Hi
I have read on here much about what zone they are in how do I find out
what zone I am in.
I live in Nottingham England.

Hi John,

Hardiness zones are a U.S. thing, as far as is discussed here. There is a
map of European zones at
http://www.uk.gardenweb.com/forums/zones/hze.html , but the numbers there
don't really correspond to the climates that are referred to in the U.S.
zones. For instance, Most of England apprears on this map to be in zone 9
or 10. In the U.S., that is tropical. ;-)

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.bonsai365.com/
zone 8, Texas

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Foster"
Hi
I have read on here much about what zone they are in how do I find out
what zone I am in.
I live in Nottingham England.

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Good point, Andy.

Just for the fun of it, I was trying to play around with the idea of just
what US zone or area was closest to England for hardiness.

I know it's south of New Jersey (6/7)!

Regards,

Bart
----- Original Message -----

Hardiness zones are a U.S. thing, as far as is discussed here. There is a
map of European zones at
http://www.uk.gardenweb.com/forums/zones/hze.html , but the numbers there
don't really correspond to the climates that are referred to in the U.S.
zones. For instance, Most of England apprears on this map to be in zone 9
or 10. In the U.S., that is tropical. ;-)

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Andy Rutledge wrote:

Hi John,

Hardiness zones are a U.S. thing, as far as is discussed here. There is a
map of European zones at
http://www.uk.gardenweb.com/forums/zones/hze.html , but the numbers there
don't really correspond to the climates that are referred to in the U.S.
zones. For instance, Most of England apprears on this map to be in zone 9
or 10. In the U.S., that is tropical. ;-)

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.bonsai365.com/
zone 8, Texas

Very true, and even in the US I am told there is a difference in climate between
USDA Zone 5 in the eastern US and out west. That is what makes the Sunset zones a
useful addendum.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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It's not the average temp. that counts: it's the mean LOW.
Therefore, an area can have an average temp. 5 degrees colder than another,
yet have moderating factors at the low end. (Proximity to the ocean,
protection by mountains, gulf stream effect, etc.). That's why they can
have palm trees growing in Cornwall, England, and fuchsia growing as a
perenniel in London.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bart Thomas"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 9:36 AM
Subject: [IBC] Zone


Good point, Andy.

Just for the fun of it, I was trying to play around with the idea of just
what US zone or area was closest to England for hardiness.

I know it's south of New Jersey (6/7)!

Regards,

Bart
----- Original Message -----

Hardiness zones are a U.S. thing, as far as is discussed here. There is
a
map of European zones at
http://www.uk.gardenweb.com/forums/zones/hze.html , but the numbers
there
don't really correspond to the climates that are referred to in the U.S.
zones. For instance, Most of England apprears on this map to be in zone
9
or 10. In the U.S., that is tropical. ;-)


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****
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****
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

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Actually, most of the UK is shown on this map as Zone 8 with only the
small areas moderated by North Atlantic Drift showing as Zone 9.
Thankfully I'm in 9 on the North Wales coast and can grow many
subtropicals outdoors and tropicals with minimal frost protection.

Cheers

Kev Bailey
Vale Of Clwyd, North Wales

Most of England apprears on this map to be in zone 9
or 10. In the U.S., that is tropical. ;-)



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Very true, and even in the US I am told there is a difference
in climate between
USDA Zone 5 in the eastern US and out west. That is what makes
the Sunset zones a
useful addendum.


The Sunset zones are far superior to the USDA zones. USDA merely
takes the average coldest temperature for a region, so determines
the potential winter hardiness of a plant.

The Sunset zones attempt to take in cold as well as hot, then add
the rainfall (or lack) to it, wave a wand and come up with a real
environmental zone that tells the real limits of where a plant
will best GROW.

Even the Southern Living Magazine system is better than USDA.

Perhaps, if the USDA and the Am. Horticultural Society could get
together -- merging the USDA hardiness with the AHS heat zones --
we'd have a really good system. As it stands now, you have to do
a LOT of reading between the lines, and you have to know your
plant.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - The phrase
'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron. - Stephen Viederman

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Dear John and list-friends:

I think there's a little confusion here about USDA zones. Maybe *more*
than a little confusion Most every comment or question in this
discussion could have been dispensed with by just appreciating the
definition.

For clarity, let's give the "zones" their full name for a moment:

USDA Hardiness Zones.

That's all they a cold hardiness zones, period! If a single number
is given for a plant, that's "the coldest zone in which it normally
succeeds" (from the USDA website
http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/index.html).

The zones are labeled by the average annual minimum temperatures.
That's "average", as in, occasionally it gets lower, or may not get
that low every year. And "minimum", as in how low (cold) the
temperature gets. It says NOTHING about how warm that area gets, or
how much rainfall, or wind, or anything else. It's not trying to

It is NOT a "climate" zone, as several responders here have tried to
make it. It was never intended to be, and other zone systems (such as
Sunset's) do a good job of that. That doesn't make them "superior",
they're made for different purposes. Would you say a 2-door sports
coupe is inferior to a 2-ton pickup truck, because it can't tow a
4-horse trailer?? (well, Jim and I might, but then we have critters!)

And while the USDA zones were developed for North America, the concept
is just as applicable to any other geographical area, like Europe. The
map Andy kindly pointed John to at
http://www.uk.gardenweb.com/forums/zones/hze.html
uses *exactly* the same definition of hardiness zones as the USDA's.
And most of England is in zone 8 (sorry Andy, look closer!), not to
say it's tropical in climate, but has mild winter temperatures.

Why does any bonsai grower (in the US or elsewhere) care about USDA
zones? It's a piece of info often available in books, catalogs, or on
the Web for woody plants, and it's relevant for deciding how to
protect your trees in the winter. And it's ONE factor in determining
whether a plant is likely to do well in your area. No need to read
between the lines, Jim, just take the hardiness zone for what it's
meant to be, and ADD other information you get about a plant to it.
"Hardiness ratings alone are inadequate to guide landscapers in
selecting the most successful plants" (the USDA website again).

Sorry, getting down off my soapbox now

Anita "Professor" Hawkins
Northern Harford County, Maryland, USDA zone 6
Go forth under the open sky, and list
To Nature's teachings.
- William Cullen Bryant

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