My wife
wanted to know how you could prove that the trees are that old.

Well, you really can't. You could cut them off four inches up from
the roots and count the rings. That will only tell you growing seasons not
really years. Now some of these are famous Japanese trees and may actually
have a documented history for some or all of the time.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast

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I was looking at the following web page which lists trees for
sale.

http://www.j-bonsai.com/collections.html

Some of the trees are listed as 400, 800 and 1,000 years old.
My wife
wanted to know how you could prove that the trees are that old.

Anyone know?



In some cases -- not many, I'm sure -- the province of a
masterwork tree is known, from owner to owner back into the
distant past -- though 1000 years seems a tad excessive. ;-)

Other cited ages are no more than guestimates (at least for live
trees; someone could kill the tree and do a C14 test, I suppose,
or could have bored a core out of the trunk -- damaging the tree)
and you need to allow for a considerable amount or exaggeration.
Especially for trees that are being offered for sale.

The simple answer is: You can't.

Buyer beware!

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is
frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry
David Thoreau - Walden

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----- Original Message -----
From: "John - NJ"
I was looking at the following web page which lists trees for sale.
http://www.j-bonsai.com/collections.html
Some of the trees are listed as 400, 800 and 1,000 years old. My wife
wanted to know how you could prove that the trees are that old.
Anyone know?
Thanks, John
---------------------

Short of the methods described earlier, no. Further, there is no reason
whatever to do so. On a basic level, it's wholly irrelevant. When bonsai
get into that neighborhood of age, the only reason that the "estimated" ages
are included in descriptions is either to serve as something of an
appellation or as a way of communicating to those who are not familiar with
the trees just how storied and important their pedigree is in the art.
These are merely estimated ages in all but a select few cases. Many
enthusiasts are familiar with these trees and this information is not
offered for them.

If these trees were only 75 years old, but appeared just as they do now,
they'd be no less beautiful. If no one cared to hazard a guess as to their
ages, they'd be no less beautiful. It doesn't matter.

In all cases, when the age of a bonsai is included in a description,
consider the source and then disregard the information for all but
horticultural concerns.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

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RE;' trees reported up to 1000 years old, Andy writes,
If these trees were only 75 years old, but appeared
just as they do now, they'd be no less beautiful. If
no one cared to hazard a guess as to their ages,
they'd be no less beautiful. It doesn't matter.

Of course it matters... it just doesn't reach Andy's level of interest. Who
owned a tree or in whose presence a tree was displayed can also be
important. Recreating the style of an old tree is not comparable to an
object with a significant history.

It matters. The provenance of modern bonsai artists matters, too,
especially for trees typical of their style. We are not removed from
reflection on a well-done bonsai as an artifact of cultural significance
separate from its formal qualities.

In all cases, when the age of a bonsai is included in a
description, consider the source and then disregard
the information for all but horticultural concerns.

...CHUCKLE...

Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane, , Richmond VA USA

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Cochrane"
It matters. The provenance of modern bonsai artists matters, too,
especially for trees typical of their style. We are not removed from
reflection on a well-done bonsai as an artifact of cultural significance
separate from its formal qualities.
Best wishes,
Chris... C. Cochrane
---------------------

Touché. ;-) Of course we're now operating outside of the context of both
the question and my response, but what you say is true, too.

The context was a question from and a response for a beginner. Your
observations, Chris, are astute, just not contextual. But then I'm of the
bent that beginners need to have all but the basics eliminated from their
"diet," which may or may not sit well with others. C'est la vie!. ;-)

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
zone 8, Texas

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