"Billy" wrote in message

The problem seems to be that the entire world aspires to the American
life style, that was based on being the only major industrial country
not in ruins after WWII. For a short time, we had the stay at home mom,
whose family could live well on the husbands wages. That time is long
gone, and real income for most Americans has remained flat for the last
30 years, while the upper 20% of earners have seen their incomes soar.

Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now owns
nearly all American debt. The next few years could be interesting.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in
:

"Billy" wrote in message

The problem seems to be that the entire world aspires to the
American life style, that was based on being the only major
industrial country not in ruins after WWII. For a short time,
we had the stay at home mom, whose family could live well on
the husbands wages. That time is long gone, and real income for
most Americans has remained flat for the last 30 years, while
the upper 20% of earners have seen their incomes soar.

Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that
China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years
could be interesting.

i know you're in OZ, but do you know if it's difficult for Americans
to emigrate to NZ (or OZ, as well)?
lee eyeing 709 hectacres in NZ)

In article ,
enigma wrote:

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in
:

"Billy" wrote in message

The problem seems to be that the entire world aspires to the
American life style, that was based on being the only major
industrial country not in ruins after WWII. For a short time,
we had the stay at home mom, whose family could live well on
the husbands wages. That time is long gone, and real income for
most Americans has remained flat for the last 30 years, while
the upper 20% of earners have seen their incomes soar.

Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that
China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years
could be interesting.
Yeah, but if they turn our money into trash, they turn their
$TRILLION investment into trash. Not that we may not use hyper-inflation,
like the Germans after WWI, to reduce the debt to insignificance.

i know you're in OZ, but do you know if it's difficult for Americans
to emigrate to NZ (or OZ, as well)?
lee eyeing 709 hectacres in NZ)

Good luck Lee, but there is a reason why they call them
multinationals. The "paid for" politicians, and the nations are
expendable. You'll find them anywhere a buck is to be made.
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

Billy wrote in

t.au:

Good luck Lee, but there is a reason why they call them
multinationals. The "paid for" politicians, and the nations are
expendable. You'll find them anywhere a buck is to be made.

oh, i know, but somehow 709 hectacres seems a bit more private than
my current 62 acres... and i bet i could really see the stars out
there, just different ones.
lee

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Billy wrote in

t.au:

Good luck Lee, but there is a reason why they call them
multinationals. The "paid for" politicians, and the nations are
expendable. You'll find them anywhere a buck is to be made.

oh, i know, but somehow 709 hectacres seems a bit more private than
my current 62 acres... and i bet i could really see the stars out
there, just different ones.
lee

Outside and inside not one not two. Wherever we are some old chinese
guys might suggest working with what we have not trying force change
just not resisting it. Sort of like letting a field go dormant for a
year or two before I try to manipulate it. The stars are always out but
floating in a black lake in Rhode Island after a sauna 11.00 PM it is
easier to see. Some call that holiday .

Bill waxing as my kids have been about and my Dad will be here twice
today. Not too bad.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."
-Philo of Alexandria

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Billy wrote in

t.au:

Good luck Lee, but there is a reason why they call them
multinationals. The "paid for" politicians, and the nations are
expendable. You'll find them anywhere a buck is to be made.

oh, i know, but somehow 709 hectacres seems a bit more private than
my current 62 acres... and i bet i could really see the stars out
there, just different ones.
lee

Almost 3 sq. miles for 62 acres? Oh, to be young again. Hell, I'd settle
for another 20 years ;O) And you can do this in Oz or Kiwiland?
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

"enigma" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in

Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that
China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years
could be interesting.

i know you're in OZ, but do you know if it's difficult for Americans
to emigrate to NZ (or OZ, as well)?
lee eyeing 709 hectacres in NZ)

Dunno about NZ - Pete Heubner would probably know something about that given
that he migrated to NZ from Europe.

As for Oz, the only things I know are either anecdotal or what I read in
the paper. In some ways we're like the US in that we have 'guest workers'
from poorer countries but at the top end of the scale (either in terms of
unique skills or large fortunes) we will take people. I'm guessing you
might be in the middle of these two ends. Here's the place to start:
http://www.immi.gov.au/

Anecdotal info is from two friends who have moved here - one a Canadian of
40 with a teenaged son and the other is a British woman who is retired and I
guess could be described as being of "independent means".

The Canadian woman has enough money to put down a hefty deposit on a house
but will need to work till retirement. She is having some problems but it
looks like she'll be able to stay.

The British woman is here permanently as I think this might be because she
will never be living off the government - ie she won't be asking for an Old
Age Pension.

One thing that I know cold cause a problem for Oz immigration and probably
NZ as well would be Boo's Autism. All migrants are subject to health checks
and the possibility that children of the primary migrants may end up needing
health care some time in the future after the parents shuffle off their
mortal coil seems to be a problem.

enigma wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in
:

"Billy" wrote in message

The problem seems to be that the entire world aspires to the
American life style, that was based on being the only major
industrial country not in ruins after WWII. For a short time,
we had the stay at home mom, whose family could live well on
the husbands wages. That time is long gone, and real income for
most Americans has remained flat for the last 30 years, while
the upper 20% of earners have seen their incomes soar.

Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that
China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years
could be interesting.

i know you're in OZ, but do you know if it's difficult for Americans
to emigrate to NZ (or OZ, as well)?
lee eyeing 709 hectacres in NZ)

Dunno about EnZed. In Oz you are in if you bring either lots of $$$ or a
vocational skill in demand. You are out if you are in poor health (we have
approximately universal health care) or otherwise likely to be a drag on the
public purse. Unless you are a refugee: do you come from a war zone or are
you about to be garroted by a masked squad in the night?

As for 700 hectares it's available in many places. You can get it for a
reasonable price if you don't mind that it is mostly bush or the rainfall is
rather low or a long way from anywhere, or all of the above. If you want
good soil and water you will pay big bickies. If you want good soil and
water near civilisation you will pay very big bickies.

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Unless you are a refugee: do you come from a war zone or are
you about to be garroted by a masked squad in the night?

Not so much recently. We have a young smiley face on fascism now, and a
new PR team, but things could change.

Used to be Oz was deferential to teachers on immigration. Is that still
true?

Lee, you must have seen
http://www.realestate.co.nz/rural/se...=2000000&min_p
rice=0&max_price=99000000
Hmmmmm, hmmm, hmm ))
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

Billy wrote in

t.au:

Lee, you must have seen
http://www.realestate.co.nz/rural/se...rea_sq_m=20000
00&min_p rice=0&max_price=99000000
Hmmmmm, hmmm, hmm ))

no, i hadn't! thanks!
lee

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Unless you are a refugee: do you come from a war zone or are
you about to be garroted by a masked squad in the night?

Not so much recently. We have a young smiley face on fascism now, and
a new PR team, but things could change.

Used to be Oz was deferential to teachers on immigration. Is that
still true?


These things go in cycles, sometimes it's teachers, sometimes, doctors, it
could be plumbers this month, whatever the Powers forgot to train 5 years
ago.

David

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Billy" wrote in message

The problem seems to be that the entire world aspires to the American
life style, that was based on being the only major industrial country
not in ruins after WWII. For a short time, we had the stay at home mom,
whose family could live well on the husbands wages. That time is long
gone, and real income for most Americans has remained flat for the last
30 years, while the upper 20% of earners have seen their incomes soar.

Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now
owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be interesting.

You don't need to wonder, we will still lead. ~25-28% is hardly all.
Beside what are they going to do, repossess us? Its not like we sold out
our mining companies to em.

In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:


Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now
owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be interesting.

You don't need to wonder, we will still lead. ~25-28% is hardly all.
Beside what are they going to do, repossess us? Its not like we sold out
our mining companies to em.

You see gunner, this is what worries me. You don't have a freakin' idea
as to what is going on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/bu...ss/28mine.html
Australia Blocks China¹s Purchase of Mining Company

And most of our $4TRILLION debt was racked up under President Monkey
Smirk, in order to give us guns and butter, in the short term, while he
pushed his "vanity wars".
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:


Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now
owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be
interesting.

You don't need to wonder, we will still lead. ~25-28% is hardly all.
Beside what are they going to do, repossess us? Its not like we sold out
our mining companies to em.

You see gunner, this is what worries me. You don't have a freakin' idea
as to what is going on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/bu...ss/28mine.html
Australia Blocks China¹s Purchase of Mining Company

And most of our $4TRILLION debt was racked up under President Monkey
Smirk, in order to give us guns and butter, in the short term, while he
pushed his "vanity wars".


Still asleep at the wheel Billy? as in most of your posts, you invariably
fail to read through your "cites" as well as skip over a lot of facts.
Finish readin the entire news article you posted before you stupidly pop
off again.

Where you went to school is ~25 % considered all ?

President Monkey Smirk? As always what has that diversionary BS have to do
with your misunderstanding of facts.

$4 trillion? you are sooo underestimating, try closer to $11 T. there slick

You have the right to to use facts, Billy, you do not have the right to
make them up! her are some crib notes for ya, but remember to verify them
they are Jan 2009, at least their not in your old time zone of 1909.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

People's Republic of China 739.6 24.07%
Japan 634.8 20.66%
Oil exporters 186.3 6.06%
Caribbean banking centers 176.6 5.75%
Brazil 133.5 4.35%
United Kingdom 124.2 4.04%
Russia 119.6 3.89%
Luxembourg 87.2 2.84%

In article ,
"gunner" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote:


Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now
owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be
interesting.

You don't need to wonder, we will still lead. ~25-28% is hardly all.
Beside what are they going to do, repossess us? Its not like we sold out
our mining companies to em.

You see gunner, this is what worries me. You don't have a freakin' idea
as to what is going on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/bu...ss/28mine.html
Australia Blocks China¹s Purchase of Mining Company
So you agree that Australia isn't selling it's mining interests to the
Chinese. Glad you came to your senses. Not that it is the Chinese's
fault that everybody and his mother's brother has picked China to be the
manufacturer to the world. If we want them to make stuff cheaply that we
can buy at Wally World (Walmart), then they need raw materials. That
should be obvious even to a blundering blockhead like you.

And most of our $4TRILLION debt was racked up under President Monkey
Smirk, in order to give us guns and butter, in the short term, while he
pushed his "vanity wars".


Still asleep at the wheel Billy? as in most of your posts, you invariably
fail to read through your "cites" as well as skip over a lot of facts.
Finish readin the entire news article you posted before you stupidly pop
off again.
I'm sorry, were these the ones on pesticides?

Where you went to school is ~25 % considered all ?
Now you are referring to FarmI's fair characterization of US debt.

President Monkey Smirk? As always what has that diversionary BS have to do
with your misunderstanding of facts.
Pictures are worth a thousand words. See Monkey Smirk.
http://tinypic.com/1r509n5u

$4 trillion? you are sooo underestimating, try closer to $11 T. there slick
Gunneria, don't call me slick. You're right. I shouldn't have used the
numbers that YOU provided.

You have the right to to use facts, Billy, you do not have the right to
make them up! her are some crib notes for ya, but remember to verify them
they are Jan 2009, at least their not in your old time zone of 1909.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

People's Republic of China 739.6 24.07%
Japan 634.8 20.66%
Oil exporters 186.3 6.06%
Caribbean banking centers 176.6 5.75%
Brazil 133.5 4.35%
United Kingdom 124.2 4.04%
Russia 119.6 3.89%
Luxembourg 87.2 2.84%
It's interesting to note how under the former party of fiscal
responsibility (GOP) US debt has skyrocketed since Raygun, with only a
brief correction during the Clinton years, and then it was back to
"borrow and spend" as usual, transferring the wealth to the rich.

Wonder what we could do with the savings from canceling the
privatization of government functions (which in private hands need a
profit) and only spending a quarter of the world investment in weapons,
instead of the 50% that we do now.

Otherwise:

US Military Budget
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar..._United_States

US Public Debt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

Wealth in the United States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_..._United_States

US Household income
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househo..._United_States

Ex-Asst. Treasury Sec. Paul Craig Roberts on Wall St. Bailout: "Has
Deregulation Sired Fascism?"
http://www.democracynow.org/

The New Kleptocracy
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle21041.htm

You do bring a lot of manure to the group, Gunneria, but it isn't
in a useful form.

I think you would be happier over in tx.guns.

In any event, this is a gardening group, so **** off.
We're done here.
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and
find out for themselves.
Will Rogers

http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour
http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn