Nice Potentilla article in the summer ABS Bonsai Journal, but as
for the bulk of the issue, I think we need to re-name ABS to
American Bonsai Collector's Society (ABC).

One of the collecting articles includes a telling paragraph (near
the end) about post-war Japanese collectors in the American west:

" . . . . some areas are totally cleaned out, and one can find an
area where there should be trees but the pockets are empty. . .
.."

I have seen the effects of over collecting in other rocky
areas -- including protected areas -- out west and in the North
Carolina mountains. Trees simply do NOT grow back in these
environmentally stressed areas, but collectors don't give a damn.
It is, I think, a terrible indictment of bonsai collectors, and
ABS is promoting collecting in these wild areas more and more --
to the point where they're raffling off trips with collectors at
their meeting this year -- the rape, pillage, and plunder raffle.
:-(

Oh well, nothing _I_ can do about it but rant.

As far as the rest of the issue goes, I truly enjoyed the article
and pictures about the Pacific Rim's "Artful Environments"
exhibit and wish others would do the same. Otherwise, there were
the usual plethora of typos and typesetting mistakes, and a final
picture that is NOT an alligator juniper, but is a repeat of the
previous pic (but larger) of a plant that was never mentioned in
the article.

Sigh . . .

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - who did not
renew his ABS membership this year, but who keeps getting the
magazine so probably shouldn't knock a freebie?????

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I'm a newby to bonsai and just joined the ABS last month. The summer edition of
the journal arrived last week and, like you, I was amazed that the
editor/publisher would publicize and encourage collection of 200-300 year old
dwarfed specimens in environmentally stressed areas like the Southwest. Yes, I
know that these guys have all the necessary permits and permissions, but I don't
think that justifies this rape of part of our national and natural heritages.
Page 45 of the same issue mentions a new book by Thomas Pakenham in which he
states that he *loathes* bonsai. After reading the preceeding articles on
collection, I can understand why he feels this way.

I have no problem with collecting cuttings and seedlings in the wild. There are
lots of coast live oak and California black walnut out here and I would love to
collect cuttings from these. IIRC both of these species are protected and so I'm
out of luck unless I can find a cooperative landowner who will give the
necessary permission. But I don't intend to uproot scarce trees to satisfy my
bonsai craving. I can get the same amount of pleasure working with nursery
stock.

Ray Schmitt
Aliso Viejo, CA
Hardiness Zone 11


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 1:41 PM
Subject: [IBC] Bonsai Journal - Summer (Mostly a RANT)


Nice Potentilla article in the summer ABS Bonsai Journal, but as
for the bulk of the issue, I think we need to re-name ABS to
American Bonsai Collector's Society (ABC).

One of the collecting articles includes a telling paragraph (near
the end) about post-war Japanese collectors in the American west:

" . . . . some areas are totally cleaned out, and one can find an
area where there should be trees but the pockets are empty. . .
."

I have seen the effects of over collecting in other rocky
areas -- including protected areas -- out west and in the North
Carolina mountains. Trees simply do NOT grow back in these
environmentally stressed areas, but collectors don't give a damn.
It is, I think, a terrible indictment of bonsai collectors, and
ABS is promoting collecting in these wild areas more and more --
to the point where they're raffling off trips with collectors at
their meeting this year -- the rape, pillage, and plunder raffle.
:-(

Oh well, nothing _I_ can do about it but rant.

As far as the rest of the issue goes, I truly enjoyed the article
and pictures about the Pacific Rim's "Artful Environments"
exhibit and wish others would do the same. Otherwise, there were
the usual plethora of typos and typesetting mistakes, and a final
picture that is NOT an alligator juniper, but is a repeat of the
previous pic (but larger) of a plant that was never mentioned in
the article.

Sigh . . .

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - who did not
renew his ABS membership this year, but who keeps getting the
magazine so probably shouldn't knock a freebie?????


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++

************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

As one of the "collect with collectors" authors for this issue, and an ABS
member, I feel I should respond a bit.

My article on collecting wild hackberrys and winged elms in Tulsa , Ok. with
Pat Coen/Mikle Finnigan was from personal experience this earely spring.
They found ( observed) these trees growing on a farmers cattle range and
approached him about collecting. He was glad to get rid of them and they
enjoy a great relationship with him which includes gifts of tasty food
items as thanks. The holes are immediately filled upon collecting. At the
speed which they can be collected they will be there MMMAANNNYYY years just
collecting off one tiny area of this ranchers personal property.

As for collecting with Jim Doyle, the collecting is done on HIS OWN PROPERTY
at his nursery! from stock amongst overgrown old fields. I guess I don't
need to defend that any more!

I can't speak for the others collectors arrangements.

If this raffle works out well I thought of joining in the next time with a
collecting trip locally for Taxus from one of my favorite sites. I simply
pay the land owner to hand dig some of his trees.

As with most rants....this one wasn't thought out well. ( believe me....I
recognize one not thought out well! :)

The comment about "cleaned out areas" was a bit out of context with the rest
of the statement. What "was" is past,..... what is "now" is important.
Regards,
Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery
ABS Board of Directors



..----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
Subject: [IBC] Bonsai Journal - Summer (Mostly a RANT)


Nice Potentilla article in the summer ABS Bonsai Journal, but as
for the bulk of the issue, I think we need to re-name ABS to
American Bonsai Collector's Society (ABC).

One of the collecting articles includes a telling paragraph (near
the end) about post-war Japanese collectors in the American west:

" . . . . some areas are totally cleaned out, and one can find an
area where there should be trees but the pockets are empty. . .
."

I have seen the effects of over collecting in other rocky
areas -- including protected areas -- out west and in the North
Carolina mountains. Trees simply do NOT grow back in these
environmentally stressed areas, but collectors don't give a damn.
It is, I think, a terrible indictment of bonsai collectors, and
ABS is promoting collecting in these wild areas more and more --
to the point where they're raffling off trips with collectors at
their meeting this year -- the rape, pillage, and plunder raffle.
:-(

Oh well, nothing _I_ can do about it but rant.
Sigh . . .

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - who did not
renew his ABS membership this year, but who keeps getting the
magazine so probably shouldn't knock a freebie?????

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

As one of the "collect with collectors" authors for this issue,
and an ABS
member, I feel I should respond a bit.

My article on collecting wild hackberrys and winged elms in
Tulsa , Ok. with
Pat Coen/Mikle Finnigan was from personal experience this
earely spring.
They found ( observed) these trees growing on a farmers cattle
range and
approached him about collecting. He was glad to get rid of them
and they
enjoy a great relationship with him which includes gifts of
tasty food
items as thanks. The holes are immediately filled upon
collecting. At the
speed which they can be collected they will be there
MMMAANNNYYY years just
collecting off one tiny area of this ranchers personal
property.

As for collecting with Jim Doyle, the collecting is done on HIS
OWN PROPERTY
at his nursery! from stock amongst overgrown old fields. I
guess I don't
need to defend that any more!


I was gonna leave my rant to speak for itself, but . . .

If you recall MY collecting article some months ago (Winter
2000), I am NOT against collecting trees from suitable
locations -- and hackberry and winged elm grow almost exclusively
in those locations, they are little more than weeds and reproduce
quickly and easily. As you note, they survive even after hefty
grazing by livestock.

Nor, Dale, did I even reference your article or Jim Doyle's. I
collect from MY property, too. I do NOT collect from
environmentall sensitive property -- as virtually all of the
rocky, western collecting sites with the aged, rugged, and
weatherbeaten trees are. So, I DO have a major problem with
people who collect in the arid west, where those cleaned out
areas are STILL cleaned out ater the pasage of more than 50
years, and still will be empty after another 100 have passed.
Desert lands are unforgiving.

I can't speak for the others collectors arrangements.

If this raffle works out well I thought of joining in the next
time with a
collecting trip locally for Taxus from one of my favorite
sites. I simply
pay the land owner to hand dig some of his trees.

As with most rants....this one wasn't thought out well. (
believe me....I
recognize one not thought out well! :)

I have been thinking about this RANT since the spring issue of
ABS and -- as you know, Dale, this is NOT a new position for me.
After my article on the Ethics of Collecting appeared in the ABS
Journal a few winters ago, I got e-mails from 4 western
collectors who said they collect when and where and what they
want to collect. Period -- that government land (includiing
protected land) was THEIR land and EFFF the regulations . . . .
I got other emails (still from the west) which would not want to
be repeated on a family Listserv.


The comment about "cleaned out areas" was a bit out of context
with the rest
of the statement. What "was" is past,..... what is "now" is
important.

Uh uh. The "now" is still now. In the last 25 years I have been
to two areas in the southern N.C. moutains (one a park, the other
Forest Service recreation area -- both protected) and have seen
recently emptied potholes in bare knobs (not even replaced
soil -- in once case it lay scattered around the empty holes, and
there was a crumpled beer can (Milwaukee's Best!) in one of
them). These were in places where _I_ would be terrified to
climb out to, tho I have such a terrible fear of heights, that
that's not saying much. These, coupled with the bragging taunts
that I received after my article, coupled with the near total
lack of any warnings about getting permission or permits in these
recent articles, and a series of collecting articles in another
of the bonsai magazines _several_ years ago where the authors
bragged about how many trees they'd collected on a
several-day-trip in the Rockies (I ranted about those, too), as
well as some complaints that I received from folks out west about
the raffle are sufficient indication to me that little has
changed. I saw old colleted sites in New Mexico in the late 90s.
These prompted my article about the little J. monosperma and my
fictional philosophical maunderings about whether to collect it
or not.

I'll close my rants on this subject with the plea (as I closed my
article): "Some say that every story should end with a moral.
This one ends with a plea for collectes of bonsai: That they
themeslves be moral. Collect, by all means, but before you
collect, think about it -- and if you can see any reason that a
given tree might better be left where it is, then leave it."
(ABS Journal, Winter 2000)

Nuff

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - "We smile at
the ignorance of the savage who cuts down the tree in order to
reach its fruit; but the same blunder is made by every person who
is over eager and impatient in the pursuit of pleasure." -
William Channing

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++