John -

Welcome.

You would do well to avoid bonsai "kits" and mass-market bonsai, known in these
parts as "mallsai." Instead, go to your local garden center and buy a gallon size
landscape plant that you can train yourself. The money you save will be enough to
buy a book on bonsai, or better yet, to pay for membership in a local club if there
is one.

What is easiest to take care of depends on your climate and other factors such as
whether or not you have a good outside place to overwinter a hardy tree (like a
juniper) or indoor conditions that might favor a tropical, like ficus (fig, also
available at many garden centers). It would help if you let us know a bit more
about your particular situation.

Your best bet is to learn as much as you can, from this list, from a club, from
books, and by working with trees. Check the library at your college - I'm sure
there will be at least a couple of books on the subject.

Good luck, and I hope this helps.

Jay


John wrote:

Hi all, I've been reading lots of info in here and I've decided that I
would like to try to have a bonsai tree.

I think I want something that I can put on my outside window seal
during the day and take inside during the night. I was thinking maybe
the typical beginner Juniper.(I like the flowering bonsai's too, but
those are probably harder to take care of, especially for a college
student right?).

anyways, there is a bonsai kit online here
http://www.bonsaiboy.com/catalog/bonsai-starter.html that looks sort
of interesting. They say the juniper is about 3-4 years old and I was
just wondering (I've been looking at a lot of older Junipers) If I can
'sculpt, form, make' whatever you wanna say, the tree into a curve
trunk, or is that just natural with some of these trees.

if anyone has any other ideas where I can buy a decent bonsai kit, or
juniper for not that much(my mom may already kill me for buying a
bonsai) I would be very very very appreciative :-)...

I am really interested in bonsai...

thanks

John

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--
Peace, n. In international affairs, a period of cheating between two periods of
fighting.

Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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John:

Welcome to the forum. The first thing you need to understand is that
there are indoor and outdoor trees. Depending on where you live, most
outdoor trees MUST be kept outside and must be allowed to go dormant in
the winter, which means somewhere protected but cold. I keep mine in an
unheated garage (Zone 5-6). Keeping an outdoor tree inside, even during
the night will not be good for the tree and may even kill it. Keeping
an outdoor tree in a warm indoor location for winter and not allowing it
to go dormant will ultimately kill it.

Indoor trees are typically tropical trees like ficus. Most of these
trees can be kept indoors all year, although I even put my indoor trees
outside in the summer.

In my area and most others a Juniper is an outdoor tree. I keep my
juniper outside day and night and in winter they stay in my unheated
garage. Your choice to buy a Juniper is a good starting point, however
I'd recommend you pick one up locally instead of going mail order. I
have no experience with the company you chose, however by buying your
tree locally you'll save shipping, you'll get a tree that is hardy in
your area and you'll pay a much lower price for a much better tree and
not put it through the stress of shipping. I'd check out Lowe's, Home
Depot or Wal-Mart depending on where you are. They have a great
selection of several different types of junipers starting as low as
$4.99. Look for one with an interesting trunk and healthy foliage.
This will allow you to work on a tree that you can afford to kill and
you will kill a few.

Tools and other supplies are available from many of the vendors on-line.
There are many great vendors that support this forum that will have
everything you need. I'd start simple and get a small pair or concave
cutters, some wire (maybe #1 and #2) and a book or two. Eventually you
can purchase a pot or two and buy or make your own soil.

I learned a lot by watching the pictures in the photo portion of this
forum and reading some books. You'll make mistakes at first, you'll
ruin trees at first and you'll even kill trees. We all do that no
matter how long we've been working at this. For me I never consider it
a mistake to ruin or kill a tree unless I didn't learn something in the
process. I had some horrible trees my first year that turned into
pretty interesting trees in my 2nd year.

It's a long slow learning process but I guarantee you'll love every
minute of it. If you have the space I found it best to have several
trees to spread out my bonsai-energy so I didn't work too much on any
one tree.

If you read a few books you'll find that now is not the best time to
prune, however I never follow the rules UNLESS it involves an expensive
tree. With a $4.99 juniper I'd prune whenever I wanted to. Just be
aware of the risks of pruning now.

As far as other trees check out your local nurseries and home centers.
Buy the ones you like. You'll buy some crappy trees at first but
gradually you'll get better at choosing a tree, keeping in mind things
like proportion, and trunk taper.

No matter what you do have fun with it, enjoy the learning process,
learn from your mistakes and don't be afraid to test the "rules" every
so often. I killed a few in the process but some of my best trees went
from full 2-gallon landscape trees to a tiny pot and full pruning in one
late summer day. The rules would say this is a huge mistake and it
probably was but there is no law in bonsai, only guidelines. You have
to learn the boundaries and techniques on your own. If you do have a
local bonsai society consider joining or at least attending a meeting or
two.

I'm sure this is more than you wanted to hear, but if not I and others
on the list would be happy to answer any other questions you come up
with.

Enjoy,
wmcorcor

== -----Original Message-----
== From: John ]
== Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 6:44 PM
== To:
== Subject: [IBC] Another beginner to Bonsai(help?)
==
== Hi all, I've been reading lots of info in here and I've decided that
I
== would like to try to have a bonsai tree.
==
== I think I want something that I can put on my outside window seal
== during the day and take inside during the night. I was thinking
maybe
== the typical beginner Juniper.(I like the flowering bonsai's too, but
== those are probably harder to take care of, especially for a college
== student right?).
==
== anyways, there is a bonsai kit online here
== http://www.bonsaiboy.com/catalog/bonsai-starter.html that looks sort
== of interesting. They say the juniper is about 3-4 years old and I
was
== just wondering (I've been looking at a lot of older Junipers) If I
can
== 'sculpt, form, make' whatever you wanna say, the tree into a curve
== trunk, or is that just natural with some of these trees.
==
== if anyone has any other ideas where I can buy a decent bonsai kit,
or
== juniper for not that much(my mom may already kill me for buying a
== bonsai) I would be very very very appreciative :-)...
==
== I am really interested in bonsai...
==
== thanks
==
== John
==
==
************************************************** **********************
== ********
== ++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
==
************************************************** **********************
== ********
== -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/
--
==
== +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
== +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
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"Corcoran. Bil" wrote in message
news:96A100189C3E2146ACC218C4D7A53DF016CCE4F4@ms02 .kings.edu...
The first thing you need to understand is that
there are indoor and outdoor trees.

Which are indoor ones?

Thanks Bill ..... this is a keeper

I nominate you as the official "Newbie Responder"
Every time someone posts a "How do I get started" post I suggest you send
them off this note.
It'll certainly save the rest of us a lot of typing !!


Mark Hill - Mechanicsburg, PA - Zone 6


-----Original Message-----
From: Internet Bonsai Club ] On Behalf Of
Corcoran. Bil
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 9:32 AM
To:
Subject: [IBC] Another beginner to Bonsai(help?)

John:

Welcome to the forum .........

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Which are indoor ones?


Whee haw, you're stepping into a pile of worms with that question.
There is no such thing as an "indoor plant"; just plants that can
tolerate indoor conditions better than others.

In the middle ages, there were cloister gardens, where, enclosed by
the four wings of the monastery, monks kept figs, oranges, and herbs
in climates they otherwise could not survive. The plants had shelter
from cold, but plenty of sun and ambient humidity. The plants kept
by the Victorians, parlor palms, orange trees, camellias, heather,
were plants that needed fair amounts of light, high humidity, and
coolish conditions. But Victorians had no central heating or
cooling, and their "conservatories" were designed for high light.
Today, if you examine plants that do well indoors, such as african
violets, philodendron, figs, and prayer plants, you will discover
that they are mostly plants adapted to the understory of tropical
rain forests. That is, they can survive in warm, dim conditions,
such as are characteristic of the modern house.

So: an indoor plant is a plant that will live under the conditions
you provide for it. It all depends on the "indoor". If you have a
glassed-in porch or some other good environment, you can grow
serissa, natal plum, orange jasmine, olive, gardenia, camellia, figs,
and so on. If you have a north-facing windowsill, you may be limited
to a raggedy geranium.
--
Nina Shishkoff

Frederick, MD

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--- Nina Shishkoff wrote:


Which are indoor ones?


Whee haw, you're stepping into a pile of worms with
that question.
There is no such thing as an "indoor plant"; just
plants that can
tolerate indoor conditions better than others.

In the middle ages, there were cloister gardens,
where, enclosed by
the four wings of the monastery, monks kept figs,
oranges, and herbs
in climates they otherwise could not survive. The
plants had shelter
from cold, but plenty of sun and ambient humidity.
The plants kept
by the Victorians, parlor palms, orange trees,
camellias, heather,
were plants that needed fair amounts of light, high
humidity, and
coolish conditions. But Victorians had no central
heating or
cooling, and their "conservatories" were designed
for high light.
Today, if you examine plants that do well indoors,
such as african
violets, philodendron, figs, and prayer plants, you
will discover
that they are mostly plants adapted to the
understory of tropical
rain forests. That is, they can survive in warm,
dim conditions,
such as are characteristic of the modern house.

So: an indoor plant is a plant that will live under
the conditions
you provide for it. It all depends on the "indoor".
If you have a
glassed-in porch or some other good environment, you
can grow
serissa, natal plum, orange jasmine, olive,
gardenia, camellia, figs,
and so on. If you have a north-facing windowsill,
you may be limited
to a raggedy geranium.
--
Nina Shishkoff

Frederick, MD


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++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page
++++

************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Sorry about that last one, I pushed the button too
soon.

Actually a geranium is not a bad plant for practicing
bonsai. It takes a lot of pruning and will pop out
readily from internodes. Some of them get very woody.
I don't think they would wire well though.

Kitsune Miko
--- Nina Shishkoff wrote:


Which are indoor ones?


Whee haw, you're stepping into a pile of worms with
that question.
There is no such thing as an "indoor plant"; just
plants that can
tolerate indoor conditions better than others.

In the middle ages, there were cloister gardens,
where, enclosed by
the four wings of the monastery, monks kept figs,
oranges, and herbs
in climates they otherwise could not survive. The
plants had shelter
from cold, but plenty of sun and ambient humidity.
The plants kept
by the Victorians, parlor palms, orange trees,
camellias, heather,
were plants that needed fair amounts of light, high
humidity, and
coolish conditions. But Victorians had no central
heating or
cooling, and their "conservatories" were designed
for high light.
Today, if you examine plants that do well indoors,
such as african
violets, philodendron, figs, and prayer plants, you
will discover
that they are mostly plants adapted to the
understory of tropical
rain forests. That is, they can survive in warm,
dim conditions,
such as are characteristic of the modern house.

So: an indoor plant is a plant that will live under
the conditions
you provide for it. It all depends on the "indoor".
If you have a
glassed-in porch or some other good environment, you
can grow
serissa, natal plum, orange jasmine, olive,
gardenia, camellia, figs,
and so on. If you have a north-facing windowsill,
you may be limited
to a raggedy geranium.
--
Nina Shishkoff

Frederick, MD


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page
++++

************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Actually a geranium is not a bad plant for practicing
bonsai. It takes a lot of pruning and will pop out
readily from internodes. Some of them get very woody.
I don't think they would wire well though.

Kitsune Miko

Jim Doyle sells a cultivar of geranium (anyone know which?) that has
woody stems and leaves like Acer japonicum (half-moon maple). It's
really cool!

As for "raggedy", I was thinking of the geranium that sat in my
father's office for a surprising number of years: it was two feet
long tall and had 3 leaves.
--
Nina Shishkoff

Frederick, MD

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++++Sponsored, in part, by Mike Page ++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

"Nina Shishkoff" wrote in message
news


Which are indoor ones?


Whee haw, you're stepping into a pile of worms with that question.
There is no such thing as an "indoor plant"; just plants that can
tolerate indoor conditions better than others.

Voice of reason. Thanks, Nina. That's what I was getting at.

Plants evolved millions of years before something we call "indoors" came
into being. Taking that into account, "outdoors" means a large number of
_conditions_. Light first. With few exceptions, a vast majority of
plants are "green", that is they photosynthesize: produce their own food
using energy provided by light. Not any light. Sunlight. Which, thanks
to modern science, is not exclusive to Sun anymore. Similarly, we can
simulate other (outdoor) conditions: temperature, moisture, wind,
precipitation, microorganisms, other plants & animals, you name it.
Bottomline: with some effort, _EVERY_ plant can be grown indoors.
Resulting, of course, in an environment we wouldn't call a "living room"
anymore. It would be a simulation of a particular "outdoors".

In the middle ages, there were cloister gardens, where, enclosed by
the four wings of the monastery, monks kept figs, oranges, and herbs
in climates they otherwise could not survive. The plants had shelter
from cold, but plenty of sun and ambient humidity. The plants kept
by the Victorians, parlor palms, orange trees, camellias, heather,
were plants that needed fair amounts of light, high humidity, and
coolish conditions. But Victorians had no central heating or
cooling, and their "conservatories" were designed for high light.
Today, if you examine plants that do well indoors, such as african
violets, philodendron, figs, and prayer plants, you will discover
that they are mostly plants adapted to the understory of tropical
rain forests. That is, they can survive in warm, dim conditions,
such as are characteristic of the modern house.

So: an indoor plant is a plant that will live under the conditions
you provide for it.

Exactly! However, most temperate plants can't live "under the same roof"
with us. We're not prepared to live under the conditions they demand.
Those conditions, on the other hand, are not so strict as some people
want us to believe. Quite a few genera / species of temperate plants can
be grown on ordinary windowsills (inside!) all year round. They might
not make superb bonsai, they might not even thrive, but they live. A few
of them are quite happy with our living room conditions and can be made
into quality bonsai.

It all depends on the "indoor". If you have a
glassed-in porch or some other good environment, you can grow
serissa, natal plum, orange jasmine, olive, gardenia, camellia, figs,
and so on. If you have a north-facing windowsill, you may be limited
to a raggedy geranium.

And now... a wish (for everyone in this NG and on IBC): please don't
dismiss people asking which trees they can grow inside with a short and
definitive "they'll all die". Because it simply isn't true. Provided
that certain conditions are met, they can even be made into decent
bonsai. And since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, even more so.

"Jim Lewis" wrote in message
news:001a01c35627$dab95c40$c5112cc7@pavilion...

And now... a wish (for everyone in this NG and on IBC): please
don't
dismiss people asking which trees they can grow inside with a
short and
definitive "they'll all die". Because it simply isn't true.
Provided
that certain conditions are met, they can even be made into
decent
bonsai. And since beauty is in the eye of the beholder, even
more so.

Hmmm.

You have to consider, of course, that 99.999% of these "indoor
tree" questions come from rank newcomers to the bonsai world.
Ninety percent of THESE may have grown a Philodendron at some
time in their lives, but little else. Given those kinds of
givens (and it is easy to tell when you have one of these folks),
the answer that a juniper will die when kept inside verges on
prophesy.

I agree. But...

I don't know about you, but I like to know the reason behind such
claims ("they'll all die"). And the reason is not "because they're not
indoor trees".