In response to all the chatter about Dr. Scharcz being on the payroll
of the chemical companies, as well as his office, I sent him the
comments from this forum and he replied with the following:


Thanks for forwarding me that nonsense. Nobody funds me....except
McGill University . I do know where the CBI stuff comes from....a while
ago CBI funded some summer scholarships for McGill students, a couple of
whom ended up working in our office. That had nothing to do with
anything....certainly not with my book. These "organic" people are
paranoid and if a view doesn't fit into their "world view" they think
that some conspiracy is afoot. They generally have a very poor
scientific background and have no understanding of chemistry. They
could use a little oil for their mental machinery. Organic oil if they
so wish.
regards

Dr. Joe Schwarcz



Steve can take pot shots at Dr. Schwarcz to try and malign his knowledge
and connections, but he is only trying to divert people from
understanding what this well educated man has to say. He is well
recognized in the scientific community and well accepted by the public
who buy his books and watch his regular TV show up in Canada. Too bad
certain people have closed minds. Some may call that dogmatism but I
tend to think it is fanaticism.

Sherwin

In article ,
says...

In response to all the chatter about Dr. Scharcz being on the payroll
of the chemical companies, as well as his office, I sent him the
comments from this forum and he replied with the following:


Thanks for forwarding me that nonsense. Nobody funds me....except
McGill University . I do know where the CBI stuff comes from....a while
ago CBI funded some summer scholarships for McGill students, a couple of
whom ended up working in our office. That had nothing to do with
anything....certainly not with my book. These "organic" people are
paranoid and if a view doesn't fit into their "world view" they think
that some conspiracy is afoot. They generally have a very poor
scientific background and have no understanding of chemistry. They
could use a little oil for their mental machinery. Organic oil if they
so wish.
regards

Dr. Joe Schwarcz



Steve can take pot shots at Dr. Schwarcz to try and malign his knowledge
and connections, but he is only trying to divert people from
understanding what this well educated man has to say. He is well
recognized in the scientific community and well accepted by the public
who buy his books and watch his regular TV show up in Canada. Too bad
certain people have closed minds. Some may call that dogmatism but I
tend to think it is fanaticism.

ROTFL...

Ya know, the same can be said of you. Your adherence to a regime that is
either going to fail you or fail your successors isn't wise. It is
either pure lazines, selfishness, faith based or any combination of the
three.

Frankly, I see you and the other poisoners, and within the label I
include any agricultural or garden endeavour that cyclically uses *any*
kind of poison in a systematic and habitual way, as terminally short
sighted. You are engaged in a broadly based experiment in forced
evolution which will release the horseman of "famine".

In evolutionary terms, there is no long term up-side to the use of
pesticides and herbicides except to enrich the poisoners who are
cognizant enough of their product limitations to switch modalities and
continue hoovering up your money.

Of course, there is no long term up-side to us living in the numbers we
do, except to swarm.

Nothing you or Joe can say will prevent the codling moth from developing
resistance, as it already has in some areas. It -will- make its way to
your trees.

Eventually all pathways for toxic control will close and then the
pesticide dependant weakling species of plants will be decimated...

In article , phorbin1
@yahoo.com says...



Nothing you or Joe can say will prevent the codling moth from developing
resistance, as it already has in some areas. It -will- make its way to
your trees.

Eventually all pathways for toxic control will close and then the
pesticide dependant weakling species of plants will be decimated...



.........Well damn!!

I hit send instead of save.

In article
. easynews.com,
Steve wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2009 12:56:32 -0500, Charlie wrote:

I would like to see your letter to him, as well as his reply, full
headers included on both, and I would like to see where he granted
permission for you to post his reply on a public forum.

If that's not forthcoming in a day or two I'll write the good "doctor"
and ask him myself.
In response to all the chatter about Dr. Scharcz being on the payroll
of the chemical companies, as well as his office, I sent him the
comments from this forum and he replied with the following:


Thanks for forwarding me that nonsense. Nobody funds me....except
McGill University . I do know where the CBI stuff comes from....a while
ago CBI funded some summer scholarships for McGill students, a couple of
whom ended up working in our office. That had nothing to do with
anything....certainly not with my book.

These "organic" people are
paranoid and if a view doesn't fit into their "world view" they think
that some conspiracy is afoot. They generally have a very poor
scientific background and have no understanding of chemistry. They
could use a little oil for their mental machinery. Organic oil if they
so wish.
regards
- Dr. Joe Schwarcz


The phrase "These "organic" people", has such an air of hubris to it. Is
he expressing contemp for America's first family, who just put in an
organic garden, or is it reserved for some of Dr. Joe's fans (or
potential fans) who are organic. I think that the statement above is not
only disrespectful, but news worthy and should be forwarded to all the
major newspapers, if this is indeed the content of his email to Doo.

To add that it was in response to a charge of duplicity, makes it seem
even more self serving, which brings us back to where we begun. He, and
his institution are funded by the most un-organic companies on the
planet.

And who do we have to thank?

Our boy Doo ;O)
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

"sherwin dubren" wrote in message

In response to all the chatter about Dr. Scharcz being on the payroll
of the chemical companies, as well as his office, I sent him the
comments from this forum and he replied with the following:


Thanks for forwarding me that nonsense. Nobody funds me....except McGill
University . I do know where the CBI stuff comes from....a while ago
CBI funded some summer scholarships for McGill students, a couple of whom
ended up working in our office. That had nothing to do with
anything....certainly not with my book. These "organic" people are
paranoid and if a view doesn't fit into their "world view" they think that
some conspiracy is afoot. They generally have a very poor scientific
background and have no understanding of chemistry. They could use a
little oil for their mental machinery. Organic oil if they so wish.
regards

Dr. Joe Schwarcz



Steve can take pot shots at Dr. Schwarcz to try and malign his knowledge
and connections, but he is only trying to divert people from understanding
what this well educated man has to say. He is well
recognized in the scientific community and well accepted by the public
who buy his books and watch his regular TV show up in Canada. Too bad
certain people have closed minds. Some may call that dogmatism but I
tend to think it is fanaticism.

Several thought occur to me on reading your post.

Does Dr Schwarcz know that you were going to post a private email to a
public forum so that anyone can read it?

If, and I stress the 'if', you are really posting what Dr Schwarcz has
written to you, then his response to you is simply extraordinary.

Any scientist worth taking note of who responds to an email from a stranger
and who using such sloppy thinking to write words like "These "organic"
people are paranoid and if a view doesn't fit into their "world view" they
think that some conspiracy is afoot. " and that they "could use a little oil
for their mental machinery" is of questionable sense.

If he is a serious scientist, he would have been more temperate in his
language because he'd be used to the process of peer reviews and know that
he'd have to justify everything he says.

I doubt that you emailed him at all or that he responded.

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
. easynews.com,
Steve wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2009 12:56:32 -0500, Charlie wrote:

I would like to see your letter to him, as well as his reply, full
headers included on both, and I would like to see where he granted
permission for you to post his reply on a public forum.

If that's not forthcoming in a day or two I'll write the good "doctor"
and ask him myself.
In response to all the chatter about Dr. Scharcz being on the payroll
of the chemical companies, as well as his office, I sent him the
comments from this forum and he replied with the following:


Thanks for forwarding me that nonsense. Nobody funds me....except
McGill University . I do know where the CBI stuff comes from....a while
ago CBI funded some summer scholarships for McGill students, a couple of
whom ended up working in our office. That had nothing to do with
anything....certainly not with my book.

These "organic" people are
paranoid and if a view doesn't fit into their "world view" they think
that some conspiracy is afoot. They generally have a very poor
scientific background and have no understanding of chemistry. They
could use a little oil for their mental machinery. Organic oil if they
so wish.
regards
- Dr. Joe Schwarcz


The phrase "These "organic" people", has such an air of hubris to it. Is
he expressing contemp for America's first family, who just put in an
organic garden, or is it reserved for some of Dr. Joe's fans (or
potential fans) who are organic. I think that the statement above is not
only disrespectful, but news worthy and should be forwarded to all the
major newspapers, if this is indeed the content of his email to Doo.

To add that it was in response to a charge of duplicity, makes it seem
even more self serving, which brings us back to where we begun. He, and
his institution are funded by the most un-organic companies on the
planet.

And who do we have to thank?

Our boy Doo ;O)

So we should probably do a follow up with Dr. Joe, let him deny that he
wrote to Doo, and call off the dogs on the newspapers, probably.
I haven't had this much fun since, I can't remember when ;O)
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

Billy wrote:

http://web.archive.org/web/200707121...oss.mcgill.ca/

OSS receives support from McGill University, The Lorne Trottier Family
Foundation, The Council for Biotechnology Information and private donors.
© 2006 Department of Chemistry McGill University
Designed by JCC
-----

More unsubstanciated bullshit. There is nothing in the web page you
quote that refers to the Council for BioTechnology Information
giving support to OSS. I think you are just making this up.

http://www.whybiotech.com/index.asp?id=about

The Council for Biotechnology Information communicates science-based
information about the benefits and safety of agricultural and food
biotechnology. Its members are the leading biotechnology companies and
trade associations.

Did you bother to read what this Council is doing to improve the
environment. You probably stopped when you saw the words chemical
companies. Take off the blinders.

----

http://www.whybiotech.com/links/index.asp#10

Member Companies
€ BASF
€ Bayer CropScience
€ Dow AgroSciences LLC
€ DuPont
€ Monsanto Company
€ Syngenta

Research Institutions
Office of Chemistry and Society, McGill University (Canada)
(There were more but McGill is the one we're talking about.)
-------


Supporters of the motion cited the fact that **one third** (--- HELLO!)
of McGill's budget is from corporate sponsors and questioned whether the
money was funding student interests or those of the corporation.

First you attack the Chemical Companies

Then you attack renown professors.

Now you are attacking the Universities.

Is anyone safe?


----

McGill University, funding partnerships
http://pgss.mcgill.ca/POLICIES/index...try%20Research

University/Industry Research Partnerships
Preamble

A common form of university/industry partnership involves universities
contracting out
the use of their publicly funded facilities. Another common kind of
partnership involves
signing research contracts linking university researchers to industry,
whereby the
university receives industry money to generate research in a specific
area. Such contracts
may entail the **transfer of intellectual property to industry**.
(Yeah, McGill isn't the only one but it seems that, if industry puts up
the money and the public puts up the researchers, property rights should
at least be split.)

Oh, now it becomes a money issue. Where's your idealism now?

The Office of Chemistry and Society, McGill University, is partially
funded by BASF, Bayer CropScience, Dow AgroSciences LLC, DuPont,
Monsanto Company, and Syngenta. Are these philanthropic organizations,




Dr. Joe is a shill, a very charming one, but still a shill. I mean you
wouldn't expect them to hire "The Dick" Cheney?

Of course for a guy like you who probably had trouble finishing high
school, we should respect your opinions over the good doctor.

Sorry Billygoat, this is not a home run, but an end run that makes
no sense.

FarmI wrote:

Does Dr Schwarcz know that you were going to post a private email to a
public forum so that anyone can read it?

I don't think he would mind.

If, and I stress the 'if', you are really posting what Dr Schwarcz has
written to you, then his response to you is simply extraordinary.

Well, if it makes you feel better, think what you will.

Any scientist worth taking note of who responds to an email from a stranger
and who using such sloppy thinking to write words like "These "organic"
people are paranoid and if a view doesn't fit into their "world view" they
think that some conspiracy is afoot. " and that they "could use a little oil
for their mental machinery" is of questionable sense.

I simply sent him a copy of your responses. He is not afraid of you
loonies and has probably run into the likes of you before.

If he is a serious scientist, he would have been more temperate in his
language because he'd be used to the process of peer reviews and know that
he'd have to justify everything he says.

Since when are scientists held to such a standard?



I doubt that you emailed him at all or that he responded.

Unlike your little group, I don't make things up.

Sherwin

*snip*

I'm sure this will be a stupid question, but who is this Dr. Schwarcz? The
name is not familiar at all...

In article ,
sherwin dubren wrote:

Billy wrote:

http://web.archive.org/web/200707121...oss.mcgill.ca/

OSS receives support from McGill University, The Lorne Trottier Family
Foundation, The Council for Biotechnology Information and private donors.
© 2006 Department of Chemistry McGill University
Designed by JCC
-----

More unsubstanciated bullshit. There is nothing in the web page you
quote that refers to the Council for BioTechnology Information
giving support to OSS. I think you are just making this up.


Look at the bottom of the page Doo. If you suddenly find that "3%E"
has been mysteriously added to the URL, remove it and try again.

You placed your assertion that pesticides and herbicides the authority
of Professor Joeseph Schwarcz. In a litigious society, we first
determine the credibility of the authority cited. With a 1/3 of McGills
funding coming from corporations, "biocide" producers supporting McGills
Office for Science and Society, and Dr. Joe Schwarcz being the director
of McGill University¹s Office for Chemistry and Society,
http://www.leckeragency.com/authors/schwarcz.html
and the new chair of the ACCN Editorial Board
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...25731522/?tag=
content;col1
it would appear that he has a clear conflict of interest and should not
be used as a character witness for the companies that support him and
the institution for which he works.

Come on Doo. Use that dormant organ between your ears.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

On May 26, 3:16*am, "Lilah Morgan" wrote:
*snip*

I'm sure this will be a stupid question, but who is this Dr. Schwarcz? The
name is not familiar at all...

For those unfamiliar or who did not follow from the beginning, Dr Joe
Schwarz is a noted professor that tries to make science more fun and
understandable for the average person. He has a large following in
Canada, and is well respected in Montreal. He's a little like Jerry
Baker in terms of what he preaches. Some people swear by their
methods, others feel they are quacks. Many say Dr. Joe is too liberal
and accepting of chemicals in his day to day suggestions.

http://oss.mcgill.ca/schwarcz.php

I've listened to Dr. Joe on CJAD radio Canada and what he says seems
to make pretty good sense in most cases, although I certainly would
not try to dissuade anyone who prefers an "all-organic" approach to
gardening. His topics are not exclusive to gardening, but offers
advice on various issues, including nutritional info, dieting, etc.

http://www.cjad.com/shows/19157

By the way, the quoted letter from Sherwin is very similar to how the
doctor actually speaks on his show, so it is very likely to be
genuine. You can certainly call the show and debate his objectivity on
air. It would actually be interesting to hear. ;-)

SteveN

In the name of fairness, I wrote to Dr. Joe.
Joe Schwarcz:
http://oss.mcgill.ca/contact.php

26 May, 2009

Professor Schwarcz,
there is a debate, in the UseNet group rec.gardens.edible, over the use
of herbicides and pesticides.
A poster there, using the name Sherwin Dubren, claims to have
purportedly received an email from you, which he posted on 25 May, 2009.

Path:
news.sonic.net!nnrp0.nntp.sonic.net!199.245.68.22. MISMATCH!spool2.nntp.so
nic.net!news-xfer.nntp.sonic.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!feeder.motzarel
la.org!news.motzarella.org!news.eternal-september.org!not-for-mail
From: sherwin dubren
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Subject: Dr. Schwarcz replies
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 01:55:14 -0500
Organization: dopey/hfzvhjdp7 name and password (sherwindu/hsrwuuiew?)
Lines: 31
Message-ID:
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: news.eternal-september.org
U2FsdGVkX19xDDd8tHj01Vvk/mqGdZy0GRWzs2U+TMacU1fa4bRQ9V6wfWfgdWixcVx1COp+c
6j8u600lBo26hh07Phpti+i7ZA18t0Xxu3FRDkTlaBNFayo/5O6kPQyPOMBE0VyROv+thkDBq
RF8w==
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 06:55:14 +0000 (UTC)
X-Stationery: 0.4.8.14
X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1/zdKjShTTbAq1zz9mNEyzx0QvojyxRpXk=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:5ROm+5ASTLRQUvqA3qtYA2luF6U=
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302)


In response to all the chatter about Dr. Scharcz being on the payroll
of the chemical companies, as well as his office, I sent him the
comments from this forum and he replied with the following:


Thanks for forwarding me that nonsense. Nobody funds me....except
McGill University . I do know where the CBI stuff comes from....a while
ago CBI funded some summer scholarships for McGill students, a couple of
whom ended up working in our office. That had nothing to do with
anything....certainly not with my book. These "organic" people are
paranoid and if a view doesn't fit into their "world view" they think
that some conspiracy is afoot. They generally have a very poor
scientific background and have no understanding of chemistry. They
could use a little oil for their mental machinery. Organic oil if they
so wish.
regards

Dr. Joe Schwarcz



Steve can take pot shots at Dr. Schwarcz to try and malign his knowledge
and connections, but he is only trying to divert people from
understanding what this well educated man has to say. He is well
recognized in the scientific community and well accepted by the public
who buy his books and watch his regular TV show up in Canada. Too bad
certain people have closed minds. Some may call that dogmatism but I
tend to think it is fanaticism.

Sherwin

-------

Some of us would like to know if this accurately reflects your attitude
about "organic" farming (in the contemporary sense of the word).

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Bill Rose

----

I urge others of you to write to Dr. Joe as well.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

Ok thanks. I have enough TV shows to watch as is, that's why I like being
able to see stuff online.

"steven_nospam at Yahoo! Canada" wrote in message
...

For those unfamiliar or who did not follow from the beginning, Dr Joe
Schwarz is a noted professor that tries to make science more fun and
understandable for the average person. He has a large following in
Canada, and is well respected in Montreal. He's a little like Jerry
Baker in terms of what he preaches. Some people swear by their
methods, others feel they are quacks. Many say Dr. Joe is too liberal
and accepting of chemicals in his day to day suggestions.

http://oss.mcgill.ca/schwarcz.php

I've listened to Dr. Joe on CJAD radio Canada and what he says seems
to make pretty good sense in most cases, although I certainly would
not try to dissuade anyone who prefers an "all-organic" approach to
gardening. His topics are not exclusive to gardening, but offers
advice on various issues, including nutritional info, dieting, etc.

http://www.cjad.com/shows/19157

By the way, the quoted letter from Sherwin is very similar to how the
doctor actually speaks on his show, so it is very likely to be
genuine. You can certainly call the show and debate his objectivity on
air. It would actually be interesting to hear. ;-)

SteveN

In article ,
"Lilah Morgan" wrote:

Ok thanks. I have enough TV shows to watch as is, that's why I like being
able to see stuff online.

"steven_nospam at Yahoo! Canada" wrote in message
...

For those unfamiliar or who did not follow from the beginning, Dr Joe
Schwarz is a noted professor that tries to make science more fun and
understandable for the average person.

The question is, does he have a conflict of intere$t that skews his
presentations?
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html

In article ,
wrote:

On Tue, 26 May 2009 12:48:56 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"sherwin dubren" wrote in message

In response to all the chatter about Dr. Scharcz being on the payroll
of the chemical companies, as well as his office, I sent him the
comments from this forum and he replied with the following:


Thanks for forwarding me that nonsense. Nobody funds me....except McGill
University . I do know where the CBI stuff comes from....a while ago
CBI funded some summer scholarships for McGill students, a couple of whom
ended up working in our office. That had nothing to do with
anything....certainly not with my book. These "organic" people are
paranoid and if a view doesn't fit into their "world view" they think that
some conspiracy is afoot. They generally have a very poor scientific
background and have no understanding of chemistry. They could use a
little oil for their mental machinery. Organic oil if they so wish.
regards

Dr. Joe Schwarcz



Steve can take pot shots at Dr. Schwarcz to try and malign his knowledge
and connections, but he is only trying to divert people from understanding
what this well educated man has to say. He is well
recognized in the scientific community and well accepted by the public
who buy his books and watch his regular TV show up in Canada. Too bad
certain people have closed minds. Some may call that dogmatism but I
tend to think it is fanaticism.

Several thought occur to me on reading your post.

Does Dr Schwarcz know that you were going to post a private email to a
public forum so that anyone can read it?

If, and I stress the 'if', you are really posting what Dr Schwarcz has
written to you, then his response to you is simply extraordinary.

Any scientist worth taking note of who responds to an email from a stranger
and who using such sloppy thinking to write words like "These "organic"
people are paranoid and if a view doesn't fit into their "world view" they
think that some conspiracy is afoot. " and that they "could use a little oil
for their mental machinery" is of questionable sense.

If he is a serious scientist, he would have been more temperate in his
language because he'd be used to the process of peer reviews and know that
he'd have to justify everything he says.

I doubt that you emailed him at all or that he responded.





You have obviously never talked to a scientist. We come in all
stripes, just like most other professions. One thing we have in
common is a distain for those who never bothered to learn to think.
Unfortunately that is more than 90% of even well educated people. That
trait makes us most unpopular at parties and family reunions. If you
really want to rile a scientist up, imply his or her work is tainted
by conflicts in funding sources that don't actually exist. I
certainly don't find the tone or language of Dr. Schwarcz' reply
unusual for a casual conversation. We laugh at you all the time.

Tough talk for someone who won't identify themselves. Be quiet and hide
in the shadow and we won't laugh too much at you.

Must be "Open Gate Day" at the funny farm. You are obviously not a
scientist, for scientists justify their words, and I doubt your
education has anything to do with your lack of popularity.

It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our
humanity.
Albert Einstein

A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?
Albert Einstein

Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not
giving the kiss the attention it deserves.
Albert Einstein
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2TzBE0lp4

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050688.html