Hi folks,

We recently received a grape bonsai from 1-800-FLOWERS, I know this
probably isn't a 'true' bonsai - it doesn't have any fruit, but it is
visually pleasing.

It was doing quite well for a while, but we went away for about 4-5
days and came back to discover a little 'fuzz' on some of the leaves.
Kind of looked like peach fuzz, or dust even. Should we be concerned?
It still seemed to be ok for a while, until recently some of the leaf
tips are getting brown and a few are falling off. I'm assuming this
is normal though, since the weather has been getting colder here in
Seattle.

Any help/advice on what to do would be appreciated!

Thanks,
-p

(Dong Gumong) wrote in message
We recently received a grape bonsai from 1-800-FLOWERS, I know this
probably isn't a 'true' bonsai - it doesn't have any fruit, but it is
visually pleasing.

A "true" bonsai is anything woody in a pot. Fruit isn't necessary.
However, it sounds mass-produced, so you should check our website for
advice on "mallsai"; you might have to repot in better soil.

It was doing quite well for a while, but we went away for about 4-5
days and came back to discover a little 'fuzz' on some of the leaves.

Is the plant outdoors? [if not, it ought to be]. If it is outdoors,
the grape has probably got powdery mildew, a disease that a grape
plant will get if there are other grapes within a few miles of it.
Onset is usually in late summer. It doesn't harm the plant, but is
ugly. You can either spray the plant every few weeks with a rotating
schedule of several fungicides labeled for powdery mildew (one alone
won't work for long; cooperative extension will help you pick the best
fungicides for your area), or just live with it. Good air circulation
will reduce the problem. The disadvantage with the cultivars of grape
sold as mass-market bonsai is that they are prone to many diseases.
You would have less problem with a wild grape you dug up yourself.

(Dong Gumong) wrote in message
We recently received a grape bonsai from 1-800-FLOWERS, I know this
probably isn't a 'true' bonsai - it doesn't have any fruit, but it is
visually pleasing.

A "true" bonsai is anything woody in a pot. Fruit isn't necessary.
However, it sounds mass-produced, so you should check our website for
advice on "mallsai"; you might have to repot in better soil.

It was doing quite well for a while, but we went away for about 4-5
days and came back to discover a little 'fuzz' on some of the leaves.

Is the plant outdoors? [if not, it ought to be]. If it is outdoors,
the grape has probably got powdery mildew, a disease that a grape
plant will get if there are other grapes within a few miles of it.
Onset is usually in late summer. It doesn't harm the plant, but is
ugly. You can either spray the plant every few weeks with a rotating
schedule of several fungicides labeled for powdery mildew (one alone
won't work for long; cooperative extension will help you pick the best
fungicides for your area), or just live with it. Good air circulation
will reduce the problem. The disadvantage with the cultivars of grape
sold as mass-market bonsai is that they are prone to many diseases.
You would have less problem with a wild grape you dug up yourself.

On 19 Sep 2004 at 21:28, Dong Gumong wrote:

Hi folks,

We recently received a grape bonsai from 1-800-FLOWERS, I know this
probably isn't a 'true' bonsai - it doesn't have any fruit, but it is
visually pleasing.

It was doing quite well for a while, but we went away for about 4-5
days and came back to discover a little 'fuzz' on some of the leaves.
Kind of looked like peach fuzz, or dust even. Should we be concerned?
It still seemed to be ok for a while, until recently some of the leaf
tips are getting brown and a few are falling off. I'm assuming this
is normal though, since the weather has been getting colder here in
Seattle.

Any help/advice on what to do would be appreciated!

Thanks,


The brown leaves and leaves falling probably are just normal
things in the Seattle area this time of year. I dunno about the
"fuzz." Can you describe it a bit more? Color. Upper part of
leaves or lower? All over? Does it rub off -- then come back?

A few words about grape bonsai:

1. They should be outdoors. I believe grapes do OK in the
seattle area, but some protection (out of the wind, south side
of house, etc.) is advisable in winter. Indoors is NOT good for
grapes.

2. They need regular pruning to get away from a vining habit.
Pruning should start in late winter (cutting it back to the bare
outline) then continue to shape all during the growing season.

3. Don't expect fruit for a few years.

4. They like acid soil, so any normal houseplant fertilizer --
weekly during the growing season -- should be OK. No need to
fertilize in winter when they're leafless.

5. They do NOT like wet feet, so need a soil that drains well.
When you water -- from the top, NOT by submerging it in a bucket
-- water should start running out the drainage hole almost
immediately. Water ONLY when the soil feels dry, not by any
kind of schedule. As Billy said, if there were rocks glued on
to the soil surface, remove them. Fill that space with a GOOD
potting soil (not that powdery black stuff you get at Wal-Mart
and other places of that ilk).

6. Grape leaves tend to be a bit large, so complete removal of
the leaves in early mid summer helps give the leaves a bit more
perspective in relation to the size of the plant (leave the
petioles [leaf stems] on the plant; they'll fall off as new
leaves appear). Fertilize just before you do this.

Enjoy.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

On 19 Sep 2004 at 21:28, Dong Gumong wrote:

Hi folks,

We recently received a grape bonsai from 1-800-FLOWERS, I know this
probably isn't a 'true' bonsai - it doesn't have any fruit, but it is
visually pleasing.

It was doing quite well for a while, but we went away for about 4-5
days and came back to discover a little 'fuzz' on some of the leaves.
Kind of looked like peach fuzz, or dust even. Should we be concerned?
It still seemed to be ok for a while, until recently some of the leaf
tips are getting brown and a few are falling off. I'm assuming this
is normal though, since the weather has been getting colder here in
Seattle.

Any help/advice on what to do would be appreciated!

Thanks,


The brown leaves and leaves falling probably are just normal
things in the Seattle area this time of year. I dunno about the
"fuzz." Can you describe it a bit more? Color. Upper part of
leaves or lower? All over? Does it rub off -- then come back?

A few words about grape bonsai:

1. They should be outdoors. I believe grapes do OK in the
seattle area, but some protection (out of the wind, south side
of house, etc.) is advisable in winter. Indoors is NOT good for
grapes.

2. They need regular pruning to get away from a vining habit.
Pruning should start in late winter (cutting it back to the bare
outline) then continue to shape all during the growing season.

3. Don't expect fruit for a few years.

4. They like acid soil, so any normal houseplant fertilizer --
weekly during the growing season -- should be OK. No need to
fertilize in winter when they're leafless.

5. They do NOT like wet feet, so need a soil that drains well.
When you water -- from the top, NOT by submerging it in a bucket
-- water should start running out the drainage hole almost
immediately. Water ONLY when the soil feels dry, not by any
kind of schedule. As Billy said, if there were rocks glued on
to the soil surface, remove them. Fill that space with a GOOD
potting soil (not that powdery black stuff you get at Wal-Mart
and other places of that ilk).

6. Grape leaves tend to be a bit large, so complete removal of
the leaves in early mid summer helps give the leaves a bit more
perspective in relation to the size of the plant (leave the
petioles [leaf stems] on the plant; they'll fall off as new
leaves appear). Fertilize just before you do this.

Enjoy.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

A "true" bonsai is anything woody in a pot.

I would disagree with that definition. A true bonsai is a woody plant in a pot
which has been styled to look like a full-size tree in miniature.

You would have less problem with a wild grape you dug up yourself.

Another solution is to grow other plants in the same family which are
grape-like, but with smaller leaves. Porcelain berry is sometimes used.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dong Gumong"
Subject: [IBC] Grape Bonsai Help


It was doing quite well for a while, but we went away for about 4-5
days and came back to discover a little 'fuzz' on some of the leaves.
Kind of looked like peach fuzz, or dust even. Should we be concerned?
It still seemed to be ok for a while, until recently some of the leaf
tips are getting brown and a few are falling off. I'm assuming this
is normal though, since the weather has been getting colder here in
Seattle.

Any help/advice on what to do would be appreciated!

Thanks,
-p

Hi,

I live in the Puyallup area, 45-50 miles south of Seattle. I have a grape
for the last 4 yrs. This time of the year the leaves are turning and
falling off. By the middle of October I will have this healed in for
winter.

This year I had the sweetest tasting bunch of grapes. I actually got them
before the opossum.

As for the fuzz, I some on mine when I first brought it home. I washed it
off and put the grape in a sunny place outside. I have never had the
problem again.
I did find out that it is happy in the east-south east planter of my yard.

Between everyone here on the list and good common sense, you will end up
with a nice tree.

Good luck,

Chriss Flagg
Puyallup, Washington
The Other Washington

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dong Gumong"
Subject: [IBC] Grape Bonsai Help


It was doing quite well for a while, but we went away for about 4-5
days and came back to discover a little 'fuzz' on some of the leaves.
Kind of looked like peach fuzz, or dust even. Should we be concerned?
It still seemed to be ok for a while, until recently some of the leaf
tips are getting brown and a few are falling off. I'm assuming this
is normal though, since the weather has been getting colder here in
Seattle.

Any help/advice on what to do would be appreciated!

Thanks,
-p

Hi,

I live in the Puyallup area, 45-50 miles south of Seattle. I have a grape
for the last 4 yrs. This time of the year the leaves are turning and
falling off. By the middle of October I will have this healed in for
winter.

This year I had the sweetest tasting bunch of grapes. I actually got them
before the opossum.

As for the fuzz, I some on mine when I first brought it home. I washed it
off and put the grape in a sunny place outside. I have never had the
problem again.
I did find out that it is happy in the east-south east planter of my yard.

Between everyone here on the list and good common sense, you will end up
with a nice tree.

Good luck,

Chriss Flagg
Puyallup, Washington
The Other Washington

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

On 20 Sep 2004 at 22:47, Chriss Flagg wrote:

Any help/advice on what to do would be appreciated!

Thanks,
-p

Hi,

I live in the Puyallup area, 45-50 miles south of Seattle. I have a grape
for the last 4 yrs. This time of the year the leaves are turning and
falling off. By the middle of October I will have this healed in for
winter.

This year I had the sweetest tasting bunch of grapes. I actually got them
before the opossum.

As for the fuzz, I some on mine when I first brought it home. I washed it
off and put the grape in a sunny place outside. I have never had the
problem again.
I did find out that it is happy in the east-south east planter of my yard.

Between everyone here on the list and good common sense, you will end up
with a nice tree.

Good advice. Until Nina wrote, I'd forgotten about powdery
mildew. I'm sure that's it. A sunny, breezy spot is the BEST
control for PM.

But if it is indoors, get it outside! Now!

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

On 20 Sep 2004 at 22:47, Chriss Flagg wrote:

Any help/advice on what to do would be appreciated!

Thanks,
-p

Hi,

I live in the Puyallup area, 45-50 miles south of Seattle. I have a grape
for the last 4 yrs. This time of the year the leaves are turning and
falling off. By the middle of October I will have this healed in for
winter.

This year I had the sweetest tasting bunch of grapes. I actually got them
before the opossum.

As for the fuzz, I some on mine when I first brought it home. I washed it
off and put the grape in a sunny place outside. I have never had the
problem again.
I did find out that it is happy in the east-south east planter of my yard.

Between everyone here on the list and good common sense, you will end up
with a nice tree.

Good advice. Until Nina wrote, I'd forgotten about powdery
mildew. I'm sure that's it. A sunny, breezy spot is the BEST
control for PM.

But if it is indoors, get it outside! Now!

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

On 20 Sep 2004 at 22:47, Chriss Flagg wrote:

Any help/advice on what to do would be appreciated!

Thanks,
-p

Hi,

I live in the Puyallup area, 45-50 miles south of Seattle. I have a grape
for the last 4 yrs. This time of the year the leaves are turning and
falling off. By the middle of October I will have this healed in for
winter.

This year I had the sweetest tasting bunch of grapes. I actually got them
before the opossum.

As for the fuzz, I some on mine when I first brought it home. I washed it
off and put the grape in a sunny place outside. I have never had the
problem again.
I did find out that it is happy in the east-south east planter of my yard.

Between everyone here on the list and good common sense, you will end up
with a nice tree.

Good advice. Until Nina wrote, I'd forgotten about powdery
mildew. I'm sure that's it. A sunny, breezy spot is the BEST
control for PM.

But if it is indoors, get it outside! Now!

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Iris Cohen wrote:

A "true" bonsai is anything woody in a pot.

I would disagree with that definition. A true bonsai is a woody plant in a pot
which has been styled to look like a full-size tree in miniature.


This is a tangent, but a related one. Consider this as a possibility--a bonsai can
not only represent a full-sized tree in miniature, but can also represent a tree
that has been dwarfed by nature. Another thought--the issue of scale comes up as
well. Not scale as in those troublesome insects, but scale in terms of leaf size.
I know this is an issue that is kicked around endlessly, but it is not possible,
with a few exceptions, to get leaves down to scale with the trunk size, with
junipers and kingsville boxwoods, Hokkaido elms and other Chinese elms, and a few
other plants as exceptions. Having said this, I'm not advocating bonsai that are
12 inches high with 6 inch long leaves either. But there has to be some
flexibility.

I realize Iris didn't raise this issue--it's mine. I'm just throwing it in for
consideration.


snip

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Iris Cohen wrote:

A "true" bonsai is anything woody in a pot.

I would disagree with that definition. A true bonsai is a woody plant in a pot
which has been styled to look like a full-size tree in miniature.


This is a tangent, but a related one. Consider this as a possibility--a bonsai can
not only represent a full-sized tree in miniature, but can also represent a tree
that has been dwarfed by nature. Another thought--the issue of scale comes up as
well. Not scale as in those troublesome insects, but scale in terms of leaf size.
I know this is an issue that is kicked around endlessly, but it is not possible,
with a few exceptions, to get leaves down to scale with the trunk size, with
junipers and kingsville boxwoods, Hokkaido elms and other Chinese elms, and a few
other plants as exceptions. Having said this, I'm not advocating bonsai that are
12 inches high with 6 inch long leaves either. But there has to be some
flexibility.

I realize Iris didn't raise this issue--it's mine. I'm just throwing it in for
consideration.


snip

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++