A kind poster said I directed him/her to "Omnivore's Dilemma"
and "Teaming with Microbes" and is enjoying the former and
preparing to read the later. "Teaming with Microbes" is
important in understanding humanity's impact on soil whether you
garden or not. "Omnivore", though, takes you places where you've
never been and explains thing that you never thought of and in
doing so gives an incredibly enabling overview of human nutrition,
or the lack of it, additionally, it is also a real page turner. I feel
fortunate to have read it.

There are two other books that I would like to recommend that also
deal with the biosphere, both are crammed with information that
seems to flow effortlessly from the books, and they are both by
Jared Diamond. The first is "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human
Societies" which, in part, traces the development of our food
supply. You will see the world with new eyes.
http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Ste...393061310/ref=
pd_sim_b_img_1

The other book is "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or
Succeed", which exhibits societies from the Bitterroot Valley of
Montana, to the Viking outposts of Greenland, to the ancient land
of Australia that show good stewardship of the land and those that
didn't. A wonderful read.
http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Socie...d/dp/B000IJ7Q3
2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208368189&sr=1-1

Both these books are real page turners and you will feel much
wiser for having read them.
--

Billy

The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

In article
,
Billy wrote:

A kind poster said I directed him/her to "Omnivore's Dilemma"
and "Teaming with Microbes" and is enjoying the former and
preparing to read the later. "Teaming with Microbes" is
important in understanding humanity's impact on soil whether you
garden or not. "Omnivore", though, takes you places where you've
never been and explains thing that you never thought of and in
doing so gives an incredibly enabling overview of human nutrition,
or the lack of it, additionally, it is also a real page turner. I feel
fortunate to have read it.

There are two other books that I would like to recommend that also
deal with the biosphere, both are crammed with information that
seems to flow effortlessly from the books, and they are both by
Jared Diamond. The first is "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human
Societies" which, in part, traces the development of our food
supply. You will see the world with new eyes.
http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Ste...393061310/ref=
pd_sim_b_img_1

The other book is "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or
Succeed", which exhibits societies from the Bitterroot Valley of
Montana, to the Viking outposts of Greenland, to the ancient land
of Australia that show good stewardship of the land and those that
didn't. A wonderful read.
http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Socie...d/dp/B000IJ7Q3
2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208368189&sr=1-1

Both these books are real page turners and you will feel much
wiser for having read them.

"Omnivore's Dilemma" has me searching for more information in other
areas. Chapter one was a quick overview on the chemistry of plants.
The author states that there are five C-4 edible plants, "corn" is one,
later on in the book "cane sugar" is another. What are the others?

I have been looking for a book that describes what these acronym's mean:
C-3, C-4, F-1, F-2, H-1... I have seen these acronym's often on seed
packets and I am curious of the meaning of what these terms are. Know of
any books?

"Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed". Sounds cool also.
I am an avid reader of science fiction. Why I like science fiction is
they often describe "what if societies" and from these books from:
Robert A. Heinlen, Neal Stephenson and Vernor Vinge. From these books I
have a good idea how societies might succeed or fail, even from an
agricultural point of view.

From this book, "Please Understand Me II by David Keirsey" second
edition. Tells me indirectly why societies will Fail or Succeed. From
this book I found in short order who I will probably get along with and
who I will not. Why some people will listen to reason and those who will
not. Why many people will bend to fear and those who will not. Most
people will not listen to reason no matter what proof one has. Why some
care about others and why others will take advantage of others. The
author states our brains are hard wired from birth into sixteen
personalities. I am an "ENTJ", a messed up "ENTJ" but still an "ENTJ".
Everyone on this plant has been type casted, you can believe it or not.
This is also a top ten favorite book of mine.

After reading "Omnivore's Dilemma", I can comfortably state that "I am
maize" and uncomfortably state that "I was unknowingly a product of
Cargill"

A kind poster .... sometimes
Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

In article , Diogenes wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:19:20 -0700, Billy
wrote:

[...]
The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

You really bought into that propaganda from the Palestinian playbook?
How sad. Truly, a lie is halfway around the world before the truth
can get out of bed. Done any real research?

He's a rabid antisemite who believes Israel has no right to exist, all
wars are caused by Jews, and Hamas training children as suicide bombers is
"resistance" but otherwise good parenting. Of course he denies that it's
antisemitic to want Israel not to exist and continuously pretend only Jews
are evil, but the REAL surprise is that he has SUPPORTERS for this kind of
thinking!!!

A scant week ago he began assaulting a man over a single word he didn't
like, but had confused Sherman and Sherwin and was assaultive not only for
a bad reason, but to the wrong guy. And his troll buddies agreed he was
right! So I drew his fire as an excuse to post the truth, and he got the
same unstable chums to agree with his stances. The majority good folks
duck for cover or just leave, and who can blame 'em.

This newsgroup used to have hundreds of regular posters with a fine array
of personalities from sweetie-pie to ascerbic and 99.9% of it all about
gardening & many very knowledgeable eager to assist one another. It now
has a handful of trolls whose special topics including over & over again
their antisemitic belief that Israel should be destroyed. Garden talkers
who used to dominate this newsgroup have gone away to facilitated groups.

-paghat the ratyid

[repost on Rachel Corrie, falsified saint]

I can certainly understand someone taking issue with anyone unthinkingly
worshipful of Rachel Corrie. Since she lived near me before she started
burning American flags in Gaza while chanting anti-Israel and
anti-American slogans, she gets quite a lot of discussion around here.

I like the discussion that speaks of Rachel Thaler, killed by Palestinians
at age 16 while eating pizza in a shopping mall; or Rachel Levy, killed
by Palestinians at age 17 while shopping in a grocery store; Rachel Levi
killed by Palestinians while waiting for a bus; Rachel Gavish killed by
Palestinians in her home with her entire family during Passover; or
Rachel Shabo mlurdered by Palestinians in her home with her three young
sons.

The list of dead Rachels is quite long. But all these Rachels were Jews,
unlike Rachel Corrie, so they're of no concern to the types for whom the
only unfortunate possible Rachel death is when the given Rachel ain't an
effing Jew.

Even nutters shouldn't have to die young, but to blame Jews for her bad
choices to serve admitted, proud, avowed terrorists is certainly a
perspective worthy of criticism. Disliking a defender of Hamas whose
stated goal is the complete eradication of Israel is only reasonable.
Dislike someone who repeatedly screamed her hatred for her own country of
birth is hardly the basis for a saintly reputation, and might justify even
moderately patriotic people who love their country to suspect a Monkey in
the works.

In the purely antisemitic Cult of Corrie it's important to portray her,
absolutely falsely, as a peaceful protestor helping the downtrodden. They
like to reproduce her school portrait at their Israel Must Die rallies,
but here's the photo of Rachel Corrie screaming hate slogans at a Hamas
rally, face twisted into a mask of hate as she screams & screams & screams
accusations against America and Israel that would've put her in like flint
even with the Taliban:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com/images...with-Hamas.jpg

She went to Rafa and Gaza with a group that was SUPPOSED to be politically
neutral, was SUPPOSED to serve as human shields for Israeli settlers AND
for Palestinians, without judging whether it was worse to train children
as suicide bombers or worse to build homes for Jews on land that everyone
reasonable agrees is the new Palestine, borders all the more recognizable
due to the tragic fences and walls. But when Corrie got there, she decided
Israel alone was evil and so took up the terrorist call & cry.

Ninety gun-running tunnels were destroyed by Israel's rush into that area
where she stands screaming her hatred of America & Israel. Corrie and her
friends knew this if they weren't deaf, dumb, and blind. They bragged
about who they stayed with, and this included houses where terrorists
were coming and going with weapons through the basement tunnels.

So these British and American naifs stood arm in arm with terrorists &
promultated their belief that firing rockets everyday into Israeli cities
& suicide-bombing grocery stores and pizzarias merits no military
response, because all Jew activity is evil, and all Palestinian activity
is holy.

It's probable Corrie like her friends helped transport weapons and
ammunition, since it would've been impolite to accept these people's food
during a hungry time, sit with their children, shout their hate-slogans
in heated comraderie, & yet refuse the heavy lifting.

Disagree with Hamas, get shot or carted away to oblivion. Disagree with
Israel, get international attention. It's always easiest to attack
America and Israel exclusively, while ignoring all injustices from the
truly scary. And so Corrie derides her own country while standing amidst
terrorists who know they've got one helluva political chip in play, but
would've exterminated her instantly if she'd been evenhanded or truthful.

Until her suicidal jump she was not significant enough to be much quoted
or published, so screaming terrorist slogans with Hamas is as close as we
can get to her personal voice. In the little interview footage from her
time as an pro-Hamas activist, she for poliltical advantage refuses to
acknowledge that Hamas was her host, then speaks of those hosts as just
wanting to have "fun with their children," and likens the removal of
buildings used by Hamas snipers to shoot Jews or to cover entrances to
gun tunnels as Jews "destroying of ordinary citizens'" ability to make a
living, and at length alleges that Jews "do not care about people." She
has a sweet face & an even manner (when not screaming slogans under a
burning American flag) but her words are infused with inflammatory hate.

I've a theory how her obviouisly undeserved lionization came about. 220
Moslems died during the second Intifada in the period of Corrie's activism
in favor of Hamas. By comparison only one American Christian died. Some
few of the dead Moslems were genuinely innocent, and even though they
were not intentionally targetted as Hamas intentionally targets civillian
Jews, nevertheless it was a great tragedy, and some of those dead Moslems
must've been decent people worthy of world-wide mourning & regret. Didn't
happen. Instead Europe & America picked Corrie out of the grave to
re-animate as a fraud heroine, despite 220 other choices for the season.

It's because the world doesn't care all THAT much about Palestinians
anymore than they care about a bunch of ****ing Yids killed eating pizza
in Tel Aviv by young suicide bombers. Get yourself an American Christian
and never mind she was dumb as fudge, at least she wasn't a sandmonkey or
a hymie yid, so she gets lifted up to sainthood and no one else even
footnoted. Good people SHOULD be peevish about that, as some correctly
a

"Rachel Corrie chose to side with a society that breeds some of the
cruelest murderers of innocent people in the world. Rachel Corrie gave
her life trying to protect people whose declared aim is to annihilate
another country. In the name of saving children's lives, Rachel Corrie
chose to defend a society that teaches its young children to blow
themselves up and which deliberately targets children for death. And
Rachel Corrie went to America's enemies to burn her country's flag.
"We are told repeatedly that Rachel was idealistic as if that
matters. Virtually every person who commits great evil, the Nazi, the
communist, the Islamic terrorist is idealistic. Idealism is morally
neutral. It is good only when directed to good ends. But in young people,
idealism is at least as likely to lead to bad as to good because few
young people are wise and idealism without wisdom is very dangerous.
"The world is filled with evil, and young idealists like Rachel Corrie
don't like it. Which is lovely. But they don't confront real evil because
they know they will get hurt. That's one reason there are no "peace
activists" or "human shields" confronting Islamic terror, North Korean
totalitarianism, or Chinese Communist despotism. They focus their
animosity at the countries that confront these evils, the United States
and Israel." [Dennis Prager, author of Why The Jews?: The Reason for
Antisemitism]

Anyway, I hope you'll dig deeper, both in your misplaced admiration for a
phony martyr, & for your conviction that you've found antichrstian
sentiment from Sherman. If he's like that, you should quote that vile
attitude where it really shows, not where it has to be highly intepretted
from the non-evidence of a single word directed at a spammer.
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com
visit my film reviews website:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

A kind poster said I directed him/her to "Omnivore's Dilemma"
and "Teaming with Microbes" and is enjoying the former and
preparing to read the later. "Teaming with Microbes" is
important in understanding humanity's impact on soil whether you
garden or not. "Omnivore", though, takes you places where you've
never been and explains thing that you never thought of and in
doing so gives an incredibly enabling overview of human nutrition,
or the lack of it, additionally, it is also a real page turner. I feel
fortunate to have read it.

There are two other books that I would like to recommend that also
deal with the biosphere, both are crammed with information that
seems to flow effortlessly from the books, and they are both by
Jared Diamond. The first is "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human
Societies" which, in part, traces the development of our food
supply. You will see the world with new eyes.
http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Ste...393061310/ref=
pd_sim_b_img_1

The other book is "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or
Succeed", which exhibits societies from the Bitterroot Valley of
Montana, to the Viking outposts of Greenland, to the ancient land
of Australia that show good stewardship of the land and those that
didn't. A wonderful read.
http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Socie...d/dp/B000IJ7Q3
2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208368189&sr=1-1

Both these books are real page turners and you will feel much
wiser for having read them.

"Omnivore's Dilemma" has me searching for more information in other
areas. Chapter one was a quick overview on the chemistry of plants.
The author states that there are five C-4 edible plants, "corn" is one,
later on in the book "cane sugar" is another. What are the others?

I have been looking for a book that describes what these acronym's mean:
C-3, C-4, F-1, F-2, H-1... I have seen these acronym's often on seed
packets and I am curious of the meaning of what these terms are. Know of
any books?
Google C3 plants, C4 plants, F1 plants, F2 plants, and C4 plants, one at
a time.
C3 and C4 refer to the sugars that the plant uses to make cellulose, the
structural material of the plant. F1 is first generation in genetics.
You will also buy F1 hybrid seed which are very gregarious plants. F2
hybrids tend to be something of a mess however and may have no
resemblance to their parents, other wise F2 age just the second
generation of a genetic breeding program. H1, you got me but Google will
tell you all about plant histone H1.

"Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed". Sounds cool also.
I am an avid reader of science fiction. Why I like science fiction is
they often describe "what if societies" and from these books from:
Robert A. Heinlen, Neal Stephenson and Vernor Vinge. From these books I
have a good idea how societies might succeed or fail, even from an
agricultural point of view.

From this book, "Please Understand Me II by David Keirsey" second
edition. Tells me indirectly why societies will Fail or Succeed. From
this book I found in short order who I will probably get along with and
who I will not. Why some people will listen to reason and those who will
not. Why many people will bend to fear and those who will not. Most
people will not listen to reason no matter what proof one has. Why some
care about others and why others will take advantage of others. The
author states our brains are hard wired from birth into sixteen
personalities. I am an "ENTJ", a messed up "ENTJ" but still an "ENTJ".
Everyone on this plant has been type casted, you can believe it or not.
This is also a top ten favorite book of mine.

After reading "Omnivore's Dilemma", I can comfortably state that "I am
maize" and uncomfortably state that "I was unknowingly a product of
Cargill"
Don't forget the other *******, Archer Daniel Midlands (ADM).

A kind poster .... sometimes
Enjoy Life ... Dan
--

Billy

The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

In article , Diogenes wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:19:20 -0700, Billy
wrote:

[...]
The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

You really bought into that propaganda from the Palestinian playbook?
How sad. Truly, a lie is halfway around the world before the truth
can get out of bed. Done any real research?

Don't the pictures tell it all? At least a half dozen international
monitors have be shot in broad day light by the IDF. Robert Fisk
dissembles too? And Noam Schomsky? And Bishop Tutu? And the general
assembly of the United Nations. See the DVD documentary "Death in Gaza".
If you saw the news in almost any other country, you would know what is
going on there. You seem to think you know something.
Tell me.
--

Billy

The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

In article , Diogenes wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:19:20 -0700, Billy
wrote:

[...]
The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

You really bought into that propaganda from the Palestinian playbook?
How sad. Truly, a lie is halfway around the world before the truth
can get out of bed. Done any real research?

I forgot to mention "Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret
National Security Agency" by James Bamford. It seems to have become the
difinitive account of the Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty, pages
187 to 239. It was even cited in "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign
Policy" by John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt, as the only history
of the aqttack. The book is a critical view of American foreign policy
but still pro-Israeli.

--
Bush Behind Bars

Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

In article , Diogenes wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:15:41 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Diogenes wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:19:20 -0700, Billy
wrote:

[...]
The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

You really bought into that propaganda from the Palestinian playbook?
How sad. Truly, a lie is halfway around the world before the truth
can get out of bed. Done any real research?

Don't the pictures tell it all?

No. They are cleverly faked, notably the one about Mohammed Al Dura,
the Palestinian boy allegedly shot by the IDF. Portions of a video
shot by the Palestinian cameraman who staged the shoot for a French TV
station have never been released. See petition below. I've seen the
available portions of the video several times. It's entertaining, in
a sinister fashion. Among other goofs, it shows the boy lifting his
head and looking around after he was "killed".

Really he doesn't care about the facts. Like all antisemites he'd be the
one faking that stuff if only he had any skills of any kind. But thanks
for posting the references for any passers-through who might otherwise be
misled. That's the only real value of responding to jew-baiting trolls.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com
visit my film reviews website:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

In article , Diogenes wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:15:41 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article , Diogenes wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:19:20 -0700, Billy
wrote:

[...]
The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

You really bought into that propaganda from the Palestinian playbook?
How sad. Truly, a lie is halfway around the world before the truth
can get out of bed. Done any real research?

Don't the pictures tell it all?

No. They are cleverly faked, notably the one about Mohammed Al Dura,
the Palestinian boy allegedly shot by the IDF. Portions of a video
shot by the Palestinian cameraman who staged the shoot for a French TV
station have never been released. See petition below. I've seen the
available portions of the video several times. It's entertaining, in
a sinister fashion. Among other goofs, it shows the boy lifting his
head and looking around after he was "killed".

Many Web sites address this heartless scam.

http://politicscentral.com/2006/09/1...l_part_one.php

and

http://www.israelinsider.com/channel...s/dip_0182.htm

and

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200306/fallows
(one of the best, by respected Atlantic contributor James Fallows)

and

http://www.petitiononline.com/france2/petition.html

To: President de France Television, Patrick de Carolis

To Patrick de Carolis, France2 Television

France2: Release the Secret Muhammad al Durah Tapes!

People around the world who depend on the media for reliability,
accuracy, and transparency in reporting, demand that France2 release
the unedited video tapes ("rushes") that its Palestinian cameraman,
Talal abu Rahmah, sent them on September 30 and October 1, 2000 from
Gaza.

On September 30, 2000, your Middle East correspondent Charles
Enderlin, broadcast a story about Muhammad al-Durah, a 12-year old
Palestinian boy. Using the footage and the testimony from his
cameraman, Talal abu Rahmah, Enderlin reported that Israeli soldiers
had targeted and killed the boy. That allegation of deliberate murder
spread instantaneously around the world.

Extensive doubts have emerged about almost every claim of this
explosive report, and they raise serious questions about both the
journalistic integrity of the cameraman and the professional judgment
of his employer, your correspondent Charles Enderlin.

As a result, the raw footage France2 received from Talal abu Rahmah
represent key evidence in this crucial case.

But instead of releasing the tapes, your institution has responded to
criticism of your correspondent's broadcast by suing French citizens
for defamation and***** keeping the tapes secret for nearly seven
years now.******

If France2 reports the news responsibly and uses reliable cameramen,
you have nothing to hide. Show the tapes and let the public judge.

Whatever political or religious beliefs we hold, whatever we now think
about what happened on September 30, 2000, we, the undersigned,
believe that all the victims and all of their loved ones on both
sides of the terrible war for which Muhammad al-Durah's image served
as the icon deserve that this evidence at last be shown.

We, the undersigned, respectfully, but firmly, request that France2
release all the tapes for September 30 and October 1, 2000 for public
inspection immediately.

Sincerely,
=================================================

and many, many other objective analyses, which appelation can hardly
be applied to the hysterical Palestinian propaganda which shot around
the world in a flash, and was swallowed eagerly by such as your good
self.


At least a half dozen international
monitors have be shot in broad day light by the IDF. Robert Fisk
dissembles too? And Noam Schomsky? And Bishop Tutu? And the general
assembly of the United Nations. See the DVD documentary "Death in Gaza".
If you saw the news in almost any other country, you would know what is
going on there. You seem to think you know something.
Tell me.

Quite a bit. Have been following this situation closely for 20 years
or more. Have you read the studies analyzing the Rachel Corrie
matter? As well as the other alleged IDF crimes, such as Mohammed Al
Dura, above, reports on which have made their way around the world,
but their analyses by respected scholars and journalists have caught
up with the lies only by those who have bothered to really study these
allegations in depth.

Unlike your good self, I go to MANY sources, from MEMRI to CAMERA to
Jerusalem Post to Al Jezeera to NY Times, to the Hamas Web site, and
on and on. Also unlike your good self, I read foreign media in 4-1/2
languages, so indeed I do know "what is going on there".

(In case you don't recognize MEMRI, it publishes English translations
of what the Arabs are saying to their public, which is mostly a 180
from what they push to the gullible and/or biased Western media.

(However, notably and heroically, MEMRI and sometimes Der Spiegel and
the International Herald Tribune and other foreign media, publish
comments by Arabs living in exile who criticize their retrograde
societies, often at the risk of their lives. These people deserve
great credit for their progressive views!

( CAMERA is a watchdog that catches lies and/or misrepresentations
about Israel in all media, and documents the facts. Amazing reading!
Sometimes -- too rarely alas -- there is a retraction by a responsible
newspaper or other medium.)

It's fascinating that the people you list above -- Noam Chomsky (note
spelling), Bishop Tutu, Robert Fisk, and the US General Assembly --
share at least one characteristic: Unrelenting, unreasoning assaults
on Israel.

I somewhat regret having answered, since I don't want to open the
door on another endless discussion on a non-garden-related matter.
But I am not sorry I listed some sources. Perhaps you could seek
enlightenment at the suggested sites?

Diogenes

Thank you for the sites I will look into them. A good deal of my news
comes from a radio show called "Flashpoints" http://www.flashpoints.net/
on KPFA radio http://www.kpfa.org/ were they usually have two or three
live interviews from Palestine each week.

Before 1947, many leading Jewish intellectuals were firmly convinced
that a binational state could be formed through partnership. One of the
most prominent and forceful early advocates of binationalism was Buber,
a renowned Jewish theologian. In 1939, shortly after he emigrated from
Germany to British-ruled Palestine, he replied to a letter by Mahatma
Gandhi, who thought that "Palestine belongs to the Arabs" and the Jews
"should make that country their home where they were born."[citation
needed] Buber rejected this idea but agreed that there had to be a
consensus between Jews and Arabs in Palestine. He believed that Jews and
Arabs needed to "develop the land together without one imposing his will
on the other". In 1947, he wrote, "we describe our programme as that of
a bi-national state - that is, we aim at a social structure based on the
reality of two peoples living together... This is what we need and not a
"Jewish state"; for any national state in vast, hostile surroundings
could mean pre-meditated national suicide."

However, when the Israeli state gained independence in 1948, Buber
accepted it as a positive manifestation of Zionism, and embraced the
two-state solution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binational_solution

And so it goes.

Salaam
--

Billy

The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

"Dan L." wrote in message news:doesnotwork-

I have been looking for a book that describes what these acronym's mean:
C-3, C-4, F-1, F-2, H-1... I have seen these acronym's often on seed
packets and I am curious of the meaning of what these terms are. Know of
any books?


C3, C4 relate to different ways that the plant does photosynthesis. C4 have
some advantages in that they can keep doing photosynthesis better in hot
conditions. Unless you have some background in chemistry the explanation of
how and why is going to be very heavy going.

F1, F2 relate to the breeding of organisms. The "F" stands for fillial, ie
child. So F1 is the first child generation , F2 the second etc. The reason
that seed packets refer to F1 is that if bred in a particular way it may have
the advantage of hybrid vigour. Remember that generally genes come in pairs
and every child gets one of each pair from each parent.

The way the hybrid breeding works is that you keep two strains of breeding
stock pure, that is for the gene that you are interested in each stock has a
matched pair of genes. So for example if a certain gene (call it the Aye
gene) has forms A and a, then stock one would all be AA and stock 2 would all
be aa. When you cross the two stocks the first (and only the first)
generation are all Aa because they must get an A from one parent and an a from
the other. If the Aa combination is advantageous compared with either AA or
aa then you have an F1 that is uniformly Aa and has a hybrid advantage.

Plant merchants love this setup because the only way to get Aa in all the
progeny of a generation is as described above, so you have to either run your
own breeding program or buy new seed every year. The reason is that if you
breed the F1 together to get F2 it will be a mix of AA, Aa and aa, so if what
you want is Aa then on average only half the F2 will have it. The F3 and so
on will all be various mixtures. In summary hybrids cannot be true breeding.

This is just an example relating to one gene (Aye), obviously there are many
in each species.

Contrast this with heritage, open pollinated varieties. These are all AA (or
aa). Now they may not have the same hybrid vigour but this may not matter, in
many cases it doesn't. What they do have is true breeding. So if the parents
are AA the F1 will be AA (because they must get and A from each parent) and so
will F2 etc. So you can save your seed and be confident that as a population
the next generation will be the same as the last for the Aye gene. No
breeding program required, no need to buy new seed every year.

Just an example of how the Gods mock us, the major food crop that has the C4
advantage (corn) also is a poor performer as a true breeder, that is it takes
great benefit from the F1 hybrid strategy.

"Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed". Sounds cool also.
I am an avid reader of science fiction. Why I like science fiction is
they often describe "what if societies" and from these books from:
Robert A. Heinlen, Neal Stephenson and Vernor Vinge. From these books I
have a good idea how societies might succeed or fail, even from an
agricultural point of view.


"Collapse" is a very good series of case studies combined with explanation of
the principles being illustrated. Evan if you don't accept all of his
explanations the case studies are very informative. He shows that there are
many factors that are needed together to produce a robust healthy society and
failures all lack one or more.

Given the rate of failure of the past this can be rather depressing looking at
the future. I find the only way to avoid such depression is firstly, to be
optimistic that by understanding these modes of failure we can avoid them, and
secondly, to try to live accordingly. And before I am accused of being too
bloody holy - remember I said try.

David

"Dan L." wrote in message

From this book, "Please Understand Me II by David Keirsey" second
edition. Tells me indirectly why societies will Fail or Succeed. From
this book I found in short order who I will probably get along with and
who I will not. Why some people will listen to reason and those who will
not. Why many people will bend to fear and those who will not. Most
people will not listen to reason no matter what proof one has. Why some
care about others and why others will take advantage of others. The
author states our brains are hard wired from birth into sixteen
personalities. I am an "ENTJ", a messed up "ENTJ" but still an "ENTJ".
Everyone on this plant has been type casted, you can believe it or not.
This is also a top ten favorite book of mine.

These are known as the Myers Briggs personality types and you can do online
tests for them these days.

What fun.

I just did a couple and, much to my surprise given that my responses were
very quick and dirty, they both said I was an ENTP. This is exactly the
personality type I was told all those years ago when I did a lot of
Management training. And it was one of the very few items of management
training that I thought was useful. I realised after I had done it why I
had always made sure I recruited someone who was a strong SJ for my area.
they liked doing the things I hated like the detailed garbage work and they
could always be relied upon to make sure I always kept an eye on deadlines
for my area.
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Dan L." wrote in message

From this book, "Please Understand Me II by David Keirsey" second
edition. Tells me indirectly why societies will Fail or Succeed. From
this book I found in short order who I will probably get along with and
who I will not. Why some people will listen to reason and those who will
not. Why many people will bend to fear and those who will not. Most
people will not listen to reason no matter what proof one has. Why some
care about others and why others will take advantage of others. The
author states our brains are hard wired from birth into sixteen
personalities. I am an "ENTJ", a messed up "ENTJ" but still an "ENTJ".
Everyone on this plant has been type casted, you can believe it or not.
This is also a top ten favorite book of mine.

These are known as the Myers Briggs personality types and you can do online
tests for them these days.

What fun.

I just did a couple and, much to my surprise given that my responses were
very quick and dirty, they both said I was an ENTP. This is exactly the
personality type I was told all those years ago when I did a lot of
Management training. And it was one of the very few items of management
training that I thought was useful. I realised after I had done it why I
had always made sure I recruited someone who was a strong SJ for my area.
they liked doing the things I hated like the detailed garbage work and they
could always be relied upon to make sure I always kept an eye on deadlines
for my area.
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

I have a feeling most people on this news group are NT's. Into science
and how nature works. Other types tend to shy away from computers. Yes,
Myers Briggs was the original creator of the modern personality types.
David Keirsey like most scientist stood on her shoulders and made it
better.

In the past when looking for a good job, some places gave out
personality test. It was obvious most employers look for SJ's.
NT's minds tend to float from subject to subject, hard to focus.
However, SJ's and NT's tend not to get along. I like my current job, I
am by myself and as long as the work gets done, no complaints. I think
you are lucky to be the recruiter, otherwise you would not be employed
by your own standards.

If I was rich, I would become a hermit, tend my garden, run my
experiments and read my books and let the world go by and rot. Other
subjects I plan on reading are "Independence on five Acres" and "Quantum
Mechanics".

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

In article . com,
Steve wrote:

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:01:56 +1000, "David Hare-Scott"
wrote:

The way the hybrid breeding works is...

Thanks David for that insight.
Great post, very informative.

I agree ... Now where did I put that chemistry book.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Dan L." wrote in message

From this book, "Please Understand Me II by David Keirsey" second
edition. Tells me indirectly why societies will Fail or Succeed. From
this book I found in short order who I will probably get along with and
who I will not. Why some people will listen to reason and those who will
not. Why many people will bend to fear and those who will not. Most
people will not listen to reason no matter what proof one has. Why some
care about others and why others will take advantage of others. The
author states our brains are hard wired from birth into sixteen
personalities. I am an "ENTJ", a messed up "ENTJ" but still an "ENTJ".
Everyone on this plant has been type casted, you can believe it or not.
This is also a top ten favorite book of mine.

These are known as the Myers Briggs personality types and you can do online
tests for them these days.

What fun.

I just did a couple and, much to my surprise given that my responses were
very quick and dirty, they both said I was an ENTP. This is exactly the
personality type I was told all those years ago when I did a lot of
Management training. And it was one of the very few items of management
training that I thought was useful. I realised after I had done it why I
had always made sure I recruited someone who was a strong SJ for my area.
they liked doing the things I hated like the detailed garbage work and they
could always be relied upon to make sure I always kept an eye on deadlines
for my area.
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

Ok, I just took that on-line test I turned out to be "INTJ". It has been
years since I took the test. Might be closer to the truth. Thing is I do
like to talk to people (extrovert). However the more I talk to people in
person the more I hate them. NT's and NF's I get along well with, they
however are far and few between.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


I or E was close to 50/50.

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:15:41 -0700, Billy
wrote:

The Murder of Rachel Corrie
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml
Don't the pictures tell it all?

In article , Diogenes wrote:

No. They are cleverly faked, notably the one about Mohammed Al Dura,
the Palestinian boy allegedly shot by the IDF. Portions of a video
shot by the Palestinian cameraman who staged the shoot for a French TV
station have never been released.

Ignoring the change of subject, your article about Mohammed Al Dura is
a little too polemic to my taste. The article in Wikipedia is more
straight foreword and less partisan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Durrah . What ever the truth,
the fact remains that a child by that name arrived DOA at the Shifa
hospital in Gaza that day, and that the IDF knowingly destroyed the
crime scene. It is "arguable" that what was filmed, was staged.


It's fascinating that the people you list above -- Noam Chomsky (note
spelling), Bishop Tutu, Robert Fisk, and the US General Assembly --
share at least one characteristic: Unrelenting, unreasoning assaults
on Israel.

I guess you can add President Carter to that list as well. Funny how
advocates for equality and justice keep coming out against the Israeli
apartheid policies. The site you listed was also pro-Bush (I can't
believe I wrote his name) but that could have been a momentary lapse of
judgment.
http://politicscentral.com/2006/09/1...l_part_one.php

I somewhat regret having answered, since I don't want to open the
door on another endless discussion on a non-garden-related matter.
But I am not sorry I listed some sources. Perhaps you could seek
enlightenment at the suggested sites?

Diogenes

You are as patronizing as our local "tweaker". Scoring ego points really
can't further conversation. Since you haven't responded to my post, let
me leave you with the "King David Hotel" and Folke Bernadotte. Adieu.

--
Bush Behind Bars

Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

Not Good.

NEWS ALERT
from The Wall Street Journal

April 28, 2008

The Supreme Court ruled Monday that states can require voters to produce
photo identification without violating
their constitutional rights, validating Republican-inspired voter ID
laws. In a splintered 6-3 ruling, the court upheld Indiana's strict
photo ID requirement, which Democrats and civil rights groups said would
deter poor, older and minority voters from casting ballots. Its backers
said the law was needed to deter fraud.

For more information, see:
http://wsj.com?mod=djemalertNEWS

............

Look at this book some time to get on topic ).

Bill

..............................................
So Wrong for So Long: How the Press, the Pundits--and the
President--Failed on Iraq (Paperback)

http://www.amazon.com/So-Wrong-Long-...ed/dp/14027565
77/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209393932&sr= 1-1


"Bill Moyers, one of the country's great journalists, praised this book
for good reason -- it is a heartbreakingly convincing account of how the
media failed to perform the role that Jefferson and Madison
envisioned--to serve as critical interrogators and skeptics of the
government instead of its enablers. Mitchell details how the media aided
and abetted George Bush, Hillary Clinton and others in the Congress as
they recklessly and unquestioningly blundered into the Iraq war. I hope
that every journalist reads and learns from this well informed account
and that every American reads it and starts demanding more from the news
media created to keep us informed. This is one the most important books
of the past few years."

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA