Bonsai. Nevertheless, I've found myself with the audacity to draw up a
short list of common Pacific Nortwest trees/shrubs I'd like to try, some
of which are not "typical" material for Bonsai, to my extremely limited
knowledge.

Dude, you call that audacity? Apple? Cherry? Get a copy of "Forest Farm" nursery catalog- the nursery is in Williams, OR- and check out real native plants of the Pacific Northwest. There are wonderful things out there crying to be bonsai.

I greatly welcome any thoughts on using or trying these, in
general and/or for the beginner:

1. Madrona (the bark seems to naturally have a great "bonsai effect")

Reportedly difficult to transplant

2. Apple

You can find wild crabapples and bonsai them, no problem.

3. Cherry

Depends on the species. Many of the "sand" cherries make good bonsai, only they lose limbs unpredictably.

4. Camellia (sinensis)

They are very nice; it's a shame I'm doing a project where I infect camellias with diseases and kill them.


and finally

5. Rose ?????

Wild roses have been used for bonsai- I'd steer clear of inbred hybrids.

Nina

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--- Adam Gottschalk wrote:
Portland being the City of Roses, I wonder if one
can do a Bonsai rose.
I know there are "miniature roses" but that's not
what I mean. I mean
taking the stock of a real rose and training it in
Bonsai fashion. Is
that possible?

I have bonsaied minature roses. They take well to
pruning, but there is a delicate balance to having a
blooming minature rose bonsai.

Kitsune Miko

=====
"Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princes(ses) who are only waiting
to see us act just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that
frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that needs our
love." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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In a message dated 4/12/2004 5:40:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

. I greatly welcome any thoughts on using or trying these, in
general and/or for the beginner:

1. Madrona (the bark seems to naturally have a great "bonsai effect")

Don't know this but then I am in Florida


2. Apple


Some species of Apple have been used by the Japanese. The leaves will
reduce but the fruit will not, so if you have a choice pick a small fruited
one. The nice thing about Apple is that it blooms along the stem, so you can
prune and still get flowers

3. Cherry

Another traditional Japanese choice. Again there will be varieties that
will work better than others.

4. Camellia (sinensis)

Still another traditional choice, but also variety matters.

5. Rose ?????

One problem is that they bloom on the end of stems, pruning prevent
blooming.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

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Bonsai. Nevertheless, I've found myself with the audacity to
draw up a
short list of common Pacific Nortwest trees/shrubs I'd like
to try, some
of which are not "typical" material for Bonsai, to my
extremely limited
knowledge.

Dude, you call that audacity? Apple? Cherry? Get a copy of
"Forest Farm" nursery catalog- the nursery is in Williams, OR-
and check out real native plants of the Pacific Northwest. There
are wonderful things out there crying to be bonsai.

I greatly welcome any thoughts on using or trying these, in
general and/or for the beginner:

1. Madrona (the bark seems to naturally have a great "bonsai
effect")

Reportedly difficult to transplant

2. Apple

You can find wild crabapples and bonsai them, no problem.

3. Cherry

Depends on the species. Many of the "sand" cherries make good
bonsai, only they lose limbs unpredictably.

4. Camellia (sinensis)

They are very nice; it's a shame I'm doing a project where I
infect camellias with diseases and kill them.


and finally

5. Rose ?????

Wild roses have been used for bonsai- I'd steer clear of inbred
hybrids.

Camellia, of course, is NOT a native plant. It just seems that
way in some places because folks have overplanted them.

Check out your local library. They probably have a picture book
or two on bonsai and you may find one with enough variety to give
you an idea of the wide range of plants that can be made into
bonsai. They also will have western (USA) Tree ID books you can
use to find local species that will do well as bonsai.

As for bonsai books, the Colin Lewis/Southerland book is OK as
bonsai books go (and as you say, the horticultural info is pretty
good -- unlike a few other bonsai books -- but Colin at least has
done better.

Sunset's new edition of "Bonsai" -- a must-read for beginners! --
has lists of species, including many natives, that do well as
bonsai.

Rhus, Amelianchier, Celtis, Quercus, Cerocarpus (BETTER than rose
but same family!) are all "local" (read native) trees that grow
in the west that should work.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - It is better
to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open your
mouth and remove all doubt.

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Jim Lewis wrote:

Bonsai. Nevertheless, I've found myself with the audacity to
draw up a
short list of common Pacific Nortwest trees/shrubs I'd like
to try, some
of which are not "typical" material for Bonsai, to my
extremely limited
knowledge.

Dude, you call that audacity? Apple? Cherry? Get a copy of
"Forest Farm" nursery catalog- the nursery is in Williams, OR-
and check out real native plants of the Pacific Northwest. There
are wonderful things out there crying to be bonsai.


I just ordered a catalog, Nina. It sounds good.


I greatly welcome any thoughts on using or trying these, in
general and/or for the beginner:

2. Apple

You can find wild crabapples and bonsai them, no problem.

I have several wild crabapples, mostly collected in Maine but one came from
Pennsylvania and one from here in NY. The thing about apples and crabapples is
that they don't ramify as such, so the foliage is going to be a bit thinner than
with other trees.


3. Cherry

Depends on the species. Many of the "sand" cherries make good
bonsai, only they lose limbs unpredictably.

I've got a bunch of black cherry I collected last fall. Great trunks and bases.
No new buds yet, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

and finally

5. Rose ?????

Wild roses have been used for bonsai- I'd steer clear of inbred
hybrids.

We've got wild roses all over the place here. Small leaves and really nice trunks
once they get older. If I can get past the thorns there is a really large specimen
I'd like to collect.
snip

Rhus, Amelianchier, Celtis, Quercus, Cerocarpus (BETTER than rose
but same family!) are all "local" (read native) trees that grow
in the west that should work.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - It is better
to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open your
mouth and remove all doubt.

My feeling is that native or naturalized species are good to use because they are
already accustomed to living in that environment. Plus, really good specimens can
be found in suburban plantings or in the woods. Remember, though--always, always,
always ask permission to collect if you aren't collecting on your own land.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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Allen wrote:

An
important, maybe crucial aspect of bonsai is "Scale" ... You should be
able to look at a well-done bonsai and "See" a big old tree. You never
see a 20 foot tree with leaves 4 feet across, or fruit the size of
beachballs, right? If your leaves, flowers, or fruit cannot be made to
grow small, you're going to lose the sense of scale and things are not
going to look appropriate, and in a purely practical non-aethetic
sense, the limb might not even support the apple ! So ... crabapple -
yes ! Granny Smith apple - no. I would think this would apply to
roses and you should try to find a rose variety with small blooms.

Obviously scale is important, but it doesn't always work out that you're going to get leaf reduction in scale to the
trunk size. Even Japanese or trident maples won't reduce to that point. Of course, after a certain point a small
tree with really big leaves isn't going to work for bonsai.

With fruit it's another story. I've heard some argue that working towards getting a bonsai to fruit may sap the
tree's energy. I don't ever expect my crabapples to bear fruit, and that isn't my goal. The tree itself is the
goal. If I can get them to flower that's a bonus.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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I have a couple of vine maples that are developing. I like the leaf shape
(they remind me of full moon maple from Japan), but the growth is a bit
coarse so medium to large trees are better.

-----Original Message-----
Subject: [IBC] Using (unusual) local trees?

The following native Northwest trees may be used for bonsai: vine maple (A.
circinatum), western hemlock (Tsuga heterophylla), Port Orford cedar
(Chamaecyparis lawsoniana). There are others.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40

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In article 001d01c421df$c23ce1d0$6401a8c0@Weiser1,
(MartyWeiser) wrote:

but the growth is a bit
coarse so medium to large trees are better.

Could you explain further what you mean by the above?

--- Adam Gottschalk wrote:
In article 001d01c421df$c23ce1d0$6401a8c0@Weiser1,
(MartyWeiser) wrote:

but the growth is a bit
coarse so medium to large trees are better.

Could you explain further what you mean by the
above?

Adam,

I think the question is one of proportions. If you
have large leaves, long intenodes, but still want to
bonsai a speciment, you sould consider a bonsai of the
size where the leaves will look natural. So If you
have a Shohin (mame i.e. under 6" to 8" depending on
the prevailing winds*) you might not consider a large
leafed maple for that style, but if you have a 36"
tall tree with a 3" or larger diameter trunk, you
would have the scale to carry the larger leaf size.

Kitsune Miko

* bonsai definitions are not static, the jury is still
out on how tall one can make a short tree.

=====
"Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princes(ses) who are only waiting
to see us act just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that
frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that needs our
love." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Adam,

The twigs on vine maple are fairly thick (2 - 3 mm), the internodes are not
real short (1 - 2 cm), and the leaves are fairly large (3 - 7 cm) - even in
a bonsai pot. As a result the tree looks in better scale if it is larger -
perhaps 50 cm or better. In contrast is Japanese maple (A. palmatum)
seedlings where the twigs are often 1 mm, the internodes can reduce to 5 mm,
and the leaves can be easily reduced to 2 - 3 cm which allows a much smaller
bonsai to be made in scale. Of course there are dwarf cultivars of A.
palmatum where the twigs, internodes, and leaves are 1/3 to 1/2 this size
which can be made into even smaller bonsai. A vine maple could be made into
a small bonsai, but I feel that the larger twigs, internodes, and leaves
would not look that good.

Marty

(MartyWeiser) wrote:

but the growth is a bit
coarse so medium to large trees are better.

Could you explain further what you mean by the above?

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The only problem i see in using Rose's is that the flowers will not reduce
in size. So if you can find a rose with relatively small flowers or one of
those Ragusa Roses it might work

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The only problem i see in using Rose's is that the flowers will
not reduce
in size. So if you can find a rose with relatively small
flowers or one of
those Ragusa Roses it might work

Well, I have a little rose with one-inch red flowers, but the
green, "jointed" stems will always be a problem.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

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