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#1
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[IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to?
I understand your problem. Trees taken from the ground or from nursery pots
do not usually have a root configuration suitable for immediate transfer to a slab planting. To accomplish a flat root mass, you must begin a slow process of training which could take several years. The first step is to remove those thick vertical roots that you mention. Then plant your tree either in the ground over a flat tile or piece of slate, or in a bonsai tray. This would allow the tree to develop the fine root hairs necessary for a slab planting. Of course, if the removal of the thick roots would leave you with no other rootage, this procedure could not be used. In such a case, I would suggest that this tree should be planted in a container rather than a slab. Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vladimir" To: Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 8:19 AM Subject: [IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to? Hello, I train some 1 y.o. figs (ficus carica) grown from seeds. Those figs are about 2-3 cm (about 1 inch) thick, during the year they were repotted twice and cutted -- they grows very fast. I did nothing with roots. Yesterday I tried to develop nebary: I removed the soil from first fig's root and planned to place roots star-like, develope plain root system, etc. However, I found 4 finger-thick roots growed horisontally for 3 cm and then grows stright down. How to place such roots horisontally -- I can't imagine. I placed the tree on a rock, but I don't delighted by result. What shall I do? Gridle my trees or try to wire roots? Thank you, Vladimir. ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#2
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[IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to?
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:20:21 -0400, you wrote:
Of course, if the removal of the thick roots would leave you with no other rootage, this procedure could not be used. Hmmm, I don't like to disagree but a statement of such definitive certainty is almost crying out for someone to do so Depending on where you are Vladimir, you could probably remove the roots completely and treat the plants as cuttings, repeating this process untill you get the thickness or the root formation that you desire. Others will comment on this I'm sure. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vladimir" To: Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 8:19 AM Subject: [IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to? Hello, I train some 1 y.o. figs (ficus carica) grown from seeds. Those figs are about 2-3 cm (about 1 inch) thick, during the year they were repotted twice and cutted -- they grows very fast. I did nothing with roots. Yesterday I tried to develop nebary: I removed the soil from first fig's root and planned to place roots star-like, develope plain root system, etc. However, I found 4 finger-thick roots growed horisontally for 3 cm and then grows stright down. How to place such roots horisontally -- I can't imagine. I placed the tree on a rock, but I don't delighted by result. What shall I do? Gridle my trees or try to wire roots? Thank you, Vladimir. ************************************************* *************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************* *************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#3
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[IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to?
Beg to disagree, Richard. To take a 1" trunk and try to treat it as a
cutting is not plausible in my book. Did you ever try it? Marty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Patefield" To: Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 11:11 AM Subject: [IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to? On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:20:21 -0400, you wrote: Of course, if the removal of the thick roots would leave you with no other rootage, this procedure could not be used. Hmmm, I don't like to disagree but a statement of such definitive certainty is almost crying out for someone to do so Depending on where you are Vladimir, you could probably remove the roots completely and treat the plants as cuttings, repeating this process untill you get the thickness or the root formation that you desire. Others will comment on this I'm sure. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vladimir" To: Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 8:19 AM Subject: [IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to? Hello, I train some 1 y.o. figs (ficus carica) grown from seeds. Those figs are about 2-3 cm (about 1 inch) thick, during the year they were repotted twice and cutted -- they grows very fast. I did nothing with roots. Yesterday I tried to develop nebary: I removed the soil from first fig's root and planned to place roots star-like, develope plain root system, etc. However, I found 4 finger-thick roots growed horisontally for 3 cm and then grows stright down. How to place such roots horisontally -- I can't imagine. I placed the tree on a rock, but I don't delighted by result. What shall I do? Gridle my trees or try to wire roots? Thank you, Vladimir. ************************************************* ************************** * **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************* ************************** * **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************* ************************** ***** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************* ************************** ***** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#4
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[IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to?
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 13:39:06 -0400, you wrote:
Beg to disagree, Richard. To take a 1" trunk and try to treat it as a cutting is not plausible in my book. Did you ever try it? Marty In England? No. Send me a misting bench and a bunch of plants and I'll have a go tho'. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Patefield" To: Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 11:11 AM Subject: [IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to? On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:20:21 -0400, you wrote: Of course, if the removal of the thick roots would leave you with no other rootage, this procedure could not be used. Hmmm, I don't like to disagree but a statement of such definitive certainty is almost crying out for someone to do so Depending on where you are Vladimir, you could probably remove the roots completely and treat the plants as cuttings, repeating this process untill you get the thickness or the root formation that you desire. Others will comment on this I'm sure. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vladimir" To: Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 8:19 AM Subject: [IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to? Hello, I train some 1 y.o. figs (ficus carica) grown from seeds. Those figs are about 2-3 cm (about 1 inch) thick, during the year they were repotted twice and cutted -- they grows very fast. I did nothing with roots. Yesterday I tried to develop nebary: I removed the soil from first fig's root and planned to place roots star-like, develope plain root system, etc. However, I found 4 finger-thick roots growed horisontally for 3 cm and then grows stright down. How to place such roots horisontally -- I can't imagine. I placed the tree on a rock, but I don't delighted by result. What shall I do? Gridle my trees or try to wire roots? Thank you, Vladimir. ************************************************ *************************** * **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************ *************************** * **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************ *************************** ***** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************ *************************** ***** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************* *************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************* *************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************* ******************************* ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************* ******************************* -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#6
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[IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to?
Dear Sirs,
maybe it is worth to make an incision in the lower (inner) place of a root curve? It will make a root thinner and more flexible, however saves the thick look. Optically ;-) I am from Saint Petersburg, Russia. Figs grow indoor only. Thanks, Vladimir. "Richard Patefield" wrote in message ... On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:20:21 -0400, you wrote: Of course, if the removal of the thick roots would leave you with no other rootage, this procedure could not be used. Hmmm, I don't like to disagree but a statement of such definitive certainty is almost crying out for someone to do so Depending on where you are Vladimir, you could probably remove the roots completely and treat the plants as cuttings, repeating this process untill you get the thickness or the root formation that you desire. Others will comment on this I'm sure. Richard |
#7
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[IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to?
in my limited experience and through reading, i have learned that ficus
carica are difficult to root from cuttings, at least they are for me, I've succesfully rooting other types but not carica. -- Peter Kulibert zone 4a/5b "Jim Lewis" wrote in message news:00f601c45d3b$e44690e0$39112cc7@pavilion... Beg to disagree, Richard. To take a 1" trunk and try to treat it as a cutting is not plausible in my book. Did you ever try it? Marty Seems that it is in Florida (even North Florida). I recently took an F salicifolia workshop and we were directed to cut all roots (and branches, as a matter of fact) off the trees to, in effect, start over. They had 2-inch bases. It is sprouting well (tho another one that I didn't cut _quite_ as much is badly in need of a haircut). So we'll see. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it should have - Paul Bigelow Sears. ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#8
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[IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to?
Peter,
Cutted branches from my figs gave roots in the water during a week, so it was easy. However, I didn't tryed it with 1inch trunk. BUT the question is: will the gridling less effective than total roots cutting? Thanks, Vladimir. "Peter K." wrote in message ... in my limited experience and through reading, i have learned that ficus carica are difficult to root from cuttings, at least they are for me, I've succesfully rooting other types but not carica. |
#9
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[IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to?
A lurker here who reads the digest. This gives a good perspective of the
threads as you can compare the different responses for an overall view. In this thread (which I've tagged to the original message), everyone seems to be missing the point. Vladimir's problem is the classical potbound plant issue of roots that go horizontal for a short way and then dive to the bottom of the pot. His seedlings do this after 3cm (or just over 1 inch for us on the archaic imperial system). If I read his message right, he has tried to disguise this flaw by planting them over a rock (not a slab planting but a "root over rock" planting). He doesn't like the look. So he still has a root problem. Now he wants a suggestion on how to correct his problem. He grows tropicals out of zone, in Russia. Not conducive to ground growing. Although Russia is a huge country, I don't believe it has tropical areas. He'll probably have to keep his plants in pots so they can be protected during the winter. My first reaction, like many on the list, was "cuttings". He may not have the growing time to do this before he'll have to put his plant under the lights again for next winter (where they'll probably sulk rather than grow). Also, one response made reference to this plant not reacting well to the cutting process, making a cutting of this thickness problematic. So, how can he get better rootage on his figs? Here's my suggestion. 1. find the biggest shallow "pot" possible, a bulb pot, a cut down nursery pot or perhaps a wood box/tray. 2. cut one of the 4 roots off at a downward facing angle just before it takes the vertical turn and treat that root with rooting hormone. 3. plant in a coarse growing material, perlite, fine gravel, etc. with some organic mix added. 4. keep the plant watered as if the root was not cut, that is, just do the standard watering, monitored with the Persiano Pick. 5. next summer, perhaps about now or a little later, repot the plant and if the cut root has issued fine roots, then proceed by cutting two more roots and repeating the process. The new roots can be spread if they appear to be strong enough. If no new roots have grown then he'll know this doesn't work for him and/or this type of fig and try something else. 6. assuming everything has gone well, two years from now the last root can be treated and nebari development can begin in earnest. Now I try to stay with native (read "in zone") material, so I'm no expert. So if anyone has a better idea, improvements or corrections, I'm sure both Vladimir and I will be happy to hear them. Have fun - jay Jay Beckenbach - Melrose, FL - Zone 8b/9a - -----Original Message----- From: Vladimir ] Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 8:19 AM Subject: Nebary on fig -- how to? Hello, I train some 1 y.o. figs (ficus carica) grown from seeds. Those figs are about 2-3 cm (about 1 inch) thick, during the year they were repotted twice and cutted -- they grows very fast. I did nothing with roots. Yesterday I tried to develop nebary: I removed the soil from first fig's root and planned to place roots star-like, develope plain root system, etc. However, I found 4 finger-thick roots growed horisontally for 3 cm and then grows stright down. How to place such roots horisontally -- I can't imagine. I placed the tree on a rock, but I don't delighted by result. What shall I do? Gridle my trees or try to wire roots? Thank you, Vladimir. ************************************************** ************************** **** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ************************** **** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#10
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[IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to?
Xref: kermit rec.arts.bonsai:75740
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:58:37 -0400, you wrote: In this thread (which I've tagged to the original message), everyone seems to be missing the point. So if anyone has a better idea, improvements or corrections, I'm sure both Vladimir and I will be happy to hear them. My only comment would be that it isn't necessary to insult all of the previous contributors on the thread before making your own suggestions. Richard ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#11
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[IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to?
Richard Patefield wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 08:58:37 -0400, Jay wrote: In this thread (which I've tagged to the original message), everyone seems to be missing the point. So if anyone has a better idea, improvements or corrections, I'm sure both Vladimir and I will be happy to hear them. My only comment would be that it isn't necessary to insult all of the previous contributors on the thread before making your own suggestions. Richard I would agree with Richard, it's not necessary to insult previous contributors. Since I don't see that Jay did so, what's the point of mentioning it? "everyone seems to be missing the point" isn't an insult, it's an opinion, unoffensively stated. Given the habit of many of us to respond without carefully reading the post, and considering the author's location before offering advice, I'd say it's often justified. And Jay did follow it up with a request for corrections or ideas other than his, which is certainly fair, open-minded and uninsulting... Regards, Anita --- Northern Harford County, Maryland, USDA zone 6 "I am not bound for any public place, but for ground of my own where I have planted vines and orchard trees, and in the heat of the day climbed up into the healing shadow of the woods. Better than any argument is to rise at dawn and pick dew-wet red berries in a cup." ~Wendell Berry ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#12
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[IBC] Nebary on fig -- how to?
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 13:49:58 -0400, you wrote:
"everyone seems to be missing the point" isn't an insult,.. That would depend on whether someone was insulted by it. To me, it means that 'previous contributions are invalid'. This I find insulting when I had considered where Vladimir was from... Depending on where you are Vladimir... and I had read his message carefully. I stand by my original reply to Vladimir. You have your opinion and I have mine - sometimes they will differ. This is definitely OT now and I won't be contributing further on this thread. Richard ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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