| Home |
| Search |
| Today's Posts |
|
#1
04-05-2004, 12:07 AM
|
|||
|
|||
[IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots
I'm looking for some suggestions/hints/tricks/lessons learned....
I have purchased a number of nursery plants this year and have found that as I get into the process of combing out the roots - they are an absolute mess. Unfortunately, I don't have ready access to wild trees (alps, rockies, or even smokies) or even field grown; so am stuck with nursery stock. Saturday I spent over 2 hours trying to comb the roots out on a Mugho pine. This was a 3 gallon tree with a really nice trunk AND what appeared to be a fairly good nebari. However, when I got it home and actually got working on it I discovered that the roots circled and intertined so bad there was no way to completely get them straightend. I did the best that I could, but I know it will probably take some more serious work again (maybe twice more) in the future just to get the roots into decent shape. Is there some trick to this that I'm simply not aware of? Is there some way to tell in advance - I mean I dig down with my fingers as far as I can while at the nursery, but it isn't always that obvious. This is not a one-time thing either. Every tree I've purchased this year with any trunk size at all seems to have this problem. I believe someone else mentioned a similar problem with a Hillier Elm not too long ago. I need some HELP! Jeff Isom Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
|
#3
04-05-2004, 03:04 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
[IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots
The reason nursery stock is often root-bound is because commercial growers
up-pot young trees without ever bothering with the roots. Many times I have found elements of the original 2" paper pots in the soil of plants sold in 10" or 12" pots. The best (and dirtiest) way of dealing with root-bound material is to wash out all the soil with a high pressure hose before combing out the roots. That way it's easier to see what you're doing. It is also less traumatic for the roots as opposed to raking them out with a root hook. Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Isom, Jeff (EM, PTL)" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 5:44 PM Subject: [IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots I'm looking for some suggestions/hints/tricks/lessons learned.... I have purchased a number of nursery plants this year and have found that as I get into the process of combing out the roots - they are an absolute mess. Unfortunately, I don't have ready access to wild trees (alps, rockies, or even smokies) or even field grown; so am stuck with nursery stock. Saturday I spent over 2 hours trying to comb the roots out on a Mugho pine. This was a 3 gallon tree with a really nice trunk AND what appeared to be a fairly good nebari. However, when I got it home and actually got working on it I discovered that the roots circled and intertined so bad there was no way to completely get them straightend. I did the best that I could, but I know it will probably take some more serious work again (maybe twice more) in the future just to get the roots into decent shape. Is there some trick to this that I'm simply not aware of? Is there some way to tell in advance - I mean I dig down with my fingers as far as I can while at the nursery, but it isn't always that obvious. This is not a one-time thing either. Every tree I've purchased this year with any trunk size at all seems to have this problem. I believe someone else mentioned a similar problem with a Hillier Elm not too long ago. I need some HELP! Jeff Isom Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39 ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
|
#4
04-05-2004, 03:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
[IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots
Thanks for the responses everyone. Mostly I was just venting -
My current process is: 1) Remove plant from nursery container and soak in a solution of Miracle Grow & Super Thrive (stop laughing - I figure it can't hurt). 2) When I remove it, I use a chopstick or roothook (depending on how bad it is) to loosen the outer layer of circling roots. I'll also use the chopstick (as well as fingers and thumbs) to probe into the "soil" and loosen it. 3) I then use a garden hose set to the hardest stream I can get. 4) I'll then use the roothook to begin combing out the roots. 5) Repeat 2 - 4 as necessary with an occasional 1 thrown in when exhaustion sets in or I seem to be making no progress. I have to admit, usually, this seems to work fairly well and I end up with some decently spreading roots. However, what really got me frustrated over the last few weeks is that I spent a little more to get some larger stock and the roots were SO bad that I couldn't completely untangle them. After the responses regarding nursery practices, however, I understand better why that is. I REALLY wish I lived closer to Brent to buy all of my stock from him. All I can afford from him though, with shipping as a major consideration, are the smaller plants. With the way he takes care of his plants, they require almost no rootwork at all - just make sure they are still spread out correctly when they get repotted! I do make my purchases, as much as possible, at Bonsai nurseries. Unfortunately, for all the reasons mentioned, the large plants that have been properly prepared to be Bonsai are 2 to 3 times (or more) as expensive as the equivalent nursery plant. A lot less work - but, alas, I do have more time than money.... Jeff Isom Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
|
#5
04-05-2004, 04:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
[IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots
I have purchased a number of nursery plants this year and have found that as
I get into the process of combing out the roots - they are an absolute mess. My sympathies. I have had the same problem not only with nursery trees and collected trees, but even trees from reputable bonsai nurseries. Straightening out the roots when they repot is labor intensive & not cost effective. See Julian Adams' article in a recent issue of International Bonsai. The only thing you can do is start by overpotting in a large training pot that will accommodate the roots. Some of them will stick up. Prune the mess off a little at a time. Repot yearly & gradually work the roots down. With conifers it will take longer than fast growing broad leafed trees like maples. The worst problem is when you have a few large roots with big gaps in between. If you can't convince the tree to grow new roots, you will have to get grafts from somewhere. Saturday I spent over 2 hours trying to comb the roots out on a Mugo pine. You may have killed it. You can't do that to a pine tree. You have to straighten the roots out very gradually, always leaving some of the original soil. I believe someone else mentioned a similar problem with a Hillier Elm not too long ago. I had a 'Jacqueline Hillier' elm from Iseli Nursery where the root ball was as solid as a rock. I finally had to saw it apart. By some miracle, the tree is still alive in its bonsai pot, but there is a mass of surface roots which will have to stay until the next repotting. Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming train." Robert Lowell (1917-1977) |
|
#6
04-05-2004, 04:08 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
[IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots
Most of my bonsai are developed from nursery stock.
Even stock I have purchased from some bonsai nurseries (not Brent) have been pot bound. Some of my stuff that I don't get to is pot bound. My process is to take a couple of years or more to get the plant ready to be bonsai or even pre-potensai. Depending on the plant, I use the larger roots for root cuttings. I don't bare root on the first transplant. I just cut the root ball back, take out some pie shaped wedges of roots, and pot. I do look for dead root areas to eliminate. In a couple of repots, removing alternate pie shaped wedges, I eventually get a nice root mass. My best example of this is an olive that I got at a nursery going out of business sale. It was about 15" to 20" tall in a 15" gallon can. Left about 10" of the tree at the nursery so I could gt it in my car. I got it some 15-16 years ago. I put it into a bonsai pot a couple of years ago. It took that much time to get a new top developed and to get the root mass cut back. My current project is battling some cedar elms that not only were pot bound, but gangly. I have started the root cuttings and divided the stump into a couple of sections. Talk about roots being tangled! The are all sitting in pots doing nicely at this time. I plan to airlayer next year after the trees heal from their current, but well meant abuse. Kitsune Miko ===== "Art does not take kindly to facts, is helpless to grapple with theories, and is killed outright by a sermon." Agnes Ropplier (added to the above) "How many things in life do we bludgeon with facts, render helpless with theories, and kill with sermons? If art can help us go beyond these patterns, we certainly need it in our lives." Anne Wilson Schaef From, "Women Who Do Too Much Calandar 2004." ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
|
#7
05-05-2004, 11:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
[IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots
You could try using the tourniquet method to create a new nebari. I just
bought some plants that had huge single or otherwise bad root systems and I am using this method. Using a wire tourniquet or planting them in the ground through a tile should give you quite a nice result in a year or two. There is a very nice explanation of this method here http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATNebari.html Dave Glazewski Portland CT zone 6 "Isom, Jeff , EM, PTL" wrote in message news:87FC4D6C5FBDD311A6F00008C7E6F4C624326C6B@excm sg01ptlge.penske.com... I'm looking for some suggestions/hints/tricks/lessons learned.... I have purchased a number of nursery plants this year and have found that as I get into the process of combing out the roots - they are an absolute mess. Unfortunately, I don't have ready access to wild trees (alps, rockies, or even smokies) or even field grown; so am stuck with nursery stock. Saturday I spent over 2 hours trying to comb the roots out on a Mugho pine. This was a 3 gallon tree with a really nice trunk AND what appeared to be a fairly good nebari. However, when I got it home and actually got working on it I discovered that the roots circled and intertined so bad there was no way to completely get them straightend. I did the best that I could, but I know it will probably take some more serious work again (maybe twice more) in the future just to get the roots into decent shape. Is there some trick to this that I'm simply not aware of? Is there some way to tell in advance - I mean I dig down with my fingers as far as I can while at the nursery, but it isn't always that obvious. This is not a one-time thing either. Every tree I've purchased this year with any trunk size at all seems to have this problem. I believe someone else mentioned a similar problem with a Hillier Elm not too long ago. I need some HELP! Jeff Isom Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39 ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
|
#8
06-05-2004, 03:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
[IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots
Thanks. Unfortunately, most of the new trees I have purchase are pines -
which, I believe, are not the best candidates for layering. However, thanks for the web address - I knew about layering, but the tourniquet/tile thing gives me some ideas for some of my other trees. -----Original Message----- From: Dave G [mailto 
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:41 PMTo: Subject: [IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots You could try using the tourniquet method to create a new nebari. I just bought some plants that had huge single or otherwise bad root systems and I am using this method. Using a wire tourniquet or planting them in the ground through a tile should give you quite a nice result in a year or two. There is a very nice explanation of this method here http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATNebari.html Dave Glazewski Portland CT zone 6 "Isom, Jeff , EM, PTL" wrote in message news:87FC4D6C5FBDD311A6F00008C7E6F4C624326C6B@excm sg01ptlge.penske.com... I'm looking for some suggestions/hints/tricks/lessons learned.... I have purchased a number of nursery plants this year and have found that as I get into the process of combing out the roots - they are an absolute mess. Unfortunately, I don't have ready access to wild trees (alps, rockies, or even smokies) or even field grown; so am stuck with nursery stock. Saturday I spent over 2 hours trying to comb the roots out on a Mugho pine. This was a 3 gallon tree with a really nice trunk AND what appeared to be a fairly good nebari. However, when I got it home and actually got working on it I discovered that the roots circled and intertined so bad there was no way to completely get them straightend. I did the best that I could, but I know it will probably take some more serious work again (maybe twice more) in the future just to get the roots into decent shape. Is there some trick to this that I'm simply not aware of? Is there some way to tell in advance - I mean I dig down with my fingers as far as I can while at the nursery, but it isn't always that obvious. This is not a one-time thing either. Every tree I've purchased this year with any trunk size at all seems to have this problem. I believe someone else mentioned a similar problem with a Hillier Elm not too long ago. I need some HELP! Jeff Isom Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39 ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
|
#9
25-05-2004, 09:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
[IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots
There is nothing wrong with nursey stock. Depending on the Species it can be
very successful. When I work with nusery stock or collected trees. I find the surface roots and the lowesrt branch. From there I decide how i am going to design my tree.If you remove alot of leaves or needles. you can probably remove the same proportion from the roots. Don't forget to use tree wound to cover scars. The tree may not be ready for bonsai pot for a couple of years, but this is the fun part, to me. Good Luck with your new trees. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
|
#10
25-05-2004, 09:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
[IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots
There is nothing wrong with nursery stock. Depending on the Species it can
be very successful. When I work with nursery stock or collected trees. I find the surface roots and the lowest branch. From there I decide how I am going to design my tree. If you remove a lot of leaves or needles. you can probably remove the same proportion from the roots. Don't forget to use tree wound to cover scars. The tree may not be ready for bonsai pot for a couple of years, but this is the fun part, to me. Good Luck with your new trees. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
|
#11
25-05-2004, 09:07 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
[IBC] Nursery stock and circling/intertwined roots
If your roots are that long you have to reduce their length just as you do
the branches. Going from a 3 gallon pot to a Bonsai pot takes a while. don't expect to have an instantaneous bonsai. The process can take years. depending on the tree. I would remove about 1/3 the roots this year. then remove 1/3 more next spring. Just make sure you leave enough fine roots to support the tree ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
| Reply |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Forum | |||
| [IBC] Fw: Good Nursery stock | Bonsai | |||
| [IBC] Japanese Black Pines - Nursery Stock | Bonsai | |||
| [IBC] Japanese Black Pines - Nursery Stock | Bonsai | |||
| [IBC] Japanese Black Pines - Nursery Stock | Bonsai | |||
| [IBC] Nursery Stock | Bonsai | |||
Linear Mode
