Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in
: "Billy" wrote in message The problem seems to be that the entire world aspires to the American life style, that was based on being the only major industrial country not in ruins after WWII. For a short time, we had the stay at home mom, whose family could live well on the husbands wages. That time is long gone, and real income for most Americans has remained flat for the last 30 years, while the upper 20% of earners have seen their incomes soar. Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be interesting. i know you're in OZ, but do you know if it's difficult for Americans to emigrate to NZ (or OZ, as well)? lee eyeing 709 hectacres in NZ) |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
In article
, Special Agent Melvin Purvis wrote: http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...bles-contain-a... iotics No problamo. Zee canpaneros have feexed eet. You know how eet is. Gringos don't even know zee metric system, and you can't leave zeem alone weeth a stinkin' URL, weethout zeem mucking eet up. Andale muchachos, before zai screw eet up again. http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...s-contain-anti biotics January 6, 2009 Worried about Antibiotics in Your Beef? Vegetables May Be No Better New studies show vegetables like lettuce and potatoes--even organic ones--may carry antibiotics ByÂ*Matthew Cimitile For half a century, meat producers have fed antibiotics to farm animals to increase their growth and stave off infections. Now scientists have discovered that those drugs are sprouting up in unexpected places: Vegetables such as corn, potatoes and lettuce absorb antibiotics when grown in soil fertilized with livestock manure, according to tests conducted at the University of Minnesota. Today, close to 70 percent of all antibiotics and related drugs used in the United States are routinely fed to cattle, pigs and poultry, according to the Union of Concerned Scientists. Although this practice sustains a growing demand for meat, it also generates public health fears associated with the expanding presence of antibiotics in the food chain. People have long been exposed to antibiotics in meat and milk. Now, the new research shows that they also may be ingesting them from vegetables, perhaps even ones grown on organic farms. The Minnesota researchers planted corn, green onion and cabbage in manure-treated soil in 2005 to evaluate the environmental impacts of feeding antibiotics to livestock. Six weeks later, the crops were analyzed and found to absorb chlortetracycline, a drug widely used to treat diseases in livestock. In another study two years later, corn, lettuce and potato were planted in soil treated with liquid hog manure. They, too, accumulated concentrations of an antibiotic, named Sulfamethazine, also commonly used in livestock. As the amount of antibiotics in the soil increased, so too did the levels taken up by the corn, potatoes and other plants. "Around 90 percent of these drugs that are administered to animals end up being excreted either as urine or manure," said Holly Dolliver, a member of the Minnesota research team and now a professor of crop and soil sciences at the University of Wisconsin-River Falls. "A vast majority of that manure is then used as an important input for 9.2 million hectares of (U.S.) agricultural land." Manure, widely used as a substitute for chemical fertilizer, adds nutrients that help plants grow. It is often used in organic farming. The scientists found that although their crops were only propagated in greenhouses for six weeks--far less than a normal growing season--antibiotics were absorbed readily into their leaves. If grown for a full season, drugs most likely would find their way into parts of plants that humans eat, said Dolliver. Less than 0.1 percent of antibiotics applied to soil were absorbed into the corn, lettuce and other plants. Though a tiny amount, health implications for people consuming such small, cumulative doses are largely unknown. "The antibiotic accumulation in plants is just another negative consequence of our animal agriculture industry and not surprising given the quantity fed to livestock," said Steve Roach, public health program director for the non-profit Food Animal Concerns Trust. For highly processed plants such as corn, the drugs would most likely be removed, added Dolliver. But many food crops such as spinach and lettuce are not processed, only washed, allowing antibiotics to remain. "Nobody particularly eats corn or soybean directly," said Satish Gupta, a University of Minnesota professor of soil science and study leader. "But there are crops I am much more worried about, like cabbage and lettuce, because these are leaves we eat directly and consume raw." One finding that particularly worries food scientists is the accumulation of antibiotics within potato tubers. Tubers are an enlarged, underground stem that uptake and store nutrients from the soil. In crops like potatoes, carrots and radishes, it is the part humans eat. "Since these tubers and root crops are in direct contact with the soil they may show a greater propensity for [antibiotic] uptake," said Gupta. Health officials fear that eating vegetables and meat laced with drugs meant to treat infections can promote resistant strains of bacteria in food and the environment. Roach said "the clearest public health implication" from treating livestock with antibiotics is the development of resistant bacteria that reduces the effectiveness of human medicine. Past studies have shown overuse of antibiotics reduces their ability to cure infections. Over time, certain antibiotics are rendered ineffective. Scientists believe antibiotics also may have contributed to the explosive rise in asthma and allergies in children over the last 20 years. Researchers at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, following 448 children from birth for seven years, reported that children who received antibiotics within their first six months had a higher risk of developing allergies and asthma. Such health concerns led the European Union in 2006 to ban antibiotic use as feed additives for promoting livestock growth. But in the United States, nearly 25 million pounds of antibiotics per year, up from 16 million in the mid 1980s, are given to healthy animals for agriculture purposes, according to a 2000 report by the Union of Concerned Scientists. Livestock producers contend that the spread of resistant strains of bacteria stems from the overuse of all medicines to treat infectious diseases in both humans and animals. Removal of antibiotics, they say, would only lead to increased disease in animals and reduction in food safety. Tainted manure can impact more than just the soil. Once applied to the land, antibiotics can infiltrate water supplies as it seeps through the soil into aquifers or spills into surface water due to runoff, explained Dolliver. "The other thing to remember is that the field is not a sterile environment. Mice, rabbit and foxes traverse farmland while other animals graze, all with the potential to become vectors for the resistant bacteria organisms and spread it throughout different animal populations," said Pat Millner, a U.S. Department of Agriculture microbiologist based in Maryland. The presence of antibiotics within the food chain is likely to increase as the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has permitted greater use of controversial drugs on farm animals. For example, this past October, the FDA dropped plans to halt use of cefquinome, a potent antibiotic, after it said in July it would push against its use in animals. Even if a product has the USDA organic label, it still can harbor traces of antibiotics, Gupta said. While there are restrictions on use of raw manure in U.S. organic farming because of concern over bacteria, no such rules are in place regarding antibiotics or hormones. Not all organic growers use manure with antibiotics, but many do, said Gupta. High-temperature composting of manure, designed to kill pathogens, is required for crops certified under the USDA label. That could eliminate some antibiotics. But growers are not required to check for the drugs. "We urgently need to find some way to put guidelines in place on organic food regarding these chemicals," Gupta said. Gupta said all growers should be told that composting can help. Composting decays piles of food or manure as microbes decompose organic matter using oxygen to survive, grow and reproduce. Heating up the material creates conditions conducive for bacteria to break down antibiotics and pathogens. A pilot study by USDA scientists in Maryland added straw to a beef cattle manure pile, heating up the dense material while allowing spaces for air to penetrate. The higher temperatures sped up the decaying process of harmful substances. "The process happens very rapidly, in this study it took about 10 days," said Millner. "This is not too surprising since antibiotics are not a thermally stable chemical compound." In another study, the same researchers who discovered the uptake of antibiotics by plants tested four of these drugs to determine how effective composting would be in reducing harmful chemicals in turkey manure. After 25 days using a combination of natural heat generated by microbial activity, three of the four antibiotics broke down under the high energy conditions created, said Dolliver. Composting reduced concentrations of some antibiotics by up to 99 percent. "These findings suggest manure management can be an important strategy for reducing the overall impact for these compounds making their way into the environment," said Dolliver. Many questions still remain. Currently, projects are underway to grow crops for a full season in antibiotic laced manure, to grow them in fields rather than greenhouses and to analyze the concentrations and locations of the antibiotics within the plants. Researchers also want to determine which antibiotics are more likely to be picked up, which plants are more prone to uptake, what composting methods are most effective in reducing harmful material in manure and what antibiotics may be resistant to composting. There are serious societal implications regarding the discoveries already made and the questions yet to be answered, Gupta concluded. "We are a chemical society and humans are the main user of pharmaceutical products," said Gupta. "We need a better understanding of what takes place when chemicals are applied to sources of food and must be more vigilant about regulating what we use to grow food and what we put in our bodies." This article originally ran at Environmental Health News, a news source published by Environmental Health Sciences, a nonprofit media company. ----- And why ees zee above importante? http://www.biojobblog.com/2009/03/ar...methicillin-re sistant-staphylococcus-aureus-a-growing-link-between-mrsa-infections-and- pigs/ and http://www.grist.org/article/a-superbugs-life/ Buena lectura. -- - Billy There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Will Rogers http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
In article ,
enigma wrote: "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in : "Billy" wrote in message The problem seems to be that the entire world aspires to the American life style, that was based on being the only major industrial country not in ruins after WWII. For a short time, we had the stay at home mom, whose family could live well on the husbands wages. That time is long gone, and real income for most Americans has remained flat for the last 30 years, while the upper 20% of earners have seen their incomes soar. Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be interesting. Yeah, but if they turn our money into trash, they turn their $TRILLION investment into trash. Not that we may not use hyper-inflation, like the Germans after WWI, to reduce the debt to insignificance. i know you're in OZ, but do you know if it's difficult for Americans to emigrate to NZ (or OZ, as well)? lee eyeing 709 hectacres in NZ) Good luck Lee, but there is a reason why they call them multinationals. The "paid for" politicians, and the nations are expendable. You'll find them anywhere a buck is to be made. -- - Billy There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Will Rogers http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
Billy wrote in
t.au: Good luck Lee, but there is a reason why they call them multinationals. The "paid for" politicians, and the nations are expendable. You'll find them anywhere a buck is to be made. oh, i know, but somehow 709 hectacres seems a bit more private than my current 62 acres... and i bet i could really see the stars out there, just different ones. lee |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
In article ,
enigma wrote: Billy wrote in t.au: Good luck Lee, but there is a reason why they call them multinationals. The "paid for" politicians, and the nations are expendable. You'll find them anywhere a buck is to be made. oh, i know, but somehow 709 hectacres seems a bit more private than my current 62 acres... and i bet i could really see the stars out there, just different ones. lee Outside and inside not one not two. Wherever we are some old chinese guys might suggest working with what we have not trying force change just not resisting it. Sort of like letting a field go dormant for a year or two before I try to manipulate it. The stars are always out but floating in a black lake in Rhode Island after a sauna 11.00 PM it is easier to see. Some call that holiday . Bill waxing as my kids have been about and my Dad will be here twice today. Not too bad. -- Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." -Philo of Alexandria |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
In article ,
enigma wrote: Billy wrote in t.au: Good luck Lee, but there is a reason why they call them multinationals. The "paid for" politicians, and the nations are expendable. You'll find them anywhere a buck is to be made. oh, i know, but somehow 709 hectacres seems a bit more private than my current 62 acres... and i bet i could really see the stars out there, just different ones. lee Almost 3 sq. miles for 62 acres? Oh, to be young again. Hell, I'd settle for another 20 years ;O) And you can do this in Oz or Kiwiland? -- - Billy There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Will Rogers http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
"enigma" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be interesting. i know you're in OZ, but do you know if it's difficult for Americans to emigrate to NZ (or OZ, as well)? lee eyeing 709 hectacres in NZ) Dunno about NZ - Pete Heubner would probably know something about that given that he migrated to NZ from Europe. As for Oz, the only things I know are either anecdotal or what I read in the paper. In some ways we're like the US in that we have 'guest workers' from poorer countries but at the top end of the scale (either in terms of unique skills or large fortunes) we will take people. I'm guessing you might be in the middle of these two ends. Here's the place to start: http://www.immi.gov.au/ Anecdotal info is from two friends who have moved here - one a Canadian of 40 with a teenaged son and the other is a British woman who is retired and I guess could be described as being of "independent means". The Canadian woman has enough money to put down a hefty deposit on a house but will need to work till retirement. She is having some problems but it looks like she'll be able to stay. The British woman is here permanently as I think this might be because she will never be living off the government - ie she won't be asking for an Old Age Pension. One thing that I know cold cause a problem for Oz immigration and probably NZ as well would be Boo's Autism. All migrants are subject to health checks and the possibility that children of the primary migrants may end up needing health care some time in the future after the parents shuffle off their mortal coil seems to be a problem. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
enigma wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in : "Billy" wrote in message The problem seems to be that the entire world aspires to the American life style, that was based on being the only major industrial country not in ruins after WWII. For a short time, we had the stay at home mom, whose family could live well on the husbands wages. That time is long gone, and real income for most Americans has remained flat for the last 30 years, while the upper 20% of earners have seen their incomes soar. Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be interesting. i know you're in OZ, but do you know if it's difficult for Americans to emigrate to NZ (or OZ, as well)? lee eyeing 709 hectacres in NZ) Dunno about EnZed. In Oz you are in if you bring either lots of $$$ or a vocational skill in demand. You are out if you are in poor health (we have approximately universal health care) or otherwise likely to be a drag on the public purse. Unless you are a refugee: do you come from a war zone or are you about to be garroted by a masked squad in the night? As for 700 hectares it's available in many places. You can get it for a reasonable price if you don't mind that it is mostly bush or the rainfall is rather low or a long way from anywhere, or all of the above. If you want good soil and water you will pay big bickies. If you want good soil and water near civilisation you will pay very big bickies. David |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote: Unless you are a refugee: do you come from a war zone or are you about to be garroted by a masked squad in the night? Not so much recently. We have a young smiley face on fascism now, and a new PR team, but things could change. Used to be Oz was deferential to teachers on immigration. Is that still true? Lee, you must have seen http://www.realestate.co.nz/rural/se...=2000000&min_p rice=0&max_price=99000000 Hmmmmm, hmmm, hmm )) -- - Billy There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Will Rogers http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
Billy wrote in
t.au: Lee, you must have seen http://www.realestate.co.nz/rural/se...rea_sq_m=20000 00&min_p rice=0&max_price=99000000 Hmmmmm, hmmm, hmm )) no, i hadn't! thanks! lee |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message ... "Billy" wrote in message The problem seems to be that the entire world aspires to the American life style, that was based on being the only major industrial country not in ruins after WWII. For a short time, we had the stay at home mom, whose family could live well on the husbands wages. That time is long gone, and real income for most Americans has remained flat for the last 30 years, while the upper 20% of earners have seen their incomes soar. Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be interesting. You don't need to wonder, we will still lead. ~25-28% is hardly all. Beside what are they going to do, repossess us? Its not like we sold out our mining companies to em. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
In article ss,
"gunner" wrote: Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be interesting. You don't need to wonder, we will still lead. ~25-28% is hardly all. Beside what are they going to do, repossess us? Its not like we sold out our mining companies to em. You see gunner, this is what worries me. You don't have a freakin' idea as to what is going on. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/bu...ss/28mine.html Australia Blocks Chinašs Purchase of Mining Company And most of our $4TRILLION debt was racked up under President Monkey Smirk, in order to give us guns and butter, in the short term, while he pushed his "vanity wars". -- - Billy There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Will Rogers http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
Billy wrote:
In article , "David Hare-Scott" wrote: Unless you are a refugee: do you come from a war zone or are you about to be garroted by a masked squad in the night? Not so much recently. We have a young smiley face on fascism now, and a new PR team, but things could change. Used to be Oz was deferential to teachers on immigration. Is that still true? These things go in cycles, sometimes it's teachers, sometimes, doctors, it could be plumbers this month, whatever the Powers forgot to train 5 years ago. David |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
"Billy" wrote in message ... In article ss, "gunner" wrote: Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be interesting. You don't need to wonder, we will still lead. ~25-28% is hardly all. Beside what are they going to do, repossess us? Its not like we sold out our mining companies to em. You see gunner, this is what worries me. You don't have a freakin' idea as to what is going on. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/bu...ss/28mine.html Australia Blocks Chinašs Purchase of Mining Company And most of our $4TRILLION debt was racked up under President Monkey Smirk, in order to give us guns and butter, in the short term, while he pushed his "vanity wars". Still asleep at the wheel Billy? as in most of your posts, you invariably fail to read through your "cites" as well as skip over a lot of facts. Finish readin the entire news article you posted before you stupidly pop off again. Where you went to school is ~25 % considered all ? President Monkey Smirk? As always what has that diversionary BS have to do with your misunderstanding of facts. $4 trillion? you are sooo underestimating, try closer to $11 T. there slick You have the right to to use facts, Billy, you do not have the right to make them up! her are some crib notes for ya, but remember to verify them they are Jan 2009, at least their not in your old time zone of 1909. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt People's Republic of China 739.6 24.07% Japan 634.8 20.66% Oil exporters 186.3 6.06% Caribbean banking centers 176.6 5.75% Brazil 133.5 4.35% United Kingdom 124.2 4.04% Russia 119.6 3.89% Luxembourg 87.2 2.84% |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Need to grow your own manure?
In article ,
"gunner" wrote: "Billy" wrote in message ... In article ss, "gunner" wrote: Wonder how the US will survive the current crisis given that China now owns nearly all American debt. The next few years could be interesting. You don't need to wonder, we will still lead. ~25-28% is hardly all. Beside what are they going to do, repossess us? Its not like we sold out our mining companies to em. You see gunner, this is what worries me. You don't have a freakin' idea as to what is going on. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/28/bu...ss/28mine.html Australia Blocks Chinašs Purchase of Mining Company So you agree that Australia isn't selling it's mining interests to the Chinese. Glad you came to your senses. Not that it is the Chinese's fault that everybody and his mother's brother has picked China to be the manufacturer to the world. If we want them to make stuff cheaply that we can buy at Wally World (Walmart), then they need raw materials. That should be obvious even to a blundering blockhead like you. And most of our $4TRILLION debt was racked up under President Monkey Smirk, in order to give us guns and butter, in the short term, while he pushed his "vanity wars". Still asleep at the wheel Billy? as in most of your posts, you invariably fail to read through your "cites" as well as skip over a lot of facts. Finish readin the entire news article you posted before you stupidly pop off again. I'm sorry, were these the ones on pesticides? Where you went to school is ~25 % considered all ? Now you are referring to FarmI's fair characterization of US debt. President Monkey Smirk? As always what has that diversionary BS have to do with your misunderstanding of facts. Pictures are worth a thousand words. See Monkey Smirk. http://tinypic.com/1r509n5u $4 trillion? you are sooo underestimating, try closer to $11 T. there slick Gunneria, don't call me slick. You're right. I shouldn't have used the numbers that YOU provided. You have the right to to use facts, Billy, you do not have the right to make them up! her are some crib notes for ya, but remember to verify them they are Jan 2009, at least their not in your old time zone of 1909. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt People's Republic of China 739.6 24.07% Japan 634.8 20.66% Oil exporters 186.3 6.06% Caribbean banking centers 176.6 5.75% Brazil 133.5 4.35% United Kingdom 124.2 4.04% Russia 119.6 3.89% Luxembourg 87.2 2.84% It's interesting to note how under the former party of fiscal responsibility (GOP) US debt has skyrocketed since Raygun, with only a brief correction during the Clinton years, and then it was back to "borrow and spend" as usual, transferring the wealth to the rich. Wonder what we could do with the savings from canceling the privatization of government functions (which in private hands need a profit) and only spending a quarter of the world investment in weapons, instead of the 50% that we do now. Otherwise: US Military Budget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar..._United_States US Public Debt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt Wealth in the United States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_..._United_States US Household income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househo..._United_States Ex-Asst. Treasury Sec. Paul Craig Roberts on Wall St. Bailout: "Has Deregulation Sired Fascism?" http://www.democracynow.org/ The New Kleptocracy http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle21041.htm You do bring a lot of manure to the group, Gunneria, but it isn't in a useful form. I think you would be happier over in tx.guns. In any event, this is a gardening group, so **** off. We're done here. -- - Billy There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Will Rogers http://green-house.tv/video/the-spring-garden-tour http://www.tomdispatch.com/p/zinn |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|