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[IBC] Elms
In a message dated 5/12/05 12:02:26 AM, Steve writes:
The cork bark which I think is called Niri. This is a common error attached to various cultivars. Nire (sic) is simply the Japanese word for elm, and gets stuck on various trees because of misunderstandings in translation. Cork bark elm is Ulmus parvifolia 'Corticosa.' I also purchased a few Cedar Elm , one of which appears to be a Winged Elm, Cedar elm is U. crassifolia. Winged elm is U. alata. Cedar elm may occasionally exhibit corky wings, hence the confusion. Yatzebutza, which also has very tiny leaves. 'Yatsubusa' (sic) is another dwarf cultivar of Chinese elm, U. parvifolia. 'Seiju' is probably better. I have tried Haikkado but have had little success. I was advised that Haikkado requires very cold winter temps to do well. 'Hokkaido' (sic) (also a cultivar of Chinese elm) is very challenging. It is almost impossible to wire. It is my understanding that 'Hokkaido' is the most tender variety, and is grown indoors as a subtropical following a cool rest in fall. At least that is the practice in Zones 5 & 6. Iris ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Sue Crabtree++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#2
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: 'Hokkaido' (sic) (also a cultivar of Chinese elm) is very challenging. It is almost impossible to wire. It is my understanding that 'Hokkaido' is the most tender variety, and is grown indoors as a subtropical following a cool rest in fall. At least that is the practice in Zones 5 & 6. I only see Hokkaido in cold greenhouses in the winter. I have never been able to wire them. Branches are too brittle. Jiu San only hept them in the cold greenhouse. Seiju is a sport of Yatzabutza and I think Seiju is a better tree to work with. I also seen Cork bark elms in nurseries right or wrong labelled as Nire SteveW ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Sue Crabtree++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#3
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Steve:
Seiju is a sport from Hokkaido, not yatsabusa. Yatsabusa may be related, but it has a narrower leaf & the bark is less corky & isn't it browner? Carl Young grew hokkaido elms by the thousands at his Seiju-en Bonsai Nursery in Lodi, California. One of them grew an unusual branch, from which Carl made a few cuttings. The next year he made a huge number of cuttings & grew them in his fields. He sold them from the field for $35 each. I think this all started in the early '70's & was documented in International Bonsai Magazine, probably in the '80's. A few years ago, Boon (my teacher ) said "Look." and showed me a small hokkaido elm. It was perfectly normal, except it had an unusual branch - a mutation that looked exactly like Seiju. I think that such a discovery today would be worth a lot more than $35/tree, so I figure that Boon missed making a small fortune by merely, perhaps, twenty-five years! I think Hokkaido & Seiju are dwarf versions of 'corticosa', All are great bonsai subjects: Hokkaido is beautiful, but too fragile for me (no wiring allowed!), Seiju is the best compromise of leaf size & vigor and 'corticosa' has enormous vigor, is the least brittle of the three and is great for shohin to monster-sized bonsai. Mas Imazumi, my first teacher, had no elm bonsai because they grow so fast. He said "You have to pinch them every morning and you have to pinch them every afternoon. And then you have to pinch them in your dreams..." Jim Gremel On May 12, 2005, at 6:23 AM, Steve wachs wrote: 'Hokkaido' (sic) (also a cultivar of Chinese elm) is very challenging. It is almost impossible to wire. It is my understanding that 'Hokkaido' is the most tender variety, and is grown indoors as a subtropical following a cool rest in fall. At least that is the practice in Zones 5 & 6. I only see Hokkaido in cold greenhouses in the winter. I have never been able to wire them. Branches are too brittle. Jiu San only hept them in the cold greenhouse. Seiju is a sport of Yatzabutza and I think Seiju is a better tree to work with. I also seen Cork bark elms in nurseries right or wrong labelled as Nire SteveW ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Sue Crabtree++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#4
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Jim Gremel wrote:
Steve: Seiju is a sport from Hokkaido, not yatsabusa. Yatsabusa may be related, but it has a narrower leaf & the bark is less corky & isn't it browner? Carl Young grew hokkaido elms by the thousands at his Seiju-en Bonsai Nursery in Lodi, California. One of them grew an unusual branch, from which Carl made a few cuttings. The next year he made a huge number of cuttings & grew them in his fields. He sold them from the field for $35 each. I think this all started in the early '70's & was documented in International Bonsai Magazine, probably in the '80's. A few years ago, Boon (my teacher ) said "Look." and showed me a small hokkaido elm. It was perfectly normal, except it had an unusual branch - a mutation that looked exactly like Seiju. I think that such a discovery today would be worth a lot more than $35/tree, so I figure that Boon missed making a small fortune by merely, perhaps, twenty-five years! Jim It is also my understanding that both 'Yatsubusa' and 'Seiju' are sports of 'Hokkaido', and that most likely that 'Hokkaido' is a sport of 'Corticosa'. 'Hokkaido' itself is not a stable cultivar and sports readily. I have seen dozens of larger leafed sports from my eighty large stock plants. Most of these are similar too, or identical to 'Seiju', some are full size 'Corticosa' -like sports. The most interesting of these larger leaf sports so far (for me) is one that has formed huge bark plates similar to cork bark Pinus thunbergii cvs. I have named this one 'Plate Bark'. I have propagated it, but haven't released it yet because I want to make sure that the offspring will exhibit the same plate character of the parent branch; there is some doubt that it will do this. I have the feeling that the sport may have simply induced the plate bark furrows on the 'Hokkaido' portion alone, and won't continue that pattern into the new sport section. I have waited about ten years for a definitive answer, but the result is still a few years off. I examined the plant recently and it appears to forming furrows into the sport section, but I still can't be sure. If it does reproduce these plates, it will be a very exciting development. The bark is far superior to either 'Seiju' or 'Corticosa' in my opinion. Brent EvergreenGardenworks.com ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Sue Crabtree++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#5
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Jim Gremel wrote:
they (Elms) grow so fast. He said "You have to pinch them every morning and you have to pinch them every afternoon. And then you have to pinch them in your dreams..." A-men! I have a couple -- a mame and a small shohin -- and I can't imagine caring for anything larger. Jim Lewis - - This economy is a wholly owned subsidiary of the environment. - Gaylord Nelson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Sue Crabtree++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#6
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In a message dated 5/12/05 9:23:57 AM, SteveWachs writes:
Seiju is a sport of Yatzabutza and I think Seiju is a better tree to work with. Where did you get that information? Everything I have read indicates that 'Seiju' is a sport of 'Hokkaido.' It turned up in the Seiju-En Nursery in California. I don't recall the date, some time in the late 20th Century. I also seen Cork bark elms in nurseries right or wrong*labelled as Nire I have also had people swear to me that U. parvifolia 'Fuiri' was "Nire," due to miscommunication with Japanese growers. Unfortunately, the laws in some states, requiring nursery stock to be true to name, do not include pot plants. Iris We had a killing frost last night. Now I have to go put all the orchids & tender bonsai back outside. ;-( ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Sue Crabtree++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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