Greetings All,

Thanks to Khaimraj for his encouraging note on black pines in the true
tropics.

I started a thread on the gallery awhile ago that reflected my frustration
as well as my tenacity at trying to keep JBP bonsais alive in the Dallas, TX
area (Zone 8b). Several tried to encourage me to keep trying. Ernie Kuo,
based on his knowledge of the area and the experience of other Dallas
enthusiasts with JBP, encouraged me to try other species. That kind of
encouragement should be (and is!) taken very seriously.

Still, I look around the landscape in Dallas and I see JBP's thriving in
Dallas' heavy, alkaline black clay soil and everything else that goes along
with the environment here. Could one of the primary factors that lead
enthusiasts in tropical or other warm climates to despair over JBP's be that
summer temperatures cook the roots in unshaded/unprotected pots?

For the last two years I have buried two black pines in the ground in their
growing pots during the spring and summer. One of them is an older tree,
about 3 inches in diameter; the other is one purchased in a 1 gallon nursery
container and is about 1 inch in diameter. The holes were no wider than the
containers, but dug deep enough that I could put gravel in the bottom to
insure drainage. It seems that these two trees are my healthiest pines. In
fact they are the ones I've had the longest.

The most common result I have with JBP's is that they get a kind of worm
infestation in the new shoots in July and August and die-- from pine tip
moths or borers or something. Because there are healthy trees around,
planted in the ground or buried like the two mentioned above, I'm guessing
that my dead trees succumbed because of stress. Am I on the right track?


Blessings,

Tim Ahlen
Dallas, TX
Zone 8b

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Am I on the right track? asks Tim.

Yes, I believe you are. JBP candle tip borer is decimating the species all
over the country. I've been growing them on Long Island for 50 years.
Because I've been giving them good treatment, I haven't lost any. My
garden abuts a park in which JBP were planted 30 years ago.
ALL of them are now gone from the park, but mine continue to flourish.
Reason? you guessed it - weakened trees are much more suceptible to the
borer than healthy ones. Keep them in the sun, feed them once in awhile,
keep them well pruned, water them during droughts, and you'll do fine. One
more thing. If you see white fuzzy or bubbly material on your branch tips,
spray them repeatedly with soapy water. That will suffocate the little
devils.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Ahlen"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:29 PM
Subject: [IBC] Black Pine about 700 mile north of the true Tropics


Greetings All,

Thanks to Khaimraj for his encouraging note on black pines in the true
tropics.

I started a thread on the gallery awhile ago that reflected my frustration
as well as my tenacity at trying to keep JBP bonsais alive in the Dallas,
TX
area (Zone 8b). Several tried to encourage me to keep trying. Ernie Kuo,
based on his knowledge of the area and the experience of other Dallas
enthusiasts with JBP, encouraged me to try other species. That kind of
encouragement should be (and is!) taken very seriously.

Still, I look around the landscape in Dallas and I see JBP's thriving in
Dallas' heavy, alkaline black clay soil and everything else that goes
along
with the environment here. Could one of the primary factors that lead
enthusiasts in tropical or other warm climates to despair over JBP's be
that
summer temperatures cook the roots in unshaded/unprotected pots?

For the last two years I have buried two black pines in the ground in
their
growing pots during the spring and summer. One of them is an older tree,
about 3 inches in diameter; the other is one purchased in a 1 gallon
nursery
container and is about 1 inch in diameter. The holes were no wider than
the
containers, but dug deep enough that I could put gravel in the bottom to
insure drainage. It seems that these two trees are my healthiest pines.
In
fact they are the ones I've had the longest.

The most common result I have with JBP's is that they get a kind of worm
infestation in the new shoots in July and August and die-- from pine tip
moths or borers or something. Because there are healthy trees around,
planted in the ground or buried like the two mentioned above, I'm guessing
that my dead trees succumbed because of stress. Am I on the right track?


Blessings,

Tim Ahlen
Dallas, TX
Zone 8b


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Am I on the right track? asks Tim.

Yes, I believe you are. JBP candle tip borer is decimating the species all
over the country. I've been growing them on Long Island for 50 years.
Because I've been giving them good treatment, I haven't lost any. My
garden abuts a park in which JBP were planted 30 years ago.
ALL of them are now gone from the park, but mine continue to flourish.
Reason? you guessed it - weakened trees are much more suceptible to the
borer than healthy ones. Keep them in the sun, feed them once in awhile,
keep them well pruned, water them during droughts, and you'll do fine. One
more thing. If you see white fuzzy or bubbly material on your branch tips,
spray them repeatedly with soapy water. That will suffocate the little
devils.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Ahlen"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:29 PM
Subject: [IBC] Black Pine about 700 mile north of the true Tropics


Greetings All,

Thanks to Khaimraj for his encouraging note on black pines in the true
tropics.

I started a thread on the gallery awhile ago that reflected my frustration
as well as my tenacity at trying to keep JBP bonsais alive in the Dallas,
TX
area (Zone 8b). Several tried to encourage me to keep trying. Ernie Kuo,
based on his knowledge of the area and the experience of other Dallas
enthusiasts with JBP, encouraged me to try other species. That kind of
encouragement should be (and is!) taken very seriously.

Still, I look around the landscape in Dallas and I see JBP's thriving in
Dallas' heavy, alkaline black clay soil and everything else that goes
along
with the environment here. Could one of the primary factors that lead
enthusiasts in tropical or other warm climates to despair over JBP's be
that
summer temperatures cook the roots in unshaded/unprotected pots?

For the last two years I have buried two black pines in the ground in
their
growing pots during the spring and summer. One of them is an older tree,
about 3 inches in diameter; the other is one purchased in a 1 gallon
nursery
container and is about 1 inch in diameter. The holes were no wider than
the
containers, but dug deep enough that I could put gravel in the bottom to
insure drainage. It seems that these two trees are my healthiest pines.
In
fact they are the ones I've had the longest.

The most common result I have with JBP's is that they get a kind of worm
infestation in the new shoots in July and August and die-- from pine tip
moths or borers or something. Because there are healthy trees around,
planted in the ground or buried like the two mentioned above, I'm guessing
that my dead trees succumbed because of stress. Am I on the right track?


Blessings,

Tim Ahlen
Dallas, TX
Zone 8b


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Am I on the right track? asks Tim.

Yes, I believe you are. JBP candle tip borer is decimating the species all
over the country. I've been growing them on Long Island for 50 years.
Because I've been giving them good treatment, I haven't lost any. My
garden abuts a park in which JBP were planted 30 years ago.
ALL of them are now gone from the park, but mine continue to flourish.
Reason? you guessed it - weakened trees are much more suceptible to the
borer than healthy ones. Keep them in the sun, feed them once in awhile,
keep them well pruned, water them during droughts, and you'll do fine. One
more thing. If you see white fuzzy or bubbly material on your branch tips,
spray them repeatedly with soapy water. That will suffocate the little
devils.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Ahlen"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:29 PM
Subject: [IBC] Black Pine about 700 mile north of the true Tropics


Greetings All,

Thanks to Khaimraj for his encouraging note on black pines in the true
tropics.

I started a thread on the gallery awhile ago that reflected my frustration
as well as my tenacity at trying to keep JBP bonsais alive in the Dallas,
TX
area (Zone 8b). Several tried to encourage me to keep trying. Ernie Kuo,
based on his knowledge of the area and the experience of other Dallas
enthusiasts with JBP, encouraged me to try other species. That kind of
encouragement should be (and is!) taken very seriously.

Still, I look around the landscape in Dallas and I see JBP's thriving in
Dallas' heavy, alkaline black clay soil and everything else that goes
along
with the environment here. Could one of the primary factors that lead
enthusiasts in tropical or other warm climates to despair over JBP's be
that
summer temperatures cook the roots in unshaded/unprotected pots?

For the last two years I have buried two black pines in the ground in
their
growing pots during the spring and summer. One of them is an older tree,
about 3 inches in diameter; the other is one purchased in a 1 gallon
nursery
container and is about 1 inch in diameter. The holes were no wider than
the
containers, but dug deep enough that I could put gravel in the bottom to
insure drainage. It seems that these two trees are my healthiest pines.
In
fact they are the ones I've had the longest.

The most common result I have with JBP's is that they get a kind of worm
infestation in the new shoots in July and August and die-- from pine tip
moths or borers or something. Because there are healthy trees around,
planted in the ground or buried like the two mentioned above, I'm guessing
that my dead trees succumbed because of stress. Am I on the right track?


Blessings,

Tim Ahlen
Dallas, TX
Zone 8b


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

At 12:29 PM 1/7/04 -0600, Tim Ahlen wrote:

I started a thread on the gallery awhile ago that reflected my frustration
as well as my tenacity at trying to keep JBP bonsais alive in the Dallas, TX
area (Zone 8b). Several tried to encourage me to keep trying. Ernie Kuo,
based on his knowledge of the area and the experience of other Dallas
enthusiasts with JBP, encouraged me to try other species. That kind of
encouragement should be (and is!) taken very seriously.

Still, I look around the landscape in Dallas and I see JBP's thriving in
Dallas' heavy, alkaline black clay soil and everything else that goes along
with the environment here. Could one of the primary factors that lead
enthusiasts in tropical or other warm climates to despair over JBP's be that
summer temperatures cook the roots in unshaded/unprotected pots?

For the last two years I have buried two black pines in the ground in their
growing pots during the spring and summer. One of them is an older tree,
about 3 inches in diameter; the other is one purchased in a 1 gallon nursery
container and is about 1 inch in diameter. The holes were no wider than the
containers, but dug deep enough that I could put gravel in the bottom to
insure drainage. It seems that these two trees are my healthiest pines. In
fact they are the ones I've had the longest.

The most common result I have with JBP's is that they get a kind of worm
infestation in the new shoots in July and August and die-- from pine tip
moths or borers or something. Because there are healthy trees around,
planted in the ground or buried like the two mentioned above, I'm guessing
that my dead trees succumbed because of stress. Am I on the right track?

Tim

Yes, I think you are on the right track. There is an article at my website
by Andy Walsh that goes into the dangers of excessive soil temperatures:

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/rootheat.htm

I know for a fact that it is a serious problem in growing White pine, Pinus
parviflora, in containers. My losses went down to almost zero once I began
putting them under shadecloth in the summer. Although the ambient air
temperature is the same, the pots don't heat up above this point under the
shadecloth. Black nursery pots, and even stone bonsai pots, are little
solar collectors in direct sunlight.

I have observed the phenomenon of dead roots on the sun side of the pot,
while the shaded side roots were fat, white, and healthy. It isn't as hot
here as there, but it is still a problem for Pinus thunbergii that I plan
to address. Your solution of plunging the pots is a good one, but is
impractical for me. I plan to paint the pots white on the south and west
sides. There is a shade paint compound made for greenhouse plastic film
that can be sprayed on, but it doesn't contain a binder so it comes off
with repeated applications of water. Since my plants are drip irrigated, it
should last through the summer.


Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14

http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Good Day to All,
Tim,

the one situation we do not have is heat waves.
The island has a maritime modified climate,with
winds from the east all year long.

Our temperature seldom reaches to 100 deg.F
[38 deg.c] and even then only for a brief period
in summer from 1.00 to 2.00 o'clock,in the afternoon.
Additionally,the summer months are our rainy season.

Other than that,my pines are enjoying full sun,but
are sheltered from drying,high winds.The stands for
the trees are also on the lawn,a source of moisture.

The earthenware pot is extra porous and 1"[2.5 cm]+
thick all over.This guarantees rapid drainage and cooling
through the clay body--especially in the presence of a
wind.
The old folk before refrigerators used jars made this way
to keep water cold.
So the pot and freely draining soil,handles heavy downpours.

I wish you well and do let the group know how it all goes,
please.
Khaimraj
[West Indies/Caribbean]

Sigh- more rain,but it should help the transplants.




-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Ahlen
To:
Date: 07 January 2004 10:29
Subject: [IBC] Black Pine about 700 mile north of the true Tropics


Greetings All,

Thanks to Khaimraj for his encouraging note on black pines in the true
tropics.

I started a thread on the gallery awhile ago that reflected my frustration
as well as my tenacity at trying to keep JBP bonsais alive in the Dallas, TX
area (Zone 8b). Several tried to encourage me to keep trying. Ernie Kuo,
based on his knowledge of the area and the experience of other Dallas
enthusiasts with JBP, encouraged me to try other species. That kind of
encouragement should be (and is!) taken very seriously.

Still, I look around the landscape in Dallas and I see JBP's thriving in
Dallas' heavy, alkaline black clay soil and everything else that goes along
with the environment here. Could one of the primary factors that lead
enthusiasts in tropical or other warm climates to despair over JBP's be that
summer temperatures cook the roots in unshaded/unprotected pots?

For the last two years I have buried two black pines in the ground in their
growing pots during the spring and summer. One of them is an older tree,
about 3 inches in diameter; the other is one purchased in a 1 gallon nursery
container and is about 1 inch in diameter. The holes were no wider than the
containers, but dug deep enough that I could put gravel in the bottom to
insure drainage. It seems that these two trees are my healthiest pines. In
fact they are the ones I've had the longest.

The most common result I have with JBP's is that they get a kind of worm
infestation in the new shoots in July and August and die-- from pine tip
moths or borers or something. Because there are healthy trees around,
planted in the ground or buried like the two mentioned above, I'm guessing
that my dead trees succumbed because of stress. Am I on the right track?


Blessings,

Tim Ahlen
Dallas, TX
Zone 8b

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++