I have a lot of clay clumps in the area I want to garden so….

I was looking for a cheep soil replacement to plant vegetables in so I went
to home depot and found one cubic foot bags of Earth Grow Steer Manure Blend
(at a buck a bag) that says it’s A blend of steer manure and compost.

On the back of the bag it states “do not plant directly into” Earth Grow
Steer Manure Blend.
I notice this stuff retains moisture, though on the other hand I heard from
2 other sources that using manure as a growing medium is standard practice.
What gives?

Welcome to the world of caveat emptor.

Most bagged products (topsoil, compost) are poor substitutes for "the
real thing". You have no way of knowing exactly what went into this
stuff, and in my opinion, it's a bad sign that the mfr recommends
against planting in it. My experience with bagged products of this
variety is they typically come from a waste management operation.

It's true, real manure is planted in - although best if composted,
definately not raw - and it is a great soil conditioner. But like all
soil conditioning, it takes TIME and TONS OF MATERIALS

Seriously, I mean tons of materials - depending on your starting soil.

The manure I use is at least 1 year old, dusty-dry, crumbly,
absolutely no odor. Mixed into the top 3-4 inches of soil it just
disappears. You could try splitting open the bags, letting them dry
out, and mixing into your soil lightly.

So here's the leap off the deep end:
You can plant directly into straw, although it might be tough to come
by in your neck of the woods. If you bury the bale half into your
soil, it will speed decomposition and get your plant roots down into
the ground. If your city has a composting program, check into it.
Visit, see if you like how the material is handled. Woodchips/sawdust
in quantity can be had from sawmills, cabinet makers, wod workers...
Yes it depletes nitrogen in the short term, but again, over time, is a
great soil conditioner. Talk to your city officials about leaf
recycling - maybe they can cut you in on the action.

I'm sure others will be by with (shorter) additional comments..

"Mike" wrote in message
news:NDzGj.4272$Dv5.1096@trnddc02...
I have a lot of clay clumps in the area I want to garden so..

I was looking for a cheep soil replacement to plant vegetables in so I
went
to home depot and found one cubic foot bags of Earth Grow Steer Manure
Blend
(at a buck a bag) that says it's A blend of steer manure and compost.

On the back of the bag it states "do not plant directly into" Earth Grow
Steer Manure Blend.
I notice this stuff retains moisture, though on the other hand I heard
from
2 other sources that using manure as a growing medium is standard
practice.
What gives?

if your soil is rubbish you could try raised beds. These do not need to be
filled with soil, decent quality compost & aged manure will do for the
outset.I build some raised gardens & chucked a whole mixture of organic
matter in, including barrow loads of horse crap, & simply layered a few
inchs of soil or good (backyard) compost onto the top to plant into. The
first seasons veges went fine and over time the gardens have only inproved.
True, for a coupe, of them I could fill them almost full of soil but for the
other 3 whatever I had on hand was used. Thats my adage, use whatever is
available. Bugger it, if you have the gardens deep enough you can pile a
load of raw materials into the gardens and plant whilst they are still only
partially rotted. I planyed tomatos into a garden full of partially rotted
hay and grass clippings, with a few inchs of compost to bed into. The
tomatos went well and gave me very satisfactory crop.

Have a squiz at
http://www.fbga.net/Lasagna%20gardening%202004.htm
http://www.ourgardengang.com/lasagna_gardening.htm

you don't have to make the garden as ugly as the first link for it to be
successful, but you get the idea of what they throw in their garden.
Basically everything organic and now where near rotted. They covered with
top soil or compost & planted away. I wouldn't bother with the peat moss
myself, waste of time.

rob

"Mike" wrote in message
I have a lot of clay clumps in the area I want to garden so..

I was looking for a cheep soil replacement to plant vegetables in so I
went
to home depot and found one cubic foot bags of Earth Grow Steer Manure
Blend
(at a buck a bag) that says it's A blend of steer manure and compost.

On the back of the bag it states "do not plant directly into" Earth Grow
Steer Manure Blend.
I notice this stuff retains moisture, though on the other hand I heard
from
2 other sources that using manure as a growing medium is standard
practice.
What gives?

I've never heard of anyone growing anything in pure manure. I add manure to
my clay soil and dig it in or if it is very fresh I put it on the top of the
soil and let the worms dig it in. Mind you, my manure is from animals and
not from bags so it's the real deal YMMV.

In my raised beds I have taken to using general mushroom compost and
then adding over time buckets of ash from our open fire. So long as
you break it up (becomes clay like lumps in wet weather) , its seems
to work really well and balance the compost out.

Too bad the bag doesn't say why you shouldn't plant directly in this stuff,
rather than have the customer guessing. Well I planted in it!

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3...4641793iq4.jpg

Though it probably would have been better to mix it with half garden soil.

Thanks for the input.

In article UVPGj.4748$o35.2698@trnddc07, says...
Too bad the bag doesn't say why you shouldn't plant directly in this stuff,
rather than have the customer guessing. Well I planted in it!

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3...4641793iq4.jpg

Though it probably would have been better to mix it with half garden soil.

Thanks for the input.




Nitrogen is your answer and what it can do to the root system.

Plug manure hot into google.

Do you have a truck or one that you could borrow? Most horse stables offer all the manure you want to haul away for free. Luckily, our local horse stable has a loader to load the manure into the back of the truck. Takes awhile to unload at home with one shovel, but it does wonders for overly clay or sandy soils. Spread it over the bed and till in. The manure we usually get is still steaming hot, literally. I've never had it burn established plants, though I wouldn't trust it on seedlings. I wouldn't recommend planting any plants directly in straight manure.

"phorbin" wrote in message
...
In article UVPGj.4748$o35.2698@trnddc07, says...
Too bad the bag doesn't say why you shouldn't plant directly in this
stuff,
rather than have the customer guessing. Well I planted in it!

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3...4641793iq4.jpg

Though it probably would have been better to mix it with half garden
soil.

Thanks for the input.




Nitrogen is your answer and what it can do to the root system.

Plug manure hot into google.

I get what you mean, hot manure would be like bat guano and would burn the
roots.
I don’t think this blend is that hot, though it's a bit sticky and dry
hardens on top.
I also added 27g each per Square foot of Ammonium Phosphate, Sulfur, and
Ironite.

In article snaHj.24$zb3.11@trnddc01, "Mike" wrote:

"phorbin" wrote in message
...
In article UVPGj.4748$o35.2698@trnddc07, says...
Too bad the bag doesn't say why you shouldn't plant directly in this
stuff,
rather than have the customer guessing. Well I planted in it!

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3...4641793iq4.jpg

Though it probably would have been better to mix it with half garden
soil.

Thanks for the input.




Nitrogen is your answer and what it can do to the root system.

Plug manure hot into google.

I get what you mean, hot manure would be like bat guano and would burn the
roots.
I don’t think this blend is that hot, though it's a bit sticky and dry
hardens on top.
I also added 27g each per Square foot of Ammonium Phosphate, Sulfur, and
Ironite.

Ammonium Phosphate? Ammonium? You just increased your chances of burning
the roots.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:00:56 GMT, "Mike" wrote:

I also added 27g each per Square foot of Ammonium Phosphate, Sulfur, and
Ironite.

You should rethink the Ironite.

google "ironite lead arsenic"

Here's the first:

http://www.envirolaw.org/poison.html

Charlie


I got this information from John Chapman:

http://www.johnchapman.com/monthly-g...-september.asp

In article qvgHj.57$zb3.35@trnddc01, "Mike" wrote:

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:00:56 GMT, "Mike" wrote:

I also added 27g each per Square foot of Ammonium Phosphate, Sulfur, and
Ironite.

You should rethink the Ironite.

google "ironite lead arsenic"

Here's the first:

http://www.envirolaw.org/poison.html

Charlie


I got this information from John Chapman:

http://www.johnchapman.com/monthly-g...-september.asp


http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/soil.html

Briefly, Ironite is made from mining mill tailings - usually a real grab
bag of heavy metals - so it actually contains more stuff than they claim
in their labeling. In particular, the State claims that Ironite contains
levels of lead and arsenic that are potentially dangerous to humans.

http://www.azdeq.gov/environ/water/w...nload/hhra.pdf

Arsenic, cadmium and lead were selected as the potential COCs (Chemicals
of concern ) in Ironite® . The concentrations of the COCs that
may be present in surface soils following long term application of
Ironite® were modeled using a conservative methodology that assumes that
Ironite® is applied at the maximum recommended rates suggested on the
label. Modeling was conducted using USEPA equations and assumptions.
Area specific values were used where necessary. The potentially complete
exposure route to the potential COCs in surface soil include ingestion,
dermal contact, and inhalation of fugitive dust.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

In article , Charlie wrote:

http://www.johnchapman.com/monthly-g...-september.asp


John Chapman's home page says... "IRONITE Spokesman".

Guess you don't have to be a politician to kill people for money.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/soil.html

Briefly, Ironite is made from mining mill tailings - usually a real grab
bag of heavy metals - so it actually contains more stuff than they claim
in their labeling. In particular, the State claims that Ironite contains
levels of lead and arsenic that are potentially dangerous to humans.

http://www.azdeq.gov/environ/water/w...nload/hhra.pdf

Arsenic, cadmium and lead were selected as the potential COCs (Chemicals
of concern ) in Ironite® . The concentrations of the COCs that
may be present in surface soils following long term application of
Ironite® were modeled using a conservative methodology that assumes that
Ironite® is applied at the maximum recommended rates suggested on the
label. Modeling was conducted using USEPA equations and assumptions.
Area specific values were used where necessary. The potentially complete
exposure route to the potential COCs in surface soil include ingestion,
dermal contact, and inhalation of fugitive dust.
--
Billy


Hum...well what would be a safe additive that would complement the soil
along with Ammonium Phosphate and Sulfur?

In article ZxtHj.1208$Eq.937@trnddc05, "Mike" wrote:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/soil.html

Briefly, Ironite is made from mining mill tailings - usually a real grab
bag of heavy metals - so it actually contains more stuff than they claim
in their labeling. In particular, the State claims that Ironite contains
levels of lead and arsenic that are potentially dangerous to humans.

http://www.azdeq.gov/environ/water/w...nload/hhra.pdf

Arsenic, cadmium and lead were selected as the potential COCs (Chemicals
of concern ) in Ironite® . The concentrations of the COCs that
may be present in surface soils following long term application of
Ironite® were modeled using a conservative methodology that assumes that
Ironite® is applied at the maximum recommended rates suggested on the
label. Modeling was conducted using USEPA equations and assumptions.
Area specific values were used where necessary. The potentially complete
exposure route to the potential COCs in surface soil include ingestion,
dermal contact, and inhalation of fugitive dust.
--
Billy


Hum...well what would be a safe additive that would complement the soil
along with Ammonium Phosphate and Sulfur?

Stay away from chemical amendments. They are bad for your soil and your
plants. If you had time (which you don't now) green manure (pulses and
other plants) which would replace all or most of the manure which you
will now need to use, rock phosphate, and bone meal. Use sulfur to lower
your pH, or wood ashes to rase your pH, if needed. Incorporate as much
organic material (preferably compost, but leaves, kitchen scraps, most
anything organic, small, and thin) into your garden as you can.

Look into compost tea.

See if you library has "How to Grow More Vegetables" by John Jeavons, or
the "Vegetable Gardener' Bible" by Edward C. Smith. Both books will help
with your immediate needs.

Then, when you have time, see if they have "Teaming with Microbes" by
Lowenfels and Lewis (explains organic soil) , and "The Omnivore's
Dilemma" by Michael Pollan (which explores our relationship with food).

For some insight on reeeealy natural food, see
http://www.environnement.ens.fr/pers..._jared_diamond
..pdf .

Hang in there. Keep browsing the posts here, and skip over the rancor. I
was a newby a year ago.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/