This past winter has taught us about the vagaries of our "zones of hardiness". The zone chart only tells us what to expect as the average lows; not the absolute lows.
Those of us who have been dabbling with marginal trees have learned that lesson the hard way this year. One of my most prized specimens, a Chinese holly, which I've grown as an espalier for 20 years, was lost. It's neighbor of the same species, which had
the protection of a north wall, survived without the loss of a single branch. This experience taught me what marginality really means.
Marty

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Marty,
Your point is well taken. Many of us have used marginally hardy trees,
typically non natives to our areas for bonsai. Only to re-learn the lesson
that the trees that survive the best in your area are already there. They
are the native trees that have grown there over many thousands of years and
adapted to the climates wild swings.
I found this out in yet another way when I visited an experimental arboretum
in Washington last year.
Briefly the trees that survived the best were the ones that were native to
the arboretum. Trees of the same species from just hundreds of miles away
did not survive equally well. For more details you look at my web site at
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/info/Bo...heLongRun.html
By growing non-natives for bonsai we are likely to find out that many trees
that work well for bonsai will die in the long run. Of course we may also
discover that some trees used for bonsai are just survivors and will do well
in many climates.
Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/
This past winter has taught us about the vagaries of our "zones of hardiness".
The zone chart only tells us what to expect as the average lows; not the
absolute lows.
Those of us who have been dabbling with marginal trees have learned that
lesson the hard way this year. One of my most prized specimens, a Chinese
holly, which I've grown as an espalier for 20 years, was lost. It's neighbor
of the same species, which had the protection of a north wall, survived
without the loss of a single branch. This experience taught me what
marginality really means.
Marty

************************************************** ****************************
**
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ****************************
**
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Your conclusions are sad but true. I picked up a Spanish fir a couple of
years ago, knowing about its marginal reliability. Still, it had a
beautiful shape ( I'm a sucker for beautiful shapes), so I bought it. It
did very well for two years. Then came the winter of my sorrow. It's still
alive, but barely hanging on.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Meislik"
To:
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 5:59 PM
Subject: [IBC] winter hardiness


Marty,
Your point is well taken. Many of us have used marginally hardy trees,
typically non natives to our areas for bonsai. Only to re-learn the lesson
that the trees that survive the best in your area are already there. They
are the native trees that have grown there over many thousands of years
and
adapted to the climates wild swings.
I found this out in yet another way when I visited an experimental
arboretum
in Washington last year.
Briefly the trees that survived the best were the ones that were native to
the arboretum. Trees of the same species from just hundreds of miles away
did not survive equally well. For more details you look at my web site at
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/info/Bo...heLongRun.html
By growing non-natives for bonsai we are likely to find out that many
trees
that work well for bonsai will die in the long run. Of course we may also
discover that some trees used for bonsai are just survivors and will do
well
in many climates.
Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/
This past winter has taught us about the vagaries of our "zones of
hardiness".
The zone chart only tells us what to expect as the average lows; not the
absolute lows.
Those of us who have been dabbling with marginal trees have learned that
lesson the hard way this year. One of my most prized specimens, a
Chinese
holly, which I've grown as an espalier for 20 years, was lost. It's
neighbor
of the same species, which had the protection of a north wall, survived
without the loss of a single branch. This experience taught me what
marginality really means.
Marty


************************************************** **************************
**
**
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++

************************************************** **************************
**
**
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/
--
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++



************************************************** **************************
****
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************************************************** **************************
****
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Jerry: There was an interesting (and prescient) article on this recently (11-26-02)
in the the New York Times in a philosophical article titled "A Camellia Grows in
Boston" by Peter Del Tredici, who wrote a history of American bonsai for the Arnold
Arboretum in Boston..
Peter notes that, "If there's one trait that gardeners have in common, it's
a desire to grow plants that experts tell them they shouldn't be able to grow. Be
it bamboo in Boston, evergreen magnolias in New York or tree ferns in Atlanta, the
urge to cultivate something that nobody else in the neighborhood has runs deep.
Whether this passion comes from a need to compete, to experiment or just to be
different is irrelevant. What counts is pushing the limits of possibility and
proving the experts wrong."
The global warming phenomenon has caused some mild "zone creep" and tempted
many of us to exploit the warmer winters our areas have experienced the past few
years. But nothing is certain, and this winter found the northeast USA reverting to
winters of yore.
Alan Walker, Lake Charles, LA, USA
http://LCBSBonsai.org http://bonsai-bci.com
================================
Jerry Meislik wrote:
Marty,
Your point is well taken. Many of us have used marginally hardy trees,
typically non natives to our areas for bonsai. Only to re-learn the lesson
that the trees that survive the best in your area are already there. They
are the native trees that have grown there over many thousands of years and adapted
to the climates wild swings.
I found this out in yet another way when I visited an experimental arboretum in
Washington last year.
Briefly the trees that survived the best were the ones that were native to
the arboretum. Trees of the same species from just hundreds of miles away
did not survive equally well. For more details you look at my web site at
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/info/Bo...heLongRun.html
By growing non-natives for bonsai we are likely to find out that many trees
that work well for bonsai will die in the long run. Of course we may also
discover that some trees used for bonsai are just survivors and will do well
in many climates.
Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/
==============
This past winter has taught us about the vagaries of our "zones of hardiness". The
zone chart only tells us what to expect as the average lows; not the absolute lows.
Those of us who have been dabbling with marginal trees have learned that lesson the
hard way this year. One of my most prized specimens, a Chinese holly, which I've
grown as an espalier for 20 years, was lost. It's neighbor of the same species,
which had the protection of a north wall, survived without the loss of a single
branch. This experience taught me what marginality really means.
Marty

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Alan,
Perhaps the "failing" is that humanity itself is always pushing the limits.
Maybe that¹s is why we are such a successful and invasive species.
Sorry about the philosophy.
I think we should not be surprised to find that many of the trees that we
currently use for bonsai will not stand the test of time - in the long run.
The Chinese and Japanese have had a much longer time to weed out the trees
that did not work out. The ones that were successful are the ones we see in
their picture books.
Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/
Jerry: There was an interesting (and prescient) article on this recently
(11-26-02)
in the the New York Times in a philosophical article titled "A Camellia Grows
in
Boston" by Peter Del Tredici, who wrote a history of American bonsai for the
Arnold
Arboretum in Boston..
Peter notes that, "If there's one trait that gardeners have in common,
it's
a desire to grow plants that experts tell them they shouldn't be able to grow.
Be
it bamboo in Boston, evergreen magnolias in New York or tree ferns in Atlanta,
the
urge to cultivate something that nobody else in the neighborhood has runs
deep.
Whether this passion comes from a need to compete, to experiment or just to be
different is irrelevant. What counts is pushing the limits of possibility and
proving the experts wrong."
The global warming phenomenon has caused some mild "zone creep" and
tempted
many of us to exploit the warmer winters our areas have experienced the past
few
years. But nothing is certain, and this winter found the northeast USA
reverting to
winters of yore.
Alan Walker, Lake Charles, LA, USA
http://LCBSBonsai.org http://bonsai-bci.com
================================
Jerry Meislik wrote:
Marty,
Your point is well taken. Many of us have used marginally hardy trees,
typically non natives to our areas for bonsai. Only to re-learn the lesson
that the trees that survive the best in your area are already there. They
are the native trees that have grown there over many thousands of years and
adapted
to the climates wild swings.
I found this out in yet another way when I visited an experimental arboretum
in
Washington last year.
Briefly the trees that survived the best were the ones that were native to
the arboretum. Trees of the same species from just hundreds of miles away
did not survive equally well. For more details you look at my web site at
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/info/Bo...heLongRun.html
By growing non-natives for bonsai we are likely to find out that many trees
that work well for bonsai will die in the long run. Of course we may also
discover that some trees used for bonsai are just survivors and will do well
in many climates.
Jerry Meislik

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++