Howdy!

My wife and I are embarking on a "semi-retirement homesteading"
adventure on 13 acres on the central Texas Gulf Coast.

The land has not been in agricultural production in at least 15 years,
this being the time period we've owned it.

When last it was, it was in watermelons. In fact, it is textbook
watermelon land, since it is fine deep sand.

Our reasons are both economic and philosophical. Although we have no
for-profit aspirations we aspire to eventually cultivate at least 10
acres. The reason for this is so that in 5 years we hope to be
elegible for an agricultural use property tax exemption.

My wife loves to garden. Without doubt she'll be the one taking the
lead, but I am also enthusiastic. We have a dinky Farmall Cub tractor,
a 3 row garden plow, and a disk.

We are about to place an order for some seed stock from "Native Seed
Search". We expect to concentrate on "the three sisters" corn, beans,
and squash. But we're eager to companion plant some other things as
well.

As the project evolves I'm sure I'll have lots of additional questions.

But for now, the burning question is: How big of a plot to plant?

An acre, which, if I'm not mistaken, is 220' x 220', contains 44,000
square feet. Therefore, one acre in corn is 44,000 plants! Is this
about right?

If even approximately correct, it would appear that hand harvesting a
single acre of corn would be a daunting challenge for two people who
are not mechanized beyond the aforesaid dinky Cub tractor.

I will genuinely appreciate some of the experienced souls in here
providing me a reality check on what our realistic goals should be.
Since our entire 13 acres is already cleared and is all sand, we
thought a reasonable long term goal would be to plant 3 acres each
season, then move over. Thus, every fourth year we'd come back to the
original plot.

Without asking you to ..er.. "take us to raise" would you please orient
us? If it's to point us to a book or a web site that's more than fine.
In fact, I just ordered "5 acres and independence" but it hasn't
arrived in the mail yet. It may very well have the answers I'm
seeking.

Finally, and on the assumption we plant a manageable size, can corn be
intercropped with peanuts? I do not think our soil is ideal for corn
since it is somewhat shy of humus. But I'll wager peanuts would grow
like the dickens.

Any other suggestions you care to toss out, especially as to companion
planting, will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Vernon

On Mon, 15 May 2006 17:12:03 -0700, vtuck wrote:

Howdy!

My wife and I are embarking on a "semi-retirement homesteading" adventure
on 13 acres on the central Texas Gulf Coast.

The land has not been in agricultural production in at least 15 years,
this being the time period we've owned it.

When last it was, it was in watermelons. In fact, it is textbook
watermelon land, since it is fine deep sand.

Our reasons are both economic and philosophical. Although we have no
for-profit aspirations we aspire to eventually cultivate at least 10
acres. The reason for this is so that in 5 years we hope to be elegible
for an agricultural use property tax exemption.

My wife loves to garden. Without doubt she'll be the one taking the lead,
but I am also enthusiastic. We have a dinky Farmall Cub tractor, a 3 row
garden plow, and a disk.

We are about to place an order for some seed stock from "Native Seed
Search". We expect to concentrate on "the three sisters" corn, beans, and
squash. But we're eager to companion plant some other things as well.

As the project evolves I'm sure I'll have lots of additional questions.

But for now, the burning question is: How big of a plot to plant?

An acre, which, if I'm not mistaken, is 220' x 220', contains 44,000
square feet. Therefore, one acre in corn is 44,000 plants! Is this about
right?

If even approximately correct, it would appear that hand harvesting a
single acre of corn would be a daunting challenge for two people who are
not mechanized beyond the aforesaid dinky Cub tractor.

I will genuinely appreciate some of the experienced souls in here
providing me a reality check on what our realistic goals should be. Since
our entire 13 acres is already cleared and is all sand, we thought a
reasonable long term goal would be to plant 3 acres each season, then move
over. Thus, every fourth year we'd come back to the original plot.

Without asking you to ..er.. "take us to raise" would you please orient
us? If it's to point us to a book or a web site that's more than fine.
In fact, I just ordered "5 acres and independence" but it hasn't
arrived in the mail yet. It may very well have the answers I'm seeking.

Finally, and on the assumption we plant a manageable size, can corn be
intercropped with peanuts? I do not think our soil is ideal for corn
since it is somewhat shy of humus. But I'll wager peanuts would grow like
the dickens.

Any other suggestions you care to toss out, especially as to companion
planting, will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Vernon

You know your land can grow watermelons so why don't you just plant those?
If I were you I'd start with a very small crop this year so you can get an
idea about how much work it's going to be. It seems silly to commit
yourself to a life of back breaking labor just to get a tax break.

Well, that's the reason for the question. Stated another way,

At what point (stated in acreage or square feet) does gardening cease
to be fun and therapeutic?

And while we do intend to grow some melons, we want to intersperse
them, and everything else we plant, with suitable companion plants.

While information on companion planting is widely available on the
internet and elsewhere, my reasons for posting here are to hear the
experiences of real people.

As to the agriculture exemption: My first objective is to find
experienced people's view on the largest size garden that two or four
people with modest mechanized resources can reasonably hope to plant,
tend, and harvest.

Let's say the collective answer is: "two acres". In such case, I will
plant EIGHT acres in grass and lease it for hay cutting. Thus, I'll
still have the 10 acres elegible.

Thanks!
Vernon

Vernon,
I think you're confusing farming...with gardening. Gardening on small
(measured in feet X feet) is what most of the fine folks in this group are
involved with. When you start getting into 1/2 acre your talking truck
farming and marketing your produce. When you talk about 3 or more acres your
talking full blown farming with a dramatic increase in equipment and labor!
There is no way on God's green earth two people can manage a 3 acre garden!
I have always felt "diversity" is the key to any business venture. My advice
to you would be to sub-divide your "initial" 3 acres in 3 seperate crops.
Corn...watermelon...and Tomatoes. Establish a "You pick-it" type of harvest
from Re-sellers and the general public.
Watermelons..."U-Pick" 1.00 each. Corn....10 cents an
ear...tomato's...well...get as MUCH as you can ! It's hard enough putting
the crop in and raising it. It's absolute hell harvesting, storing,
marketing, transporting and collecting income on a crop.
Hope this helps,
Dave
wrote in message
oups.com...
Well, that's the reason for the question. Stated another way,

At what point (stated in acreage or square feet) does gardening cease
to be fun and therapeutic?

And while we do intend to grow some melons, we want to intersperse
them, and everything else we plant, with suitable companion plants.

While information on companion planting is widely available on the
internet and elsewhere, my reasons for posting here are to hear the
experiences of real people.

As to the agriculture exemption: My first objective is to find
experienced people's view on the largest size garden that two or four
people with modest mechanized resources can reasonably hope to plant,
tend, and harvest.

Let's say the collective answer is: "two acres". In such case, I will
plant EIGHT acres in grass and lease it for hay cutting. Thus, I'll
still have the 10 acres elegible.

Thanks!
Vernon

wrote:
Well, that's the reason for the question. Stated another way,

At what point (stated in acreage or square feet) does gardening cease
to be fun and therapeutic?

And while we do intend to grow some melons, we want to intersperse
them, and everything else we plant, with suitable companion plants.

While information on companion planting is widely available on the
internet and elsewhere, my reasons for posting here are to hear the
experiences of real people.

As to the agriculture exemption: My first objective is to find
experienced people's view on the largest size garden that two or four
people with modest mechanized resources can reasonably hope to plant,
tend, and harvest.

Let's say the collective answer is: "two acres". In such case, I will
plant EIGHT acres in grass and lease it for hay cutting. Thus, I'll
still have the 10 acres elegible.

Thanks!
Vernon


Vernon,

Coming from a man, who has the same aspirations (but being only 27) with
10+ years of study of all sorts of self sufficiency and the like, i
would reccomend starting small. Burn out from overdoing something you
have never done before (or have only done small scale) is so common,
it's sickening. I started with a 20x20 plot on an acre for my first
garden 6 years ago. I burned out quick. I ended up building 4 4'x 4'
raised beds and worked from those and achieved great results. Over the
years i have added 3 beds (4'x 8') and a 10x15 plot for larger crops
(corn, etc) this has enabled me to learn all kinds of methods on getting
the best quality produce. Things you have to consider with gardens a
pests above the ground (aphids, beetles, worms/caterpillars, etc) pest
below ground (grubs, etc) food for the plants and how to get it to them
(fertilizers) how to control the 3 previous things (organic,
semi-organic, all out chemical warfare) another thing is water ( we are
in a HUGE drought here in central florida, we MAY have had a total of 1
inch of rain in my area for the whole year so far) then you have the
larger pests (such as deer, groundhogs, moles/voles, racoons, etc)
finally, what are you going to do with what you do grow (how will you
store 80,000+ ears of corn?!)

Starting small enables you to spend the most amount of time and effort
on the learning process rather than trying to keep your head above
water. Figurativly speaking, you would be spending so much time
treading water that you wouldn't see the waterfall up ahead.

You asked the question: at what point does gardening not be fun anymore?
answer: When inexperience and desire meet too much land, it can be from
the first week or 2 of starting the dream.

Now, if you are going for a garden to support yourself reasonably then
by all means, increase the size from what i started with, but don't
plant an acre of corn. As for what to plant, i wouldn't even start with
corn, it is a a resource HOG, incredibly thirsty, hungry and whiny. I
would stick with the beans (all types: bush, pole (vining)) DEFINATLY
tomatoes. With the sandy soil (VERY much like what i work with here in
Florida) you could also try planting sweet potatoes (the love the warmth
and sandy soil) peanuts would thrive but again, what would you do with
them? Your squashes and melons are a great idea also. When winter rolls
around, go for carrots, onions, garlic, lettuce, broccolli and maybe
some other brassicae (greens of some kind) this would take care of your
first year of learning. It would give you a broad range of plants to
test the land out on and test yourself on.

What, if any, gardening experience do you have? Do you have any books
specific to gardening that you are reading to help get started? I have
some great reccomendations. "The Vegetable Gardeners Bible" by Edward
Smith is a book i started on and helped a great deal with me
understanding plants and needs. One of the greatest resources you can
have is your local county extension agent. Contact them, they can get
you soil tests, reccomended plants for the area, and many many more
things to help you out in this endeavor.

Your dream coming true makes me smile, I too would like to one day be
doing the same thing you are...but for now, i am still learning and growing.

God Bless You in your endeavor,

Joe

Joe and D. Reid,

Both your answers are awesomely helpful. I began to see the reality
when I divided an acre into 44,000 square ears of corn!

Hmmm... So SIXTEEN square feet is the magic answer...

We do want to try subsistence farming. However, your answers have
caused some major lightbulbs to illuminate inside my head. It sounds
like we should be buying cornmeal, and perhaps beans, and raising
chiles, squashes, root crops, etc.

D.R. Thanks for defining the differences between "gardening" and
"farming"

"Farmer Vern"

wrote:
Howdy!


An acre, which, if I'm not mistaken, is 220' x 220', contains 44,000
square feet. Therefore, one acre in corn is 44,000 plants! Is this
about right?

43560 square feet.


If even approximately correct, it would appear that hand harvesting a
single acre of corn would be a daunting challenge for two people who
are not mechanized beyond the aforesaid dinky Cub tractor.

I will genuinely appreciate some of the experienced souls in here
providing me a reality check on what our realistic goals should be.
Since our entire 13 acres is already cleared and is all sand, we
thought a reasonable long term goal would be to plant 3 acres each
season, then move over. Thus, every fourth year we'd come back to the
original plot.

Without asking you to ..er.. "take us to raise" would you please orient
us? If it's to point us to a book or a web site that's more than fine.
In fact, I just ordered "5 acres and independence" but it hasn't
arrived in the mail yet. It may very well have the answers I'm
seeking.

Finally, and on the assumption we plant a manageable size, can corn be
intercropped with peanuts? I do not think our soil is ideal for corn
since it is somewhat shy of humus. But I'll wager peanuts would grow
like the dickens.

Any other suggestions you care to toss out, especially as to companion
planting, will be greatly appreciated.




Why not *watermelons* and peanuts?

Or plant something perennial, like blackberries?

Bob

Actually...after further thought, I'd bet Strawberries would be a good "Cash
Crop"...cultivated under black plastic...Hmmmm...big $$$ in Strawberries.
They ...could...if worked right...be perrinial.
Dave
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Howdy!


An acre, which, if I'm not mistaken, is 220' x 220', contains 44,000
square feet. Therefore, one acre in corn is 44,000 plants! Is this
about right?

43560 square feet.


If even approximately correct, it would appear that hand harvesting a
single acre of corn would be a daunting challenge for two people who
are not mechanized beyond the aforesaid dinky Cub tractor.

I will genuinely appreciate some of the experienced souls in here
providing me a reality check on what our realistic goals should be.
Since our entire 13 acres is already cleared and is all sand, we
thought a reasonable long term goal would be to plant 3 acres each
season, then move over. Thus, every fourth year we'd come back to the
original plot.

Without asking you to ..er.. "take us to raise" would you please orient
us? If it's to point us to a book or a web site that's more than fine.
In fact, I just ordered "5 acres and independence" but it hasn't
arrived in the mail yet. It may very well have the answers I'm
seeking.

Finally, and on the assumption we plant a manageable size, can corn be
intercropped with peanuts? I do not think our soil is ideal for corn
since it is somewhat shy of humus. But I'll wager peanuts would grow
like the dickens.

Any other suggestions you care to toss out, especially as to companion
planting, will be greatly appreciated.




Why not *watermelons* and peanuts?

Or plant something perennial, like blackberries?

Bob

D.R.

I'm not sure if this was clear in my original post, but our central
focus is diversity. Also, since I'm a Latin Americanist (i.e. "injun
lover") then cultivation of the "three sisters" corn, beans, squash is
something I cannot resist trying.

Therefore, mono-crops do not interest me at all. However, I would
love to be able to harvest enough corn (for corn meal) to hold us over
for a year.

Y'all have been incredibly helpful. I think I now see that a total of
one acre will be more than we can tend. I'm fascinated by the Hopi
"dry farming" methods. But of course, they're tough and resourceful.
And I'm a clueless farmer.

Thank you most sincerely.

Vernon

wrote in message
oups.com...
Howdy!

My wife and I are embarking on a "semi-retirement homesteading"
adventure on 13 acres on the central Texas Gulf Coast.

The land has not been in agricultural production in at least 15 years,
this being the time period we've owned it.

When last it was, it was in watermelons. In fact, it is textbook
watermelon land, since it is fine deep sand.

Our reasons are both economic and philosophical. Although we have no
for-profit aspirations we aspire to eventually cultivate at least 10
acres. The reason for this is so that in 5 years we hope to be
elegible for an agricultural use property tax exemption.

My wife loves to garden. Without doubt she'll be the one taking the
lead, but I am also enthusiastic. We have a dinky Farmall Cub tractor,
a 3 row garden plow, and a disk.

We are about to place an order for some seed stock from "Native Seed
Search". We expect to concentrate on "the three sisters" corn, beans,
and squash. But we're eager to companion plant some other things as
well.

As the project evolves I'm sure I'll have lots of additional questions.

But for now, the burning question is: How big of a plot to plant?


Start small and try a variety of things in the first year. Learn what grows
well in the district, what cultivars are best and how to grow it etc on a
small scale before you commit yourself. Do successve plantings so you can
determine the right time(s) of year for each and so you can dispose of your
first crop locally, or eat it or give it to neighbours without having a glut
and no commercial market lined up.

During this first season check out your possible markets. There is no point
in growing (say) corn if there is no demand or the transport costs are too
high or the local mega-agribusiness has it all tied up. If possble find a
niche crop so that you don't compete with agribusiness. Also check out the
availability and cost of manures and fertilisers and how you are going to
water your crop if it doesn't rain enough.

I would think a test planting area for all the above of no more than 1/4
acre total would keep you very busy. Plant the rest in a luguminous cover
crop, suitable for the area, to be turned in at the end of the season. This
will 1) reduce weeds 2) increase organic matter 3) increase Nitrogen which
you will surely need for corn (and a few other things too).

David

"D.Reid" wrote in message
...
Actually...after further thought, I'd bet Strawberries would be a good
"Cash Crop"...cultivated under black plastic...Hmmmm...big $$$ in
Strawberries. They ...could...if worked right...be perrinial.
Dave

Asparagus would be great too.

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Howdy!


An acre, which, if I'm not mistaken, is 220' x 220', contains 44,000
square feet. Therefore, one acre in corn is 44,000 plants! Is this
about right?

43560 square feet.


If even approximately correct, it would appear that hand harvesting a
single acre of corn would be a daunting challenge for two people who
are not mechanized beyond the aforesaid dinky Cub tractor.

I will genuinely appreciate some of the experienced souls in here
providing me a reality check on what our realistic goals should be.
Since our entire 13 acres is already cleared and is all sand, we
thought a reasonable long term goal would be to plant 3 acres each
season, then move over. Thus, every fourth year we'd come back to the
original plot.

Without asking you to ..er.. "take us to raise" would you please orient
us? If it's to point us to a book or a web site that's more than fine.
In fact, I just ordered "5 acres and independence" but it hasn't
arrived in the mail yet. It may very well have the answers I'm
seeking.

Finally, and on the assumption we plant a manageable size, can corn be
intercropped with peanuts? I do not think our soil is ideal for corn
since it is somewhat shy of humus. But I'll wager peanuts would grow
like the dickens.

Any other suggestions you care to toss out, especially as to companion
planting, will be greatly appreciated.




Why not *watermelons* and peanuts?

Or plant something perennial, like blackberries?

Bob

On 15 May 2006 17:12:03 -0700, wrote:

Howdy!

My wife and I are embarking on a "semi-retirement homesteading"
adventure on 13 acres on the central Texas Gulf Coast.

The land has not been in agricultural production in at least 15 years,
this being the time period we've owned it.

When last it was, it was in watermelons. In fact, it is textbook
watermelon land, since it is fine deep sand.

Our reasons are both economic and philosophical. Although we have no
for-profit aspirations we aspire to eventually cultivate at least 10
acres. The reason for this is so that in 5 years we hope to be
elegible for an agricultural use property tax exemption.

My wife loves to garden. Without doubt she'll be the one taking the
lead, but I am also enthusiastic. We have a dinky Farmall Cub tractor,
a 3 row garden plow, and a disk.

We are about to place an order for some seed stock from "Native Seed
Search". We expect to concentrate on "the three sisters" corn, beans,
and squash. But we're eager to companion plant some other things as
well.

As the project evolves I'm sure I'll have lots of additional questions.

But for now, the burning question is: How big of a plot to plant?

An acre, which, if I'm not mistaken, is 220' x 220', contains 44,000
square feet. Therefore, one acre in corn is 44,000 plants! Is this
about right?

If even approximately correct, it would appear that hand harvesting a
single acre of corn would be a daunting challenge for two people who
are not mechanized beyond the aforesaid dinky Cub tractor.

I will genuinely appreciate some of the experienced souls in here
providing me a reality check on what our realistic goals should be.
Since our entire 13 acres is already cleared and is all sand, we
thought a reasonable long term goal would be to plant 3 acres each
season, then move over. Thus, every fourth year we'd come back to the
original plot.

Without asking you to ..er.. "take us to raise" would you please orient
us? If it's to point us to a book or a web site that's more than fine.
In fact, I just ordered "5 acres and independence" but it hasn't
arrived in the mail yet. It may very well have the answers I'm
seeking.

Finally, and on the assumption we plant a manageable size, can corn be
intercropped with peanuts? I do not think our soil is ideal for corn
since it is somewhat shy of humus. But I'll wager peanuts would grow
like the dickens.

Any other suggestions you care to toss out, especially as to companion
planting, will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Vernon

If you are planning to try to be self sufficient, you need to figure
out how much food of each kind you will use in a year. Next question
is how will you prepare and preserve it and where you will store it.
Dried corn kernel keeps pretty well, but once it is milled it will go
rancid.

Then you need to know how much space you need to grow that amount.

If you are thinking about selling, you better check out the demand for
the products and how much you will get (per acre) for the products. If
you are going for vegetables and fruits, check out the local farmers
markets. What do they sell and how much do they get for it. If you do
not see anyone growing it, it probably does not do well there. Talk
to your county extension agent.

Are you used to hard physical labor in hot and humid weather for
sustained periods? I lived in San Antonio for 4 years. You don't get
to do these things on your schedule. The plants have their own
schedule that you must follow to get the best results. Harvesting and
preserving take time and energy.

Don't plant to take a vacation from the time you plant the first seed,
whether it be inside or outside, until the last crop is in and the
ground cleaned and prepped. There is always something to do. Insects,
weeds and drought are always possible and if you leave for a week you
may not have anything left when you return.

As far as tax advantage, how much will you save? Will it pay for the
additional equipment, work and paper work that will be involved. And
if you are a farm, you will probably have to declare as income any
profits you make.

We are a retired couple, in pretty good health, who stared working on
a "large" garden a couple of years ago when we moved to out present
location. We have about 1/4 acre under cultivation. My husband says
there is no way that he could manhandle a rototiller on that space. So
we now have a good sized tractor. And we are outside every day
checking the plants.

When you have a garden just to supplement your groceries and have
fresh foods during the season it is one thing. Commercial or self
sustaining is another. Bad weather, insects or plant diseases can
wipe out a crop in a heartbeat.




--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974

On Mon, 15 May 2006 23:20:28 -0400, "D.Reid"
wrote:

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Howdy!


An acre, which, if I'm not mistaken, is 220' x 220', contains 44,000
square feet. Therefore, one acre in corn is 44,000 plants! Is this
about right?

43560 square feet.


If even approximately correct, it would appear that hand harvesting a
single acre of corn would be a daunting challenge for two people who
are not mechanized beyond the aforesaid dinky Cub tractor.

I will genuinely appreciate some of the experienced souls in here
providing me a reality check on what our realistic goals should be.
Since our entire 13 acres is already cleared and is all sand, we
thought a reasonable long term goal would be to plant 3 acres each
season, then move over. Thus, every fourth year we'd come back to the
original plot.

Without asking you to ..er.. "take us to raise" would you please orient
us? If it's to point us to a book or a web site that's more than fine.
In fact, I just ordered "5 acres and independence" but it hasn't
arrived in the mail yet. It may very well have the answers I'm
seeking.

Finally, and on the assumption we plant a manageable size, can corn be
intercropped with peanuts? I do not think our soil is ideal for corn
since it is somewhat shy of humus. But I'll wager peanuts would grow
like the dickens.

Any other suggestions you care to toss out, especially as to companion
planting, will be greatly appreciated.




Why not *watermelons* and peanuts?

Or plant something perennial, like blackberries?

Bob

Actually...after further thought, I'd bet Strawberries would be a good "Cash
Crop"...cultivated under black plastic...Hmmmm...big $$$ in Strawberries.
They ...could...if worked right...be perrinial.
Dave

Strawberries are not that carefree. Around here the commercial
strawberry farmers replace their fields every year since the berries
are susceptible to various diseases, especially if the beds are not
kept clean. And they do not use the runners for the next year. They
purchase plants.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974

Whoops - I'm a dork. somehow, on my first read, I missed that you
already were in touch with NS/S. Good move! Square Foot Gardeining
is a text written by someone operating on a much smaller scale, but his
approach to plant spacing is great. 'Extreme Gardening- Organic
Vegetable Gardening in The Hostile Desert' was written by the "Garden
Guy" who has a show out here in Phx. His book is all about companion
planting for insect repellants, and his timetables and suggestions are
actually sensible for the desert. Sorry I don't have the author names -
Google is your friend.

What zone are you in?

What are the Hopi dry farming methods? I'm in Phx, Zone 10, so anything
that saves water is great. I use about 2000 gallons a week tending my
pond and garden, and I am very eager to learn how to cut down on water
use.