writes:
James wrote:
This may be off topic but considering the chemical vs organic
arguement, I think it should be included here.

A google of DDT and death will result in articles such as

http://info-pollution.com/moreddt.htm

I think we can have an interesting discussion after reading several of
those articles.

Is DDT more harmful than useful?


DDT would be great for eradicating malaria. IMHO, malaria is the reason
Africa is a backwards continent that never will amount to much. If they
could beat malaria, Africa could join the 20th century -- or maybe even
the 21st. g

DDT is relatively non-toxic to humans, and it doesn't take much to spray
the inside walls of houses to kill the mosquitoes.

Developed countries that have already beaten malaria can get by without
DDT. We tend to use way too much pesticides in general.

Best regards,
Bob

I'm still wondering why there is not more widespread use of products such
as mosquito dunks, they work and work very well. It seems to be a more
effective method than spraying chemicals. I take special pleasure in
placing them in my fish pond knowing the mosquitoes will come, lay their
eggs, and end that lineage. How would the cost of providing such
substances compare with the cost of DDT and other sprays? Seems killing
the larvae is the key as they never get into the air to bite and breed.

There must be a practical way to provide similar product (grains instead
of dunks?) and spread/apply it. There is no harm to any creature or plant
other than mosquito larvae.

This is a sincere question. Why isn't that practice being used?

Glenna

Glenna Rose wrote:
writes:

James wrote:

This may be off topic but considering the chemical vs organic
arguement, I think it should be included here.

A google of DDT and death will result in articles such as

http://info-pollution.com/moreddt.htm

I think we can have an interesting discussion after reading several of
those articles.

Is DDT more harmful than useful?


DDT would be great for eradicating malaria. IMHO, malaria is the reason
Africa is a backwards continent that never will amount to much. If they
could beat malaria, Africa could join the 20th century -- or maybe even
the 21st. g

DDT is relatively non-toxic to humans, and it doesn't take much to spray
the inside walls of houses to kill the mosquitoes.

Developed countries that have already beaten malaria can get by without
DDT. We tend to use way too much pesticides in general.

Best regards,
Bob


I'm still wondering why there is not more widespread use of products such
as mosquito dunks, they work and work very well. It seems to be a more
effective method than spraying chemicals. I take special pleasure in
placing them in my fish pond knowing the mosquitoes will come, lay their
eggs, and end that lineage. How would the cost of providing such
substances compare with the cost of DDT and other sprays? Seems killing
the larvae is the key as they never get into the air to bite and breed.

There must be a practical way to provide similar product (grains instead
of dunks?) and spread/apply it. There is no harm to any creature or plant
other than mosquito larvae.

This is a sincere question. Why isn't that practice being used?

Glenna



I don't know; I suspect it's because of the difficulty in finding all
the little pockets of water where mosquitoes can breed.

The way spraying the houses works is the mosquito likes to rest a bit
after feeding. So by spraying the inside walls of the houses/huts, the
anopheles (sp?) mosquito that has just bitten an already infected person
dies before it gets a chance to bite somebody else. So I suppose they
are trying to eradicate the plasmodia parasite itself moreso than just
the vector that spreads it.

The lesson of DDT use in the USA is that indescrimate overuse of DDT
(and probably any pesticide) is bad for the enviroment; it accumulates
and concentrates in the food chain. And because of this amplification
effect, we need to be careful even with low pesticide usage rates. But
people like to oversimplify things and they like to blame inanimate
objects as being inherently good or evil.

Interesting factoid: people who are carriers of sickle-cell anemia have
a natural resistance to acute malaria.

Best regards,
Bob

On Date: 5 Mar 2006 09:21:55 -0800,
"James" stated:
Organic seeds are in my opinion a waste of money. Organic
farming doesn't not change the genetics of a plant.

"zxcvbob" later, in a different thread, on
Date: 12 Mar 2006, indicates:
Interesting factoid: people who are carriers of sickle-cell anemia
have a natural resistance to acute malaria.

Meanwhile, over 100 years ago there lived a man named Charles
Robert Darwin who wrote a book.

Charles Darwin (12 February 1809 - 19 April 1882) wrote in
1859, "I have called this principle, by which each slight variation,
if useful, is preserved, by the term Natural Selection." The full title
of the book, commonly referenced as "The Origin of Species":

"On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or
The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"

On a side note, a hairless man advances that he represents the next
step in the evolution of man.

I counter that the advancement may not amount to anything until he
reproduces the trait and it displays itself in his children or grand-
children. For him, some more work follows.

My votes:
No to DDT.
No to monosodium glutamate (MSG).
No to potasium benzoate and no to sodium benzoate.
No to aspartame.

James also stated that it would take years to go "organic". However,
organic only takes one thing, work and perserverence. Last year my
avocado tree produced about 60 avocadoes, the young mango tree
produced 1 mango, the pineapple plant grew 1 pineapple but now
I have 3 pineapple plants. The tomatoes struggled but I did get over
30 cherry tomatoes off of one vine (and its still producing) and 10
beautiful cucumbers off of several vines. I experienced aphids, slugs,
bugs, butterflies, flies, misquitoes, wasps, lady bugs, and I hope to
see a ton of bumble bees within the next week (the avocado tree
attracts them for one or two days where they swarm over the tree).
This year I'm interplanting marigold, marjoram and nasturtium in
with the tomatoes, and there's now four or five mustard leaf
plants. The orange tree produced bitter oranges but it produced
a quite a few oranges (60 or more).

The mango tree, maybe 5 years old is fully blossomed and beautiful.
It pales compared to the much older mango trees in the neighbor's
yard but I'm quite happy to see all these blossoms on it. Maybe I'll
get 4 or 5 mangoes this year. A pineapple plant took off not far from
it, and then not far from that are 4 or 5 carrots that grow very slowly
(for almost a year, maybe longer). I pulled up a carrot and supposedly
it grows to 12 inches, but this one only lengthed 5 inches. I need some
advice on getting the carrots to grow better.

Of course there's the things I'm disappointed in, the peas and the
green beas tend to fail. I keep planting them, but this time I'm
attempting cow-peas instead of green peas.

I planted a mustard seed from a jar of mustard seeds (over four
years old) and it took and bolted much quicker than the other
mustard seed I planted (Florida broadleaf variety). The Florida
broadleaf mustard takes a while longer to bolt but produces a
lot of tasty leaves.

The nasturtium tastes great and it's the first time I've ever eaten
nasturtium. There's a lot of different pepper growing, and I noted
that a tomato plant planted next to one pepper plant, produced
a lot more peppers on that particular pepper plant. Am I mistaken,
or do tomatoes benefit pepper plants (specifically a serrano pepper).
In fact, I'm quite positive the serrano pepper plant benefited the
tomato plant as well (cherry tomatoes from a seed taken out of a
store bought cherry tomato).

Jim Carlock
Post replies to the group.

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 16:00:13 -0800, (Glenna Rose)
wrote:


I'm still wondering why there is not more widespread use of products such
as mosquito dunks, they work and work very well. It seems to be a more
effective method than spraying chemicals. I take special pleasure in
placing them in my fish pond knowing the mosquitoes will come, lay their
eggs, and end that lineage. How would the cost of providing such
substances compare with the cost of DDT and other sprays? Seems killing
the larvae is the key as they never get into the air to bite and breed.

There must be a practical way to provide similar product (grains instead
of dunks?) and spread/apply it. There is no harm to any creature or plant
other than mosquito larvae.

This is a sincere question. Why isn't that practice being used?

My swag is money and logistics. How much Bt subspecies israaelenses
would it take to treat a lake? How do you treat a river and not have
it wash away? How do you get it into all those tiny puddles and bits
of standing water that aren't obvious?

And, with the constant political disruptions and civil wars that seem
to sweep across Africa, how would you establish the 5 or 10 year
program that it would take to eradicate the disease?

It's a good idea, if the dunks could be put in the hands of folks that
need them. But...shrug



Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn"

(Glenna Rose) writes:
I'm still wondering why there is not more widespread use of products such
as mosquito dunks, they work and work very well. It seems to be a more
effective method than spraying chemicals. I take special pleasure in
placing them in my fish pond knowing the mosquitoes will come, lay their
eggs, and end that lineage. How would the cost of providing such
substances compare with the cost of DDT and other sprays? Seems killing
the larvae is the key as they never get into the air to bite and breed.

Some years ago I read a science brief that it had been discovered that
during the host stage of malaria (when a person's blood is infected) the
organism is part plant, i.e., it contains chloroplasts, IIRC. What benefit
chloroplasts could offer the parasite was not suggested. But it was
theorised that with this fact in mind, it might at some future stage be
possible to attack the disease by administering something as cheap and
simple as a safe-for-humans weedkiller, e.g., of the glyphosate genre.
Since then, I have heard nothing more on this amazing peculiarity of
malaria.

This being a group dealing with plants, I thought I'd just mention it--in
the faint hope that another avid reader of science might be able to
corroborate my recollection. No one else has been able to. :-(
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)