In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

I've found a few glitches in Gaia's Garden, like using a circular
sprinkler to water a keyhole bed containing tomatoes, to name one. For
immediate use, it sounds as if the web site is advocating adding green
material (fall leaves, grass clippings) to the wood (log, limbs, twigs)
which will contain some nitrogen. They also advocate manure in place of
the green material. The book talks of using grass as well, but also
suggest straw, and sod (from sod I know nothing). Brown materials won't
contain nitrogen, but according to Gaia's Garden the hugelkulture
releases heat and moisture which encourages growth.
If I were doing this, I would use manure with the wood and, at a
minimum, the equivalent of 18 lbs of chicken manure/ 100 sq. ft..
Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit Sheep
N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4 .70
P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4 .30
K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60 .90

As I mentioned to "The Cook" earlier,"In terms of both its physical and
chemical properties, wood is an exceptionally difficult substrate to
degrade. One of the principal reasons is that wood contains very low
levels of nitrogen, which is needed to produce the enzymes that degrade
the main structural polmers of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry
weight of wood), hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%)."
http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...Biology/woodro
ts.htm

Here we have contradictory statements for Hugelkultur (green and brown
amendments). We are told that composting wood is good for heat and
humidity. We know that fungi need nitrogen to break down the wood. I
would stay away from adding more brown material to the wood.

Otherwise, it sounds OK for potatoes, berries, and melons, but squash
require high inputs of nitrogen. If growing squash, I would add organic
fish emulsion twice a month, until flowering (then no further nitrogen),
to insure nitrogen levels are sufficient.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

I've found a few glitches in Gaia's Garden, like using a circular
sprinkler to water a keyhole bed containing tomatoes, to name one. For

The book is interesting. I like the garden design ideas. Garden
techniques I am not so sure. I am not sure if Amazon.com is a curse or
blessing More in common than shoes

immediate use, it sounds as if the web site is advocating adding green
material (fall leaves, grass clippings) to the wood (log, limbs, twigs)
which will contain some nitrogen. They also advocate manure in place of
the green material. The book talks of using grass as well, but also
suggest straw, and sod (from sod I know nothing). Brown materials won't
contain nitrogen, but according to Gaia's Garden the hugelkulture
releases heat and moisture which encourages growth.
If I were doing this, I would use manure with the wood and, at a
minimum, the equivalent of 18 lbs of chicken manure/ 100 sq. ft..
Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit Sheep

N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4 .70

P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4 .30

K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60 .90

As I mentioned to "The Cook" earlier,"In terms of both its physical and
chemical properties, wood is an exceptionally difficult substrate to
degrade. One of the principal reasons is that wood contains very low
levels of nitrogen, which is needed to produce the enzymes that degrade
the main structural polmers of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry
weight of wood), hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%)."
http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...Biology/woodro
ts.htm

Here we have contradictory statements for Hugelkultur (green and brown
amendments). We are told that composting wood is good for heat and
humidity. We know that fungi need nitrogen to break down the wood. I
would stay away from adding more brown material to the wood.

Sounds like this could be a good way to jump start a garden in cold
Michigan. I would just need a row cover on those late frost dates.
Chemistry and Biology was not on my candy store list. A weakness on my
part.

I have lots of grass and chicken poop mixed in with the straw. Hen House
thing. So adding Manure with straw to the wood might be a mixed blessing.

Otherwise, it sounds OK for potatoes, berries, and melons, but squash
require high inputs of nitrogen. If growing squash, I would add organic
fish emulsion twice a month, until flowering (then no further nitrogen),
to insure nitrogen levels are sufficient.

I only plant ONE squash plant and thats it, all that is needed.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose
and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well
know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...Biology/woodro
t
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

I've found a few glitches in Gaia's Garden, like using a circular
sprinkler to water a keyhole bed containing tomatoes, to name one. For

The book is interesting. I like the garden design ideas. Garden
techniques I am not so sure. I am not sure if Amazon.com is a curse or
blessing More in common than shoes

immediate use, it sounds as if the web site is advocating adding green
material (fall leaves, grass clippings) to the wood (log, limbs, twigs)
which will contain some nitrogen. They also advocate manure in place of
the green material. The book talks of using grass as well, but also
suggest straw, and sod (from sod I know nothing). Brown materials won't
contain nitrogen, but according to Gaia's Garden the hugelkulture
releases heat and moisture which encourages growth.
If I were doing this, I would use manure with the wood and, at a
minimum, the equivalent of 18 lbs of chicken manure/ 100 sq. ft..
Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit Sheep


N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4 .70


P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4 .30


K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60 .90

As I mentioned to "The Cook" earlier,"In terms of both its physical and
chemical properties, wood is an exceptionally difficult substrate to
degrade. One of the principal reasons is that wood contains very low
levels of nitrogen, which is needed to produce the enzymes that degrade
the main structural polmers of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry
weight of wood), hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%)."
http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...Biology/woodro
ts.htm

Here we have contradictory statements for Hugelkultur (green and brown
amendments). We are told that composting wood is good for heat and
humidity. We know that fungi need nitrogen to break down the wood. I
would stay away from adding more brown material to the wood.

Sounds like this could be a good way to jump start a garden in cold
Michigan. I would just need a row cover on those late frost dates.
Chemistry and Biology was not on my candy store list. A weakness on my
part.

I have lots of grass and chicken poop mixed in with the straw. Hen House
thing. So adding Manure with straw to the wood might be a mixed blessing.

Otherwise, it sounds OK for potatoes, berries, and melons, but squash
require high inputs of nitrogen. If growing squash, I would add organic
fish emulsion twice a month, until flowering (then no further nitrogen),
to insure nitrogen levels are sufficient.

I only plant ONE squash plant and thats it, all that is needed.

Compost formula = 2(30 parts brown/1 part green)+ 1(manure)

Ex. 18 lbs (twigs, branches, dried leaves) + 2 lbs (grass clippings,
pulled weeds, plant trimmings) + 10 lbs manure (no specific type
mentioned).
Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides) (Paperback) by Stu Campbell
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158..._p14_i1?pf_rd_
m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1HT31JNNBYN5BXFZS2EA&pf_rd_t=101
&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen
in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural
polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose
and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the
heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well
know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins
resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most
toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in
cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...alBiology/wood
ro
t
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth,
it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

I've found a few glitches in Gaia's Garden, like using a circular
sprinkler to water a keyhole bed containing tomatoes, to name one. For

The book is interesting. I like the garden design ideas. Garden
techniques I am not so sure. I am not sure if Amazon.com is a curse or
blessing More in common than shoes

immediate use, it sounds as if the web site is advocating adding green
material (fall leaves, grass clippings) to the wood (log, limbs, twigs)
which will contain some nitrogen. They also advocate manure in place of
the green material. The book talks of using grass as well, but also
suggest straw, and sod (from sod I know nothing). Brown materials won't
contain nitrogen, but according to Gaia's Garden the hugelkulture
releases heat and moisture which encourages growth.
If I were doing this, I would use manure with the wood and, at a
minimum, the equivalent of 18 lbs of chicken manure/ 100 sq. ft..
Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit Sheep



N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4 .70



P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4 .30



K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60 .90

As I mentioned to "The Cook" earlier,"In terms of both its physical and
chemical properties, wood is an exceptionally difficult substrate to
degrade. One of the principal reasons is that wood contains very low
levels of nitrogen, which is needed to produce the enzymes that degrade
the main structural polmers of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry
weight of wood), hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%)."
http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...Biology/woodro
ts.htm

Here we have contradictory statements for Hugelkultur (green and brown
amendments). We are told that composting wood is good for heat and
humidity. We know that fungi need nitrogen to break down the wood. I
would stay away from adding more brown material to the wood.

Sounds like this could be a good way to jump start a garden in cold
Michigan. I would just need a row cover on those late frost dates.
Chemistry and Biology was not on my candy store list. A weakness on my
part.

I have lots of grass and chicken poop mixed in with the straw. Hen House
thing. So adding Manure with straw to the wood might be a mixed blessing.

Otherwise, it sounds OK for potatoes, berries, and melons, but squash
require high inputs of nitrogen. If growing squash, I would add organic
fish emulsion twice a month, until flowering (then no further nitrogen),
to insure nitrogen levels are sufficient.

I only plant ONE squash plant and thats it, all that is needed.

Compost formula = 2(30 parts brown/1 part green)+ 1(manure)

BIG WHOOPS. Make that

Ex. 30 lbs (twigs, branches, dried leaves) + 1 lbs (grass clippings,
pulled weeds, plant trimmings) + 15.5 lbs manure (no specific type
mentioned).

Sorry about that :O)
Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides) (Paperback) by Stu Campbell
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158..._p14_i1?pf_rd_
m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1HT31JNNBYN5BXFZS2EA&pf_rd_t=101
&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

In article
,
Billy wrote:

Compost formula = 2(30 parts brown/1 part green)+ 1(manure)

BIG WHOOPS. Make that

Ex. 30 lbs (twigs, branches, dried leaves) + 1 lbs (grass clippings,
pulled weeds, plant trimmings) + 15.5 lbs manure (no specific type
mentioned).

Sorry about that :O)
Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides) (Paperback) by Stu Campbell
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158..._p14_i1?pf_rd_
m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1HT31JNNBYN5BXFZS2EA&pf_rd_t=101
&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

Amazon is definitely a curse. I just have the "The Rodale Book of
Composting: Easy Methods for Every Gardener" 1992. An old outdated book,
has nothing on handling wood. "Let it Rot!' is on order

One headache is Rose Bush trimmings, A real pain in the ...
In past I just simply buried them in the ground. I see I should have
buried them with other compost materials.

I used to think Roses were cool and part of all nice gardens. Now in my
old age I hate the things. I now think there ugly. Not even worth
putting in a vase. Years ago I had dozens of them. Now down to four
bushes and tempted to rip them out.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

"Dan L." wrote in message

Permaculture by Toby Hemenway"

Now that name is a blast from the past. He used to post in the
alt.permaculture newsgroup many moons ago.

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Dan L." wrote in message

Permaculture by Toby Hemenway"

Now that name is a blast from the past. He used to post in the
alt.permaculture newsgroup many moons ago.

He probably got rich from your postings

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

"Dan L." wrote in message
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Dan L." wrote in message

Permaculture by Toby Hemenway"

Now that name is a blast from the past. He used to post in the
alt.permaculture newsgroup many moons ago.

He probably got rich from your postings

LOL. Well I did find one of my posts repeated in full (with no attribution)
on a commercial site.

"Dan L." wrote in message
...
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.


19th century market gardeners near Paris used a very similar technique.
Adding enough manure or green material to the wood created a hot compost
pile underneath the soil. This allowed earlier planting and much higher
prices for the early veggies.
Steve

In article ,
"Steve Peek" wrote:

"Dan L." wrote in message
...
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.


19th century market gardeners near Paris used a very similar technique.
Adding enough manure or green material to the wood created a hot compost
pile underneath the soil. This allowed earlier planting and much higher
prices for the early veggies.
Steve

What was old then is now new again

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article
,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article ,
"Steve Peek" wrote:

"Dan L." wrote in message
...
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
The Cook wrote:

I seem to remember that wood as it decomposes uses up the nitrogen in
the soil. Not really good for the garden. Old wives tale or true?

In terms of both its physical and chemical properties, wood is an
exceptionally difficult substrate to degrade. One of the principal
reasons is that wood contains very low levels of nitrogen, which is
needed to produce the enzymes that degrade the main structural polmers
of wood - cellulose (about 40-50% of the dry weight of wood),
hemicelluloses (25-40%) and lignin (20-35%).

The lignin component also presents a barrier to wood decay because
lignin is a complex aromatic polymer that encrusts the cell walls,
preventing access of enzymes to the more easily degradable cellulose and
hemicelluloses. In addition to these points, wood often contains
potentially fungitoxic compounds, which are deposited in the heartwood.
In broad-leaved trees the toxic compounds are usually tannins, well know
for their ability to cross-link proteins, making animal skins resistant
to decay. In contrast, conifers contain a range of phenolic compounds
such as terpenes, stilbenes, flavonoids and tropolones. The most toxic
of the tropolones are the thujaplicins which act as uncouplers of
oxidative phosphorylation; they are particularly abundant in cedarwood,
making this a naturally decay-resistant wood for high-quality garden
furnishings, etc.


http://www.biology.ed.ac.uk/research...iology/woodrot
s.htm

When the nitrogen is no longer needed for enzymes or fungal growth, it
is released back into the soil environment for use by other microbes,
and plants.

So I have a follow up question to that very interesting question!
Is it Ok to BURY freshly cut wood, logs and chips, under the vegetable
garden soil? Your opinions do count. Lots of great advice here.

I have this book, "Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale
Permaculture by Toby Hemenway" ISBN-10: 1603580298. On page 84, "Woody
Ways to build soil" Its called "Hugelkultur". That freshly cut wood can
be instantly used in vegetable gardens. The buried slowly rotting wood
feeds the plants and improves the soil.

One link about this:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Hugelkultur-...-in-Composting

I am not sure if this is sound advice or not.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.


19th century market gardeners near Paris used a very similar technique.
Adding enough manure or green material to the wood created a hot compost
pile underneath the soil. This allowed earlier planting and much higher
prices for the early veggies.
Steve

What was old then is now new again

Right down to putting cloches over the plants. We forgot a lot with the
"green revolution".
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html

In article
,
Billy wrote:

cloches

http://www.antiques-atlas.com/antiqu..._cloches/as070
a185

--
Bill Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

cloches

http://www.antiques-atlas.com/antiqu..._cloches/as070
a185

Good picture, thanks.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/HZinn_page.html