Kits, don't you think there is a difference between a wife beater and
someone taking a plant out of nature to take care of it and do everything to
make sure it lives for a loooong time??

Remember we all have different opinions and I was just expressing mine so no
need to attack me personally.

Jo
Austria

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Jo Trojer wrote:
Kits, don't you think there is a difference between a wife beater and
someone taking a plant out of nature to take care of it and do everything to
make sure it lives for a loooong time??

Remember we all have different opinions and I was just expressing mine so no
need to attack me personally.



There's obeying the law, and then there's ethical behavior.
Believe it or not, there can be a difference.

Besides, the plant might probably be quite "happy" where it
is. :-)

And what about the person who follows in your footsteps on
that public (government) land and doesn't get to see that
plant because you have taken it for your own selfish pleasure.

Of course, thievery is thievery, no matter what is taken or
what the value -- intrinsic or otherwise. That's probably
unlawful as well as unethical.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - When we
see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to
use it with love and respect - Aldo Leopold - A Sand County
Almanac

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Jo Trojer wrote:
Kits, don't you think there is a difference between a wife beater and
someone taking a plant out of nature to take care of it and do everything to
make sure it lives for a loooong time??


It depends whether or not that person is hitting his wife with the
plant.

Well, this topic certainly touches upon several key points. I suppose such collection would also include raking the West of California Junipers, which have been masterfully carved by nature's hands for decades.

Clearly, the laws must be respected for the collection of specimens. Beyond the laws and with respect to ethical behavior, when has a particular species been over collected?

Has the Itoigawa Juniper become a thing of the past as a result of over collecting?

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lewis
To:
Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:45:27 -0400
Subject: [IBC] Yamadori and the Law...


Jo Trojer wrote:
Kits, don't you think there is a difference between a wife beater and
someone taking a plant out of nature to take care of it and do everything to
make sure it lives for a loooong time??
Remember we all have different opinions and I was just expressing mine so no
need to attack me personally.

There's obeying the law, and then there's ethical behavior. Believe it or not, there can be a difference.

Besides, the plant might probably be quite "happy" where it is. :-)

And what about the person who follows in your footsteps on that public (government) land and doesn't get to see that plant because you have taken it for your own selfish pleasure.

Of course, thievery is thievery, no matter what is taken or what the value -- intrinsic or otherwise. That's probably unlawful as well as unethical.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect - Aldo Leopold - A Sand County Almanac

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

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On Jun 6, 2005, at 3:27 PM, Michael Persiano wrote:

Well, this topic certainly touches upon several key points. I suppose
such collection would also include raking the West of California
Junipers, which have been masterfully carved by nature's hands for
decades.

Clearly, the laws must be respected for the collection of specimens.
Beyond the laws and with respect to ethical behavior, when has a
particular species been over collected?

Has the Itoigawa Juniper become a thing of the past as a result of
over collecting?

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob


Several threads on BonsaTALK cover this topic ad nauseum:

http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthread.php?t=11249
http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthread.php?t=11311
http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthread.php?t=11341

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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Michael Persiano wrote:
Well, this topic certainly touches upon several key
points. I suppose such collection would also include
raking the West of California Junipers, which have been
masterfully carved by nature's hands for decades.

Clearly, the laws must be respected for the collection of
specimens. Beyond the laws and with respect to ethical
behavior, when has a particular species been over
collected?

I'm told that at least three species of wild orchid in Sourh
Florida are now extinct because of collecting. Ditto a few
species of bromiliad. I know that several species of the
colorful tree snails that used to live in the Florida keys
are now almost gone, again because of collectors. Several
species of parrot-type birds are becoming very scarce
because of over collecting, and tropical butterflies of many
species have become quite rare for the same reason.

And then, there's the entire ocean fisheries, the passsenger
pigeon, the dodo. . . .

Several southwestern species of cacti are in danger because
of collectors -- strangely enough from people who are
environmentally conscious enough to not want to waste water
on a green lawn in the desert, but who cause the decimation
of the desert environment by collectors who then sell the
cactus to landscape companies.


Has the Itoigawa Juniper become a thing of the past as a
result of over collecting?




I read that professional collectors just about did away with
shimpaku in the Japanese mountains and were THE reason
that the Japanese government began to put severe conditions
on collecting.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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One of my new Japanese white pine projects was "collected" from a bonsai nursery field in Japan. There, the trees are specifically cultivated for use in bonsai culture. People like Brent are rare; however, it would be great to see additional individuals within the US migrating towards this horticultural model.

One of the greatest challenges for the "grower" of potensai is the intensive maintenance that must be executed on the fielded trees. Growing specimens for use in bonsai culture is clearly an art.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lewis
To:
Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:16:22 -0400
Subject: [IBC] Yamadori and the Law...


Michael Persiano wrote:
Well, this topic certainly touches upon several key
points. I suppose such collection would also include
raking the West of California Junipers, which have been
masterfully carved by nature's hands for decades.
Clearly, the laws must be respected for the collection of
specimens. Beyond the laws and with respect to ethical
behavior, when has a particular species been over
collected?

I'm told that at least three species of wild orchid in Sourh Florida are now extinct because of collecting. Ditto a few species of bromiliad. I know that several species of the colorful tree snails that used to live in the Florida keys are now almost gone, again because of collectors. Several species of parrot-type birds are becoming very scarce because of over collecting, and tropical butterflies of many species have become quite rare for the same reason.

And then, there's the entire ocean fisheries, the passsenger pigeon, the dodo. . . .

Several southwestern species of cacti are in danger because of collectors -- strangely enough from people who are environmentally conscious enough to not want to waste water on a green lawn in the desert, but who cause the decimation of the desert environment by collectors who then sell the cactus to landscape companies.

Has the Itoigawa Juniper become a thing of the past as a
result of over collecting?


I read that professional collectors just about did away with shimpaku in the Japanese mountains and were THE reason that the Japanese government began to put severe conditions on collecting.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Kevin Bailey++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

************************************************** ******************************
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************************************************** ******************************
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