I'm new here , and I've been reading and catching up a bit on the group .
I'm in Memphis Tn , and after last year I'm tripling the size of my little
garden plot . Had too much in too little room last year .
I've tilled up some lawn , and added a 3-4" layer of "pro mix" compost
from my local nursery . I'll be tilling that in as soon as my tiller part
arrives ... but until then , I just went out and turned/mixed by hand the
plot from last year (same 4" layer of compost ). I must be doing something
right , I found worms as big as my little finger and 6" long in there . The
wife thinks (and she's right) that it's time I get some lettuce and spinach
in the ground . I think I'll plant a couple of rows of green onions too ...
I also planted tomatoes (slicers and cherry) , marigolds , and peppers
into some peat pods today . Hopefully this year I'll get better yield on the
'maters , last year wasn't exactly stellar - probably because of
overcrowding and not enough fertilizer . I'll be adding some slow-release
veggie fertilizer to the soil when I till the compost in , especially where
I tilled up grass .
What I won't be doing is using any chemical pesticides . I've had pretty
good luck with using a border of marigolds plus spraying with a tea solution
made from red peppers .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

In article ,
"Snag" wrote:

I'm new here , and I've been reading and catching up a bit on the group .
I'm in Memphis Tn , and after last year I'm tripling the size of my little
garden plot . Had too much in too little room last year .
I've tilled up some lawn , and added a 3-4" layer of "pro mix" compost
from my local nursery . I'll be tilling that in as soon as my tiller part
arrives ... but until then , I just went out and turned/mixed by hand the
plot from last year (same 4" layer of compost ). I must be doing something
right , I found worms as big as my little finger and 6" long in there .

Using a roto-tiller will turn the worms into hamburger. That may be a
short time benefit, but a long term loss.

Roto-tilling destroys the network of fungal hyphae that gives soil
structure. This includes the mychorrhizal network that is so important
to plants."

Mycorrhizal (MY-coh-RIZE-ul) fungi are multi-celled organisms that form
special "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine" relationships
with plant roots. As recent electron microscope images have shown, these
organisms develop into long chains called hyphae (HIGH-fee) and get
energy from the plant and help supply nutrients to the plant. In other
words, they depend on each other for survival.

Roto-tilling dislocates and chops up small invertebrate animals (such as
insects, worms and spiders), and bacteria, and it kills worms and
destroys aeration and drainage. "The soil looks nice and smooth, but it
quickly looses structure, especially in places where you get lots of
rain.

We till because early American's fell under the spell of an English
country lawyer, Jethro Tull, who thought that roots eat soil particles
and the smaller you pulverize soil, the easier it is for roots to eat it.

To grow healthy, productive plants you need healthy, productive soil. It
is the organisms in the soil that provide the food plants need, in the
form they need, when they need it.

There is one time when using a tiller is okay: when breaking up
sod-grass. Just do one pass to break up the sod. One pass only.
The less energy you can use when planting, the better. Control weeds
with mulches, in the case of annuals and vegetables, green mulches and
in the case of perennials, shrubs and trees, brown mulches."

The idea is to avoid compacting and deep-tilling the soil, which harms
the structure.

Roto-tilling is definitely, out. The only time it is acceptable is when
you want to plant vegetables and annuals in areas just claimed from
forests. You want to increase the bacterial dominance and rototilling
does that. The fungal structure will return if organic fertilizers are
used.

Supporting soil structure is just good science.

The
wife thinks (and she's right) that it's time I get some lettuce and spinach
in the ground . I think I'll plant a couple of rows of green onions too ...
I also planted tomatoes (slicers and cherry) , marigolds , and peppers
into some peat pods today . Hopefully this year I'll get better yield on the
'maters , last year wasn't exactly stellar - probably because of
overcrowding and not enough fertilizer . I'll be adding some slow-release
veggie fertilizer to the soil when I till the compost in , especially where
I tilled up grass .
What I won't be doing is using any chemical pesticides . I've had pretty
good luck with using a border of marigolds plus spraying with a tea solution
made from red peppers .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

You may want to look at Lasagna (No Dig) Gardening, a.k.a. Sheet
Mulching.

You're garden soil shouldn't be more than 10%, or less than 5% organic
material.

Garden soil should be 30% - 40% sand, 30% - 40% silt, and 20% - 30%
clay. You can check your soil by scraping away the organic material on
top of the ground and then take a vertical sample of your soil to 12 in.
(30 cm) deep (rectangular or circular hole). Mix this with water in an
appropriately large glass (transparent) jar. The sand will settle out
quickly, the silt in a couple of hours, and the clay within a day. The
depth of the layer in relationship to the total (layer/total = % of
composition) is the percent that fraction has in the soil.

Garden soil needs a constant input of nutrients, i.e. carbon, e.g. brown
leaves, and nitrogen, e.g. manure in a ratio of C/N of 25. This is the
same ratio you will what in a compost pile.
-----

Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides)
by Stu Campbell

http://www.amazon.com/Let-Rot-Compos...580170234/ref=
sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294901182&sr=1-1

p.39

Compostable Material Average C/N

Alder or ash leaves ............................ 25

Grass clippings ................................ 25

Leguminous plants (peas,
beans,soybeans) ............................. 15

Manure with bedding ........................... 23

Manure ....................................... 15

Oak leaves .................................... 50

Pine needles .............................. 60-100

Sawdust................................. 150-500

Straw, cornstalks and cobs .................. 50-100

Vegetable trimmings ........................... 25
Aged Chicken Manure**........................* 7
Alfalfa ................................................ 12
Newspaper........................................ 175
-----

http://www.composting101.com/c-n-ratio.html

A Balancing Act (Carbon-to-Nitrogen Ratios)


All organic matter is made up of substantial amounts of carbon (C)
combined with lesser amounts of nitrogen (N). The balance of these two
elements in an organism is called the carbon-to-nitrogen ratio (C:N
ratio). For best performance, the compost pile, or more to the point the
composting microorganisms, require the correct proportion of carbon for
energy and nitrogen for protein production. Scientists (yes, there are
compost scientists) have determined that the fastest way to produce
fertile, sweet-smelling compost is to maintain a C:N ratio somewhere
around 25 to 30 parts carbon to 1 part nitrogen, or 25-30:1. If the C:N
ratio is too high (excess carbon), decomposition slows down. If the C:N
ratio is too low (excess nitrogen) you will end up with a stinky pile.
(cont.)
------

No reason to till after the first preparation of the garden (no reason
to till the first/last time but it does speed up soil development).
Spread out your soil amendments:
€ N:
€ 18.37 lb. chicken manure/ 100 sq.ft. (2.88 oz/sq.ft.)
€
€ P:
€ 3 lb. / 100/sq.ft. (.48 oz/sq.ft.)
€
€ K:
€ How much wood ash should you use in your garden? The late Bernard
G. Wesenberg, a former Washington State University Extension
horticulturist, recommended using one gallon of ashes per square
yard on loam to clay-loam soil, and half as much on sandier soils.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
€ Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
€ N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
€ P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
€ K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60

€
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
€ N .70 3 5
€ P .30 1 1
€ K .90 2 1

€ Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
€ Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
€ N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
€ P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
€ K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60

€
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
€ N .70 3 5
€ P .30 1 1
€ K .90 2 1

€ Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.

Cover this with newspaper (to block light from weeds and provide a
barrier to sprouting weeds). Cover the newspaper with mulch (up to 6" in
depth). Spray the garden bed with water, and wait 6 weeks before
planting (if you can).

A dibble can help with planting. The dinky little ones from the nursery
may be of some help, but I prefer a sharpened, old, shovel handle for
making a hole through the mulch and paper for planting seedlings.

Adding drip lines takes a little time, but saves a lot of time during
the season.

Additional info:

http://www.diggers.com.au/articleWhatsNewIsOld.shtml
What's new is old
CLIVE BLAZEY EXPLAINS WHY HEIRLOOM SEEDS ARE SUPERIOR TO HYBRIDS AND
GENETICALLY ENGINEERED (GE) SEEDS.
-----

http://www.choiceinagriculture.com/a...d-business-rol
e-revealed

AP INVESTIGATION: Monsanto seed biz role revealed

By CHRISTOPHER LEONARD AP Agribusiness Writer © 2009 The Associated Press
Dec. 13, 2009, 11:54PM

ST. LOUIS ‹ Confidential contracts detailing Monsanto Co.'s business
practices reveal how the world's biggest seed developer is squeezing
competitors, controlling smaller seed companies and protecting its
dominance over the multibillion-dollar market for genetically altered
crops, an Associated Press investigation has found.
---

http://transitionculture.org/2009/02...re-essential-v
iewing/

#3
harvesting winter grass for cattle is the largest expenditure of fossil
fuel on this farm.
Winter grazing at a neighboring farm is possible because of the mix of
grasses, which make the grasses strong enough not to get dug up by cow
hooves.
Grasses don't require fossil fuel.
Grasses inspired by woodland grass that grew naturally, without
encouragement.
Woodland grass grew on soil with biological diversity.
Plowing killed soil organisms.
Fossil fuel allows more plowing, and provides chemferts.
Fossil fuel is used to grow crops in soil that is essentially dead.
When fossil fuel runs out, we will need living soil.
Cattle require a lot of land, and for Britain to become self sufficient,
people will need to eat less meat, and farmers will need to raise other
crops as well.
Introduction of permaculture and permaculture expert Patrick Whitefield.
Three ways of farming, drugery, fossil fuel, and design.

#4
Woodland are the most efficient growing system for the British climate.
Farming based on natural ecology. "What we got to do is take the
principals of this (the forest), and think how far we can bend them
towards something more edible."
- Patrick Whitefield
The demonstration farm is a collection of small clearings in a massive
woodland.
Chris & Lynn DIxon produce all the fruit, vegetables, meat, and the fuel
they need to cook them, in return for a few days work per week. When
they started, 20 years before, the farm was degraded, marginal, pasture
land. The first thing that they did was let the land return to its
natural state, a chaotic woodland, but in its present state, the chaos
is very highly structured.
The gorse fixes nitrogen, the bracken collecting pot ash, and by
encouraging the birds, they are encouraging the phosphate cycle through
the system. Thus no need for sacks of fossil fuel fertilizers, it's all
provided by nature. Carkey Campbell (sp?)ducks provide insect
protection.
All the plants provides some service.
Willow Leyland Ash (tree) branches are fed to horses, cattle, and sheep.
Using the full height of trees and hedges, you can squeeze higher yields
out of the same piece of land. Plants not producing crops are recycling
nutrient. Cannon (?) Alder supplies nitrogen through its leaf litter
;O), root system

#5
and by beneficial fungi that link up everything under the ground, and
move nutrients around. All the plants are there for a reason, or
multiple reasons. Plants that attract beneficial insects do away with
the need for pesticides. The garden requires, over the year, a day a
week of work, but a lot of that is harvesting. Maintenance is 10
days/year. Yields from a forest garden (a low energy, low maintenance
system) should be able to feed 10 people/acre, which is double the
amount of people that contemporary farming can feed. What you can't
grow is cereal crops, which can be replaced by nut crops, which are more
sustainable. Orchards require less energy than a field of wheat.
Nutrient composition of chestnuts is similar to that of rice.
--

Gardening with hand tools is more productive and energy efficient than
farming. It's the attention to detail that an experienced gardener can
give to a small plot that makes it so productive. They can provide up to
5 times more food per sq. meter, than a large farm.

Modern farming and distribution methods are unlikely to survive the
increasing costs of petroleum. The modern demographic change of the 21st
Century will be re-ruralization. Proportion of people involved in food
production will increase.

The above remarks come from Martin Crawford, Patrick Whitefield, and
Chris Dixon. See site below.


http://transitionculture.org/2009/02...ure-essential-
viewing/

http://www.shade-growing.com/permacu...uture-transcri
pt

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5241
-----

As Charlie Underlog often recites,"There are no gardening mistakes, only
experiments." -- Janet Kilburn Phillips.

A damn good observation that
seems to have become a cottage industry with everyone quoting it, but
Ms. Phillips seems to be unfamiliar with chemical fertilizers.

Real gardeners grow soil as well as plants. Jobes tomato spikes and
Miracle Grow aren't healthy for your soil and they are a MISTAKE. It's
cheaper and more eco-friendly to get ORGANIC fish emulsion (the seas
have been polluted too: copper, lead, mercury, arsenic, PCBs, and PBDEs)
or manure for your plants. You don't even have to dig it in. Just cover
amendments with newspaper as described above, just below the ratings for
manure, or sprinkle it around your plants as a side dressing (18 lb/100
sq.ft., chicken manure). Don't water again until the top inch of the
soil is dry. Over feeding will encourage the plant to vegetate, instead
of setting and maturing fruit.

http://www99.epinions.com/review/Job...or_Tomatoes/co
ntent_40683146884

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Fertilize...fertilizer-Mir
acle.htm
------

p.2

Most gardeners think of plants as only taking up nutrients through root
systems and feeding the leaves. Few realize that a great deal of the
energy that results from photosynthesis in the leaves is actually used
by plants to produce

chemicals they secrete through their roots. These secretions are known
as exudates. A good analogy is perspiration, a human's exudate.
Root exudates are in the form of carbohydrates (including sugars) and
proteins. Amazingly, their presence wakes up, attracts, and grows
specific beneficial bacteria and fungi living in the soil that subsist
on these exudates and the_ cellular material sloughed off as the plant's
root tips grow. All this secretion of_ exudates and sloughing-off of
cells takes place in the rhizosphere, a zone immediately around the
roots, extending out about a tenth of an inch, or a couple of
millimeters (1 millimeter = 1/25 inch). The rhizosphere, which can
look_ like a jelly or jam under the electron microscope, contains a
constantly changing mix of soil organisms, including bacteria, fungi,
nematodes, protozoa, and_ even larger organisms. All this "life"
competes for the exudates in the rhizosphere, or its water or mineral
content.

At the bottom of the soil food web are bacteria and fungi, which are
attracted to and consume plant root exudates. In turn, they attract and
are eaten _by bigger microbes, specifically nematodes and protozoa
(remember the _amoebae, paramecia, flagellates, and ciliates you should
have studied in biology?), who eat bacteria and fungi (primarily for
carbon) to fuel their metabolic_ functions. Anything they don't need is
excreted as wastes, which plant roots are _readily able to absorb as
nutrients. How convenient that this production of_ plant nutrients takes
place right in the rhizosphere, the site of root-nutrient_ absorption.
At the center of any viable soil food web are plants. Plants control the
food_ web for their own benefit, an amazing fact that is too little
understood and_ surely not appreciated by gardeners who are constantly
interfering with Nature's system. Studies indicate that individual
plants can control the numbers_ and the different kinds of fungi and
bacteria attracted to the rhizosphere by the exudates they produce.
During different times of the growing season, populations of rhizosphere
bacteria and fungi wax and wane, depending on the nutrient needs of the
plant and the exudates it produces.

Soil bacteria and fungi are like small bags of fertilizer, retaining in
their_ bodies nitrogen and other nutrients they gain from root exudates
and other _organic matter (such as those sloughed-off root-tip cells).
Carrying on the _analogy, soil protozoa and nematodes act as "fertilizer
spreaders" by releasing ,_the nutrients locked up in the bacteria and
fungi "fertilizer bags." The nematodes and protozoa in the soil come
along and eat the bacteria and fungi in the,_ rhizosphere. They digest
what they need to survive and excrete excess carbon_ and other nutrients
as waste.

Left to their own devices, then, plants produce exudates that attract
fungi_ and bacteria (and, ultimately, nematodes and protozoa); their
survival depends on the interplay between these microbes. It is a
completely natural system, the very same one that has fueled plants
since they evolved. Soil life provides the nutrients needed for plant
life, and plants initiate and fuel the cycle_ by producing exudates.

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1

"Gardening adds years to your life and life to your years." - Anon

===
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
"Snag" wrote:

I'm new here , and I've been reading and catching up a bit on the group .
I'm in Memphis Tn , and after last year I'm tripling the size of my little
garden plot . Had too much in too little room last year .
I've tilled up some lawn , and added a 3-4" layer of "pro mix" compost
from my local nursery . I'll be tilling that in as soon as my tiller part
arrives ... but until then , I just went out and turned/mixed by hand the
plot from last year (same 4" layer of compost ). I must be doing something
right , I found worms as big as my little finger and 6" long in there .

Using a roto-tiller will turn the worms into hamburger. That may be a
short time benefit, but a long term loss.

Roto-tilling destroys the network of fungal hyphae that gives soil
structure. This includes the mychorrhizal network that is so important
to plants."

Mycorrhizal (MY-coh-RIZE-ul) fungi are multi-celled organisms that form
special "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine" relationships
with plant roots. As recent electron microscope images have shown, these
organisms develop into long chains called hyphae (HIGH-fee) and get
energy from the plant and help supply nutrients to the plant. In other
words, they depend on each other for survival.

Roto-tilling dislocates and chops up small invertebrate animals (such as
insects, worms and spiders), and bacteria, and it kills worms and
destroys aeration and drainage. "The soil looks nice and smooth, but it
quickly looses structure, especially in places where you get lots of
rain.

We till because early American's fell under the spell of an English
country lawyer, Jethro Tull, who thought that roots eat soil particles
and the smaller you pulverize soil, the easier it is for roots to eat it.

To grow healthy, productive plants you need healthy, productive soil. It
is the organisms in the soil that provide the food plants need, in the
form they need, when they need it.

There is one time when using a tiller is okay: when breaking up
sod-grass. Just do one pass to break up the sod. One pass only.
The less energy you can use when planting, the better. Control weeds
with mulches, in the case of annuals and vegetables, green mulches and
in the case of perennials, shrubs and trees, brown mulches."

The idea is to avoid compacting and deep-tilling the soil, which harms
the structure.

Roto-tilling is definitely, out. The only time it is acceptable is when
you want to plant vegetables and annuals in areas just claimed from
forests. You want to increase the bacterial dominance and rototilling
does that. The fungal structure will return if organic fertilizers are
used.

Supporting soil structure is just good science.

The
wife thinks (and she's right) that it's time I get some lettuce and spinach
in the ground . I think I'll plant a couple of rows of green onions too ...
I also planted tomatoes (slicers and cherry) , marigolds , and peppers
into some peat pods today . Hopefully this year I'll get better yield on
the
'maters , last year wasn't exactly stellar - probably because of
overcrowding and not enough fertilizer . I'll be adding some slow-release
veggie fertilizer to the soil when I till the compost in , especially where
I tilled up grass .
What I won't be doing is using any chemical pesticides . I've had pretty
good luck with using a border of marigolds plus spraying with a tea
solution
made from red peppers .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

You may want to look at Lasagna (No Dig) Gardening, a.k.a. Sheet
Mulching.

You're garden soil shouldn't be more than 10%, or less than 5% organic
material.

Garden soil should be 30% - 40% sand, 30% - 40% silt, and 20% - 30%
clay. You can check your soil by scraping away the organic material on
top of the ground and then take a vertical sample of your soil to 12 in.
(30 cm) deep (rectangular or circular hole). Mix this with water in an
appropriately large glass (transparent) jar. The sand will settle out
quickly, the silt in a couple of hours, and the clay within a day. The
depth of the layer in relationship to the total (layer/total = % of
composition) is the percent that fraction has in the soil.

Garden soil needs a constant input of nutrients, i.e. carbon, e.g. brown
leaves, and nitrogen, e.g. manure in a ratio of C/N of 25. This is the
same ratio you will what in a compost pile.
-----

Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides)
by Stu Campbell

http://www.amazon.com/Let-Rot-Compos...580170234/ref=
sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294901182&sr=1-1

p.39

Compostable Material Average C/N

Alder or ash leaves ............................ 25

Grass clippings ................................ 25

Leguminous plants (peas,
beans,soybeans) ............................. 15

Manure with bedding ........................... 23

Manure ....................................... 15

Oak leaves .................................... 50

Pine needles .............................. 60-100

Sawdust................................. 150-500

Straw, cornstalks and cobs .................. 50-100

Vegetable trimmings ........................... 25
Aged Chicken Manure**........................* 7
Alfalfa ................................................ 12
Newspaper........................................ 175
-----

http://www.composting101.com/c-n-ratio.html

A Balancing Act (Carbon-to-Nitrogen Ratios)


All organic matter is made up of substantial amounts of carbon (C)
combined with lesser amounts of nitrogen (N). The balance of these two
elements in an organism is called the carbon-to-nitrogen ratio (C:N
ratio). For best performance, the compost pile, or more to the point the
composting microorganisms, require the correct proportion of carbon for
energy and nitrogen for protein production. Scientists (yes, there are
compost scientists) have determined that the fastest way to produce
fertile, sweet-smelling compost is to maintain a C:N ratio somewhere
around 25 to 30 parts carbon to 1 part nitrogen, or 25-30:1. If the C:N
ratio is too high (excess carbon), decomposition slows down. If the C:N
ratio is too low (excess nitrogen) you will end up with a stinky pile.
(cont.)
------

No reason to till after the first preparation of the garden (no reason
to till the first/last time but it does speed up soil development).
Spread out your soil amendments:
€ N:
€ 18.37 lb. chicken manure/ 100 sq.ft. (2.88 oz/sq.ft.)
€
€ P:
€ 3 lb. / 100/sq.ft. (.48 oz/sq.ft.)
€
€ K:
€ How much wood ash should you use in your garden? The late Bernard
G. Wesenberg, a former Washington State University Extension
horticulturist, recommended using one gallon of ashes per square
yard on loam to clay-loam soil, and half as much on sandier soils.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
€ Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
€ N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
€ P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
€ K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60


€
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
€ N .70 3 5
€ P .30 1 1
€ K .90 2 1

€ Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
€ Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
€ N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
€ P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
€ K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60


€
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
€ N .70 3 5
€ P .30 1 1
€ K .90 2 1

€ Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.

Cover this with newspaper (to block light from weeds and provide a
barrier to sprouting weeds). Cover the newspaper with mulch (up to 6" in
depth). Spray the garden bed with water, and wait 6 weeks before
planting (if you can).

A dibble can help with planting. The dinky little ones from the nursery
may be of some help, but I prefer a sharpened, old, shovel handle for
making a hole through the mulch and paper for planting seedlings.

Adding drip lines takes a little time, but saves a lot of time during
the season.

Additional info:

http://www.diggers.com.au/articleWhatsNewIsOld.shtml
What's new is old
CLIVE BLAZEY EXPLAINS WHY HEIRLOOM SEEDS ARE SUPERIOR TO HYBRIDS AND
GENETICALLY ENGINEERED (GE) SEEDS.
-----

http://www.choiceinagriculture.com/a...d-business-rol
e-revealed

AP INVESTIGATION: Monsanto seed biz role revealed

By CHRISTOPHER LEONARD AP Agribusiness Writer © 2009 The Associated Press
Dec. 13, 2009, 11:54PM

ST. LOUIS ‹ Confidential contracts detailing Monsanto Co.'s business
practices reveal how the world's biggest seed developer is squeezing
competitors, controlling smaller seed companies and protecting its
dominance over the multibillion-dollar market for genetically altered
crops, an Associated Press investigation has found.
---

http://transitionculture.org/2009/02...re-essential-v
iewing/

#3
harvesting winter grass for cattle is the largest expenditure of fossil
fuel on this farm.
Winter grazing at a neighboring farm is possible because of the mix of
grasses, which make the grasses strong enough not to get dug up by cow
hooves.
Grasses don't require fossil fuel.
Grasses inspired by woodland grass that grew naturally, without
encouragement.
Woodland grass grew on soil with biological diversity.
Plowing killed soil organisms.
Fossil fuel allows more plowing, and provides chemferts.
Fossil fuel is used to grow crops in soil that is essentially dead.
When fossil fuel runs out, we will need living soil.
Cattle require a lot of land, and for Britain to become self sufficient,
people will need to eat less meat, and farmers will need to raise other
crops as well.
Introduction of permaculture and permaculture expert Patrick Whitefield.
Three ways of farming, drugery, fossil fuel, and design.

#4
Woodland are the most efficient growing system for the British climate.
Farming based on natural ecology. "What we got to do is take the
principals of this (the forest), and think how far we can bend them
towards something more edible."
- Patrick Whitefield
The demonstration farm is a collection of small clearings in a massive
woodland.
Chris & Lynn DIxon produce all the fruit, vegetables, meat, and the fuel
they need to cook them, in return for a few days work per week. When
they started, 20 years before, the farm was degraded, marginal, pasture
land. The first thing that they did was let the land return to its
natural state, a chaotic woodland, but in its present state, the chaos
is very highly structured.
The gorse fixes nitrogen, the bracken collecting pot ash, and by
encouraging the birds, they are encouraging the phosphate cycle through
the system. Thus no need for sacks of fossil fuel fertilizers, it's all
provided by nature. Carkey Campbell (sp?)ducks provide insect
protection.
All the plants provides some service.
Willow Leyland Ash (tree) branches are fed to horses, cattle, and sheep.
Using the full height of trees and hedges, you can squeeze higher yields
out of the same piece of land. Plants not producing crops are recycling
nutrient. Cannon (?) Alder supplies nitrogen through its leaf litter
;O), root system

#5
and by beneficial fungi that link up everything under the ground, and
move nutrients around. All the plants are there for a reason, or
multiple reasons. Plants that attract beneficial insects do away with
the need for pesticides. The garden requires, over the year, a day a
week of work, but a lot of that is harvesting. Maintenance is 10
days/year. Yields from a forest garden (a low energy, low maintenance
system) should be able to feed 10 people/acre, which is double the
amount of people that contemporary farming can feed. What you can't
grow is cereal crops, which can be replaced by nut crops, which are more
sustainable. Orchards require less energy than a field of wheat.
Nutrient composition of chestnuts is similar to that of rice.
--

Gardening with hand tools is more productive and energy efficient than
farming. It's the attention to detail that an experienced gardener can
give to a small plot that makes it so productive. They can provide up to
5 times more food per sq. meter, than a large farm.

Modern farming and distribution methods are unlikely to survive the
increasing costs of petroleum. The modern demographic change of the 21st
Century will be re-ruralization. Proportion of people involved in food
production will increase.

The above remarks come from Martin Crawford, Patrick Whitefield, and
Chris Dixon. See site below.


http://transitionculture.org/2009/02...ure-essential-
viewing/

http://www.shade-growing.com/permacu...uture-transcri
pt

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5241
-----

As Charlie Underlog often recites,"There are no gardening mistakes, only
experiments." -- Janet Kilburn Phillips.

A damn good observation that
seems to have become a cottage industry with everyone quoting it, but
Ms. Phillips seems to be unfamiliar with chemical fertilizers.

Real gardeners grow soil as well as plants. Jobes tomato spikes and
Miracle Grow aren't healthy for your soil and they are a MISTAKE. It's
cheaper and more eco-friendly to get ORGANIC fish emulsion (the seas
have been polluted too: copper, lead, mercury, arsenic, PCBs, and PBDEs)
or manure for your plants. You don't even have to dig it in. Just cover
amendments with newspaper as described above, just below the ratings for
manure, or sprinkle it around your plants as a side dressing (18 lb/100
sq.ft., chicken manure). Don't water again until the top inch of the
soil is dry. Over feeding will encourage the plant to vegetate, instead
of setting and maturing fruit.

http://www99.epinions.com/review/Job...or_Tomatoes/co
ntent_40683146884

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Fertilize...fertilizer-Mir
acle.htm
------

p.2

Most gardeners think of plants as only taking up nutrients through root
systems and feeding the leaves. Few realize that a great deal of the
energy that results from photosynthesis in the leaves is actually used
by plants to produce

chemicals they secrete through their roots. These secretions are known
as exudates. A good analogy is perspiration, a human's exudate.
Root exudates are in the form of carbohydrates (including sugars) and
proteins. Amazingly, their presence wakes up, attracts, and grows
specific beneficial bacteria and fungi living in the soil that subsist
on these exudates and the_ cellular material sloughed off as the plant's
root tips grow. All this secretion of_ exudates and sloughing-off of
cells takes place in the rhizosphere, a zone immediately around the
roots, extending out about a tenth of an inch, or a couple of
millimeters (1 millimeter = 1/25 inch). The rhizosphere, which can
look_ like a jelly or jam under the electron microscope, contains a
constantly changing mix of soil organisms, including bacteria, fungi,
nematodes, protozoa, and_ even larger organisms. All this "life"
competes for the exudates in the rhizosphere, or its water or mineral
content.

At the bottom of the soil food web are bacteria and fungi, which are
attracted to and consume plant root exudates. In turn, they attract and
are eaten _by bigger microbes, specifically nematodes and protozoa
(remember the _amoebae, paramecia, flagellates, and ciliates you should
have studied in biology?), who eat bacteria and fungi (primarily for
carbon) to fuel their metabolic_ functions. Anything they don't need is
excreted as wastes, which plant roots are _readily able to absorb as
nutrients. How convenient that this production of_ plant nutrients takes
place right in the rhizosphere, the site of root-nutrient_ absorption.
At the center of any viable soil food web are plants. Plants control the
food_ web for their own benefit, an amazing fact that is too little
understood and_ surely not appreciated by gardeners who are constantly
interfering with Nature's system. Studies indicate that individual
plants can control the numbers_ and the different kinds of fungi and
bacteria attracted to the rhizosphere by the exudates they produce.
During different times of the growing season, populations of rhizosphere
bacteria and fungi wax and wane, depending on the nutrient needs of the
plant and the exudates it produces.

Soil bacteria and fungi are like small bags of fertilizer, retaining in
their_ bodies nitrogen and other nutrients they gain from root exudates
and other _organic matter (such as those sloughed-off root-tip cells).
Carrying on the _analogy, soil protozoa and nematodes act as "fertilizer
spreaders" by releasing ,_the nutrients locked up in the bacteria and
fungi "fertilizer bags." The nematodes and protozoa in the soil come
along and eat the bacteria and fungi in the,_ rhizosphere. They digest
what they need to survive and excrete excess carbon_ and other nutrients
as waste.

Left to their own devices, then, plants produce exudates that attract
fungi_ and bacteria (and, ultimately, nematodes and protozoa); their
survival depends on the interplay between these microbes. It is a
completely natural system, the very same one that has fueled plants
since they evolved. Soil life provides the nutrients needed for plant
life, and plants initiate and fuel the cycle_ by producing exudates.

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1

"Gardening adds years to your life and life to your years." - Anon

===

Sound advice me thinks.

Cross-Eyed Mary 4:09 Jethro Tull Aqualung

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

Bill who putters wrote:
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
"Snag" wrote:

I'm new here , and I've been reading and catching up a bit on the
group . I'm in Memphis Tn , and after last year I'm tripling the
size of my little garden plot . Had too much in too little room
last year . I've tilled up some lawn , and added a 3-4" layer of
"pro mix" compost from my local nursery . I'll be tilling that in
as soon as my tiller part arrives ... but until then , I just went
out and turned/mixed by hand the plot from last year (same 4" layer
of compost ). I must be doing something right , I found worms as
big as my little finger and 6" long in there .

Using a roto-tiller will turn the worms into hamburger. That may be a
short time benefit, but a long term loss.

Roto-tilling destroys the network of fungal hyphae that gives soil
structure. This includes the mychorrhizal network that is so
important to plants."

Mycorrhizal (MY-coh-RIZE-ul) fungi are multi-celled organisms that
form special "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine"
relationships with plant roots. As recent electron microscope images
have shown, these organisms develop into long chains called hyphae
(HIGH-fee) and get energy from the plant and help supply nutrients
to the plant. In other words, they depend on each other for survival.

Roto-tilling dislocates and chops up small invertebrate animals
(such as insects, worms and spiders), and bacteria, and it kills
worms and destroys aeration and drainage. "The soil looks nice and
smooth, but it quickly looses structure, especially in places where
you get lots of rain.

We till because early American's fell under the spell of an English
country lawyer, Jethro Tull, who thought that roots eat soil
particles and the smaller you pulverize soil, the easier it is for
roots to eat it.

To grow healthy, productive plants you need healthy, productive
soil. It is the organisms in the soil that provide the food plants
need, in the form they need, when they need it.

There is one time when using a tiller is okay: when breaking up
sod-grass. Just do one pass to break up the sod. One pass only.
The less energy you can use when planting, the better. Control weeds
with mulches, in the case of annuals and vegetables, green mulches
and in the case of perennials, shrubs and trees, brown mulches."

The idea is to avoid compacting and deep-tilling the soil, which
harms the structure.

Roto-tilling is definitely, out. The only time it is acceptable is
when you want to plant vegetables and annuals in areas just claimed
from forests. You want to increase the bacterial dominance and
rototilling does that. The fungal structure will return if organic
fertilizers are used.

Supporting soil structure is just good science.

The
wife thinks (and she's right) that it's time I get some lettuce and
spinach in the ground . I think I'll plant a couple of rows of
green onions too ... I also planted tomatoes (slicers and cherry)
, marigolds , and peppers into some peat pods today . Hopefully
this year I'll get better yield on the
'maters , last year wasn't exactly stellar - probably because of
overcrowding and not enough fertilizer . I'll be adding some
slow-release veggie fertilizer to the soil when I till the compost
in , especially where I tilled up grass .
What I won't be doing is using any chemical pesticides . I've had
pretty good luck with using a border of marigolds plus spraying
with a tea solution
made from red peppers .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

You may want to look at Lasagna (No Dig) Gardening, a.k.a. Sheet
Mulching.

You're garden soil shouldn't be more than 10%, or less than 5%
organic material.

Garden soil should be 30% - 40% sand, 30% - 40% silt, and 20% - 30%
clay. You can check your soil by scraping away the organic material
on top of the ground and then take a vertical sample of your soil to
12 in. (30 cm) deep (rectangular or circular hole). Mix this with
water in an appropriately large glass (transparent) jar. The sand
will settle out quickly, the silt in a couple of hours, and the clay
within a day. The depth of the layer in relationship to the total
(layer/total = % of composition) is the percent that fraction has in
the soil.

Garden soil needs a constant input of nutrients, i.e. carbon, e.g.
brown leaves, and nitrogen, e.g. manure in a ratio of C/N of 25.
This is the same ratio you will what in a compost pile.
-----

Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides)
by Stu Campbell

http://www.amazon.com/Let-Rot-Compos...580170234/ref=
sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294901182&sr=1-1

p.39

Compostable Material Average C/N

Alder or ash leaves ............................ 25

Grass clippings ................................ 25

Leguminous plants (peas,
beans,soybeans) ............................. 15

Manure with bedding ........................... 23

Manure ....................................... 15

Oak leaves .................................... 50

Pine needles .............................. 60-100

Sawdust................................. 150-500

Straw, cornstalks and cobs .................. 50-100

Vegetable trimmings ........................... 25
Aged Chicken Manure ........................ 7
Alfalfa ................................................ 12
Newspaper........................................ 175
-----

http://www.composting101.com/c-n-ratio.html

A Balancing Act (Carbon-to-Nitrogen Ratios)


All organic matter is made up of substantial amounts of carbon (C)
combined with lesser amounts of nitrogen (N). The balance of these
two elements in an organism is called the carbon-to-nitrogen ratio
(C:N ratio). For best performance, the compost pile, or more to the
point the composting microorganisms, require the correct proportion
of carbon for energy and nitrogen for protein production. Scientists
(yes, there are compost scientists) have determined that the fastest
way to produce fertile, sweet-smelling compost is to maintain a C:N
ratio somewhere around 25 to 30 parts carbon to 1 part nitrogen, or
25-30:1. If the C:N ratio is too high (excess carbon), decomposition
slows down. If the C:N ratio is too low (excess nitrogen) you will
end up with a stinky pile. (cont.)
------

No reason to till after the first preparation of the garden (no
reason to till the first/last time but it does speed up soil
development). Spread out your soil amendments:
? N:
? 18.37 lb. chicken manure/ 100 sq.ft. (2.88 oz/sq.ft.)
?
? P:
? 3 lb. / 100/sq.ft. (.48 oz/sq.ft.)
?
? K:
? How much wood ash should you use in your garden? The late
Bernard G. Wesenberg, a former Washington State University
Extension horticulturist, recommended using one gallon of
ashes per square yard on loam to clay-loam soil, and half as
much on sandier soils.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
? Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
? N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
? P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
? K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60


?
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
? N .70 3 5
? P .30 1 1
? K .90 2 1

? Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
? Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
? N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
? P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
? K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60


?
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
? N .70 3 5
? P .30 1 1
? K .90 2 1

? Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.

Cover this with newspaper (to block light from weeds and provide a
barrier to sprouting weeds). Cover the newspaper with mulch (up to
6" in depth). Spray the garden bed with water, and wait 6 weeks
before planting (if you can).

A dibble can help with planting. The dinky little ones from the
nursery may be of some help, but I prefer a sharpened, old, shovel
handle for making a hole through the mulch and paper for planting
seedlings.

Adding drip lines takes a little time, but saves a lot of time during
the season.

Additional info:

http://www.diggers.com.au/articleWhatsNewIsOld.shtml
What's new is old
CLIVE BLAZEY EXPLAINS WHY HEIRLOOM SEEDS ARE SUPERIOR TO HYBRIDS AND
GENETICALLY ENGINEERED (GE) SEEDS.
-----

http://www.choiceinagriculture.com/a...d-business-rol
e-revealed

AP INVESTIGATION: Monsanto seed biz role revealed

By CHRISTOPHER LEONARD AP Agribusiness Writer © 2009 The Associated
Press Dec. 13, 2009, 11:54PM

ST. LOUIS Confidential contracts detailing Monsanto Co.'s business
practices reveal how the world's biggest seed developer is squeezing
competitors, controlling smaller seed companies and protecting its
dominance over the multibillion-dollar market for genetically altered
crops, an Associated Press investigation has found.
---

http://transitionculture.org/2009/02...re-essential-v
iewing/

#3
harvesting winter grass for cattle is the largest expenditure of
fossil fuel on this farm.
Winter grazing at a neighboring farm is possible because of the mix
of grasses, which make the grasses strong enough not to get dug up
by cow hooves.
Grasses don't require fossil fuel.
Grasses inspired by woodland grass that grew naturally, without
encouragement.
Woodland grass grew on soil with biological diversity.
Plowing killed soil organisms.
Fossil fuel allows more plowing, and provides chemferts.
Fossil fuel is used to grow crops in soil that is essentially dead.
When fossil fuel runs out, we will need living soil.
Cattle require a lot of land, and for Britain to become self
sufficient, people will need to eat less meat, and farmers will need
to raise other crops as well.
Introduction of permaculture and permaculture expert Patrick
Whitefield. Three ways of farming, drugery, fossil fuel, and design.

#4
Woodland are the most efficient growing system for the British
climate. Farming based on natural ecology. "What we got to do is
take the principals of this (the forest), and think how far we can
bend them towards something more edible."
- Patrick Whitefield
The demonstration farm is a collection of small clearings in a
massive woodland.
Chris & Lynn DIxon produce all the fruit, vegetables, meat, and the
fuel they need to cook them, in return for a few days work per week.
When they started, 20 years before, the farm was degraded, marginal,
pasture land. The first thing that they did was let the land return
to its natural state, a chaotic woodland, but in its present state,
the chaos is very highly structured.
The gorse fixes nitrogen, the bracken collecting pot ash, and by
encouraging the birds, they are encouraging the phosphate cycle
through the system. Thus no need for sacks of fossil fuel
fertilizers, it's all provided by nature. Carkey Campbell
(sp?)ducks provide insect protection.
All the plants provides some service.
Willow Leyland Ash (tree) branches are fed to horses, cattle, and
sheep. Using the full height of trees and hedges, you can squeeze
higher yields out of the same piece of land. Plants not producing
crops are recycling nutrient. Cannon (?) Alder supplies nitrogen
through its leaf litter ;O), root system

#5
and by beneficial fungi that link up everything under the ground, and
move nutrients around. All the plants are there for a reason, or
multiple reasons. Plants that attract beneficial insects do away with
the need for pesticides. The garden requires, over the year, a day a
week of work, but a lot of that is harvesting. Maintenance is 10
days/year. Yields from a forest garden (a low energy, low maintenance
system) should be able to feed 10 people/acre, which is double the
amount of people that contemporary farming can feed. What you can't
grow is cereal crops, which can be replaced by nut crops, which are
more sustainable. Orchards require less energy than a field of wheat.
Nutrient composition of chestnuts is similar to that of rice.
--

Gardening with hand tools is more productive and energy efficient
than farming. It's the attention to detail that an experienced
gardener can give to a small plot that makes it so productive. They
can provide up to 5 times more food per sq. meter, than a large farm.

Modern farming and distribution methods are unlikely to survive the
increasing costs of petroleum. The modern demographic change of the
21st Century will be re-ruralization. Proportion of people involved
in food production will increase.

The above remarks come from Martin Crawford, Patrick Whitefield, and
Chris Dixon. See site below.


http://transitionculture.org/2009/02...ure-essential-
viewing/

http://www.shade-growing.com/permacu...uture-transcri
pt

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5241
-----

As Charlie Underlog often recites,"There are no gardening mistakes,
only experiments." -- Janet Kilburn Phillips.

A damn good observation that
seems to have become a cottage industry with everyone quoting it, but
Ms. Phillips seems to be unfamiliar with chemical fertilizers.

Real gardeners grow soil as well as plants. Jobes tomato spikes and
Miracle Grow aren't healthy for your soil and they are a MISTAKE.
It's cheaper and more eco-friendly to get ORGANIC fish emulsion (the
seas have been polluted too: copper, lead, mercury, arsenic, PCBs,
and PBDEs) or manure for your plants. You don't even have to dig it
in. Just cover amendments with newspaper as described above, just
below the ratings for manure, or sprinkle it around your plants as a
side dressing (18 lb/100 sq.ft., chicken manure). Don't water again
until the top inch of the soil is dry. Over feeding will encourage
the plant to vegetate, instead of setting and maturing fruit.

http://www99.epinions.com/review/Job...or_Tomatoes/co
ntent_40683146884

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Fertilize...fertilizer-Mir
acle.htm
------

p.2

Most gardeners think of plants as only taking up nutrients through
root systems and feeding the leaves. Few realize that a great deal
of the energy that results from photosynthesis in the leaves is
actually used by plants to produce

chemicals they secrete through their roots. These secretions are
known as exudates. A good analogy is perspiration, a human's exudate.
Root exudates are in the form of carbohydrates (including sugars) and
proteins. Amazingly, their presence wakes up, attracts, and grows
specific beneficial bacteria and fungi living in the soil that
subsist on these exudates and the_ cellular material sloughed off as
the plant's root tips grow. All this secretion of_ exudates and
sloughing-off of cells takes place in the rhizosphere, a zone
immediately around the roots, extending out about a tenth of an
inch, or a couple of millimeters (1 millimeter = 1/25 inch). The
rhizosphere, which can look_ like a jelly or jam under the electron
microscope, contains a constantly changing mix of soil organisms,
including bacteria, fungi, nematodes, protozoa, and_ even larger
organisms. All this "life" competes for the exudates in the
rhizosphere, or its water or mineral content.

At the bottom of the soil food web are bacteria and fungi, which are
attracted to and consume plant root exudates. In turn, they attract
and are eaten _by bigger microbes, specifically nematodes and
protozoa (remember the _amoebae, paramecia, flagellates, and
ciliates you should have studied in biology?), who eat bacteria and
fungi (primarily for carbon) to fuel their metabolic_ functions.
Anything they don't need is excreted as wastes, which plant roots
are _readily able to absorb as nutrients. How convenient that this
production of_ plant nutrients takes place right in the rhizosphere,
the site of root-nutrient_ absorption. At the center of any viable
soil food web are plants. Plants control the food_ web for their own
benefit, an amazing fact that is too little understood and_ surely
not appreciated by gardeners who are constantly interfering with
Nature's system. Studies indicate that individual plants can control
the numbers_ and the different kinds of fungi and bacteria attracted
to the rhizosphere by the exudates they produce. During different
times of the growing season, populations of rhizosphere bacteria and
fungi wax and wane, depending on the nutrient needs of the plant and
the exudates it produces.

Soil bacteria and fungi are like small bags of fertilizer, retaining
in their_ bodies nitrogen and other nutrients they gain from root
exudates and other _organic matter (such as those sloughed-off
root-tip cells). Carrying on the _analogy, soil protozoa and
nematodes act as "fertilizer spreaders" by releasing ,_the nutrients
locked up in the bacteria and fungi "fertilizer bags." The nematodes
and protozoa in the soil come along and eat the bacteria and fungi
in the,_ rhizosphere. They digest what they need to survive and
excrete excess carbon_ and other nutrients as waste.

Left to their own devices, then, plants produce exudates that attract
fungi_ and bacteria (and, ultimately, nematodes and protozoa); their
survival depends on the interplay between these microbes. It is a
completely natural system, the very same one that has fueled plants
since they evolved. Soil life provides the nutrients needed for plant
life, and plants initiate and fuel the cycle_ by producing exudates.

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1

"Gardening adds years to your life and life to your years." - Anon

===

Sound advice me thinks.

Cross-Eyed Mary 4:09 Jethro Tull Aqualung

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

Actually , more detailed than I really expected ... and once I've
incorporated some organic matter into this poor excuse for soil I have ,
I'll put the tiller away . This area has been in grass and weeds for years .
The soil is heavily compacted , and has quite a bit of clay . Once it's
prepared , I'll be following (more or less) Ruth Stout's methods .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

Actually , more detailed than I really expected ... and once I've
incorporated some organic matter into this poor excuse for soil I have ,
I'll put the tiller away . This area has been in grass and weeds for years .
The soil is heavily compacted , and has quite a bit of clay . Once it's
prepared , I'll be following (more or less) Ruth Stout's methods


Yes, far mor information than you need, but if you spend any time in this
group you'll find that to be the norm with some. They have way too much
time on their hands and take themselves way to seriously. If you have worms
like that, you're off to a good start. I'll offer you the same advice I've
given here prviously. I suggest you look at;

www.dirtdoctor.com

Not a method of one man, but a compilation of techniques and tips from
people who actually use them. They are all organic. Take a look and see
what you think. I'm not affiliated with the website in any way.
Good luck with your new garden and have fun!

In article
,
Billy wrote:
Sorry, I didn't identify the type of phosphate product.

€ P:
€ 3 lb. / 100/sq.ft. (.48 oz/sq.ft.)

As rock phosphate

-----
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

In article
,
Billy wrote:

Cover this with newspaper (to block light from weeds and provide a
barrier to sprouting weeds). Cover the newspaper with mulch (up to 6" in
depth). Spray the garden bed with water, and wait 6 weeks before
planting (if you can).

I did this to one bed today, tossed around some iron (ferric) phosphate
to knock back the slugs and snails, and I'll plant peas tomorrow. The
peas are starting to grow tendrils, and once they interlace, separating
them, without doing too much damage, is tricky.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

In article ,
"Snag" wrote:

Bill who putters wrote:
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
"Snag" wrote:

I'm new here , and I've been reading and catching up a bit on the
group . I'm in Memphis Tn , and after last year I'm tripling the
size of my little garden plot . Had too much in too little room
last year . I've tilled up some lawn , and added a 3-4" layer of
"pro mix" compost from my local nursery . I'll be tilling that in
as soon as my tiller part arrives ... but until then , I just went
out and turned/mixed by hand the plot from last year (same 4" layer
of compost ). I must be doing something right , I found worms as
big as my little finger and 6" long in there .

Using a roto-tiller will turn the worms into hamburger. That may be a
short time benefit, but a long term loss.

Roto-tilling destroys the network of fungal hyphae that gives soil
structure. This includes the mychorrhizal network that is so
important to plants."

Mycorrhizal (MY-coh-RIZE-ul) fungi are multi-celled organisms that
form special "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine"
relationships with plant roots. As recent electron microscope images
have shown, these organisms develop into long chains called hyphae
(HIGH-fee) and get energy from the plant and help supply nutrients
to the plant. In other words, they depend on each other for survival.

Roto-tilling dislocates and chops up small invertebrate animals
(such as insects, worms and spiders), and bacteria, and it kills
worms and destroys aeration and drainage. "The soil looks nice and
smooth, but it quickly looses structure, especially in places where
you get lots of rain.

We till because early American's fell under the spell of an English
country lawyer, Jethro Tull, who thought that roots eat soil
particles and the smaller you pulverize soil, the easier it is for
roots to eat it.

To grow healthy, productive plants you need healthy, productive
soil. It is the organisms in the soil that provide the food plants
need, in the form they need, when they need it.

There is one time when using a tiller is okay: when breaking up
sod-grass. Just do one pass to break up the sod. One pass only.
The less energy you can use when planting, the better. Control weeds
with mulches, in the case of annuals and vegetables, green mulches
and in the case of perennials, shrubs and trees, brown mulches."

The idea is to avoid compacting and deep-tilling the soil, which
harms the structure.

Roto-tilling is definitely, out. The only time it is acceptable is
when you want to plant vegetables and annuals in areas just claimed
from forests. You want to increase the bacterial dominance and
rototilling does that. The fungal structure will return if organic
fertilizers are used.

Supporting soil structure is just good science.

The
wife thinks (and she's right) that it's time I get some lettuce and
spinach in the ground . I think I'll plant a couple of rows of
green onions too ... I also planted tomatoes (slicers and cherry)
, marigolds , and peppers into some peat pods today . Hopefully
this year I'll get better yield on the
'maters , last year wasn't exactly stellar - probably because of
overcrowding and not enough fertilizer . I'll be adding some
slow-release veggie fertilizer to the soil when I till the compost
in , especially where I tilled up grass .
What I won't be doing is using any chemical pesticides . I've had
pretty good luck with using a border of marigolds plus spraying
with a tea solution
made from red peppers .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

You may want to look at Lasagna (No Dig) Gardening, a.k.a. Sheet
Mulching.

You're garden soil shouldn't be more than 10%, or less than 5%
organic material.

Garden soil should be 30% - 40% sand, 30% - 40% silt, and 20% - 30%
clay. You can check your soil by scraping away the organic material
on top of the ground and then take a vertical sample of your soil to
12 in. (30 cm) deep (rectangular or circular hole). Mix this with
water in an appropriately large glass (transparent) jar. The sand
will settle out quickly, the silt in a couple of hours, and the clay
within a day. The depth of the layer in relationship to the total
(layer/total = % of composition) is the percent that fraction has in
the soil.

Garden soil needs a constant input of nutrients, i.e. carbon, e.g.
brown leaves, and nitrogen, e.g. manure in a ratio of C/N of 25.
This is the same ratio you will what in a compost pile.
-----

Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides)
by Stu Campbell

http://www.amazon.com/Let-Rot-Compos...580170234/ref=
sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294901182&sr=1-1

p.39

Compostable Material Average C/N

Alder or ash leaves ............................ 25

Grass clippings ................................ 25

Leguminous plants (peas,
beans,soybeans) ............................. 15

Manure with bedding ........................... 23

Manure ....................................... 15

Oak leaves .................................... 50

Pine needles .............................. 60-100

Sawdust................................. 150-500

Straw, cornstalks and cobs .................. 50-100

Vegetable trimmings ........................... 25
Aged Chicken Manure ........................ 7
Alfalfa ................................................ 12
Newspaper........................................ 175
-----

http://www.composting101.com/c-n-ratio.html

A Balancing Act (Carbon-to-Nitrogen Ratios)


All organic matter is made up of substantial amounts of carbon (C)
combined with lesser amounts of nitrogen (N). The balance of these
two elements in an organism is called the carbon-to-nitrogen ratio
(C:N ratio). For best performance, the compost pile, or more to the
point the composting microorganisms, require the correct proportion
of carbon for energy and nitrogen for protein production. Scientists
(yes, there are compost scientists) have determined that the fastest
way to produce fertile, sweet-smelling compost is to maintain a C:N
ratio somewhere around 25 to 30 parts carbon to 1 part nitrogen, or
25-30:1. If the C:N ratio is too high (excess carbon), decomposition
slows down. If the C:N ratio is too low (excess nitrogen) you will
end up with a stinky pile. (cont.)
------

No reason to till after the first preparation of the garden (no
reason to till the first/last time but it does speed up soil
development). Spread out your soil amendments:
? N:
? 18.37 lb. chicken manure/ 100 sq.ft. (2.88 oz/sq.ft.)
?
? P:
? 3 lb. / 100/sq.ft. (.48 oz/sq.ft.)
?
? K:
? How much wood ash should you use in your garden? The late
Bernard G. Wesenberg, a former Washington State University
Extension horticulturist, recommended using one gallon of
ashes per square yard on loam to clay-loam soil, and half as
much on sandier soils.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
? Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
? N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
? P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
? K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60


?
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
? N .70 3 5
? P .30 1 1
? K .90 2 1

? Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
? Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
? N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
? P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
? K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60


?
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
? N .70 3 5
? P .30 1 1
? K .90 2 1

? Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.

Cover this with newspaper (to block light from weeds and provide a
barrier to sprouting weeds). Cover the newspaper with mulch (up to
6" in depth). Spray the garden bed with water, and wait 6 weeks
before planting (if you can).

A dibble can help with planting. The dinky little ones from the
nursery may be of some help, but I prefer a sharpened, old, shovel
handle for making a hole through the mulch and paper for planting
seedlings.

Adding drip lines takes a little time, but saves a lot of time during
the season.

Additional info:

http://www.diggers.com.au/articleWhatsNewIsOld.shtml
What's new is old
CLIVE BLAZEY EXPLAINS WHY HEIRLOOM SEEDS ARE SUPERIOR TO HYBRIDS AND
GENETICALLY ENGINEERED (GE) SEEDS.
-----

http://www.choiceinagriculture.com/a...d-business-rol
e-revealed

AP INVESTIGATION: Monsanto seed biz role revealed

By CHRISTOPHER LEONARD AP Agribusiness Writer © 2009 The Associated
Press Dec. 13, 2009, 11:54PM

ST. LOUIS Confidential contracts detailing Monsanto Co.'s business
practices reveal how the world's biggest seed developer is squeezing
competitors, controlling smaller seed companies and protecting its
dominance over the multibillion-dollar market for genetically altered
crops, an Associated Press investigation has found.
---

http://transitionculture.org/2009/02...re-essential-v
iewing/

#3
harvesting winter grass for cattle is the largest expenditure of
fossil fuel on this farm.
Winter grazing at a neighboring farm is possible because of the mix
of grasses, which make the grasses strong enough not to get dug up
by cow hooves.
Grasses don't require fossil fuel.
Grasses inspired by woodland grass that grew naturally, without
encouragement.
Woodland grass grew on soil with biological diversity.
Plowing killed soil organisms.
Fossil fuel allows more plowing, and provides chemferts.
Fossil fuel is used to grow crops in soil that is essentially dead.
When fossil fuel runs out, we will need living soil.
Cattle require a lot of land, and for Britain to become self
sufficient, people will need to eat less meat, and farmers will need
to raise other crops as well.
Introduction of permaculture and permaculture expert Patrick
Whitefield. Three ways of farming, drugery, fossil fuel, and design.

#4
Woodland are the most efficient growing system for the British
climate. Farming based on natural ecology. "What we got to do is
take the principals of this (the forest), and think how far we can
bend them towards something more edible."
- Patrick Whitefield
The demonstration farm is a collection of small clearings in a
massive woodland.
Chris & Lynn DIxon produce all the fruit, vegetables, meat, and the
fuel they need to cook them, in return for a few days work per week.
When they started, 20 years before, the farm was degraded, marginal,
pasture land. The first thing that they did was let the land return
to its natural state, a chaotic woodland, but in its present state,
the chaos is very highly structured.
The gorse fixes nitrogen, the bracken collecting pot ash, and by
encouraging the birds, they are encouraging the phosphate cycle
through the system. Thus no need for sacks of fossil fuel
fertilizers, it's all provided by nature. Carkey Campbell
(sp?)ducks provide insect protection.
All the plants provides some service.
Willow Leyland Ash (tree) branches are fed to horses, cattle, and
sheep. Using the full height of trees and hedges, you can squeeze
higher yields out of the same piece of land. Plants not producing
crops are recycling nutrient. Cannon (?) Alder supplies nitrogen
through its leaf litter ;O), root system

#5
and by beneficial fungi that link up everything under the ground, and
move nutrients around. All the plants are there for a reason, or
multiple reasons. Plants that attract beneficial insects do away with
the need for pesticides. The garden requires, over the year, a day a
week of work, but a lot of that is harvesting. Maintenance is 10
days/year. Yields from a forest garden (a low energy, low maintenance
system) should be able to feed 10 people/acre, which is double the
amount of people that contemporary farming can feed. What you can't
grow is cereal crops, which can be replaced by nut crops, which are
more sustainable. Orchards require less energy than a field of wheat.
Nutrient composition of chestnuts is similar to that of rice.
--

Gardening with hand tools is more productive and energy efficient
than farming. It's the attention to detail that an experienced
gardener can give to a small plot that makes it so productive. They
can provide up to 5 times more food per sq. meter, than a large farm.

Modern farming and distribution methods are unlikely to survive the
increasing costs of petroleum. The modern demographic change of the
21st Century will be re-ruralization. Proportion of people involved
in food production will increase.

The above remarks come from Martin Crawford, Patrick Whitefield, and
Chris Dixon. See site below.


http://transitionculture.org/2009/02...ure-essential-
viewing/

http://www.shade-growing.com/permacu...uture-transcri
pt

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5241
-----

As Charlie Underlog often recites,"There are no gardening mistakes,
only experiments." -- Janet Kilburn Phillips.

A damn good observation that
seems to have become a cottage industry with everyone quoting it, but
Ms. Phillips seems to be unfamiliar with chemical fertilizers.

Real gardeners grow soil as well as plants. Jobes tomato spikes and
Miracle Grow aren't healthy for your soil and they are a MISTAKE.
It's cheaper and more eco-friendly to get ORGANIC fish emulsion (the
seas have been polluted too: copper, lead, mercury, arsenic, PCBs,
and PBDEs) or manure for your plants. You don't even have to dig it
in. Just cover amendments with newspaper as described above, just
below the ratings for manure, or sprinkle it around your plants as a
side dressing (18 lb/100 sq.ft., chicken manure). Don't water again
until the top inch of the soil is dry. Over feeding will encourage
the plant to vegetate, instead of setting and maturing fruit.

http://www99.epinions.com/review/Job...or_Tomatoes/co
ntent_40683146884

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Fertilize...fertilizer-Mir
acle.htm
------

p.2

Most gardeners think of plants as only taking up nutrients through
root systems and feeding the leaves. Few realize that a great deal
of the energy that results from photosynthesis in the leaves is
actually used by plants to produce

chemicals they secrete through their roots. These secretions are
known as exudates. A good analogy is perspiration, a human's exudate.
Root exudates are in the form of carbohydrates (including sugars) and
proteins. Amazingly, their presence wakes up, attracts, and grows
specific beneficial bacteria and fungi living in the soil that
subsist on these exudates and the_ cellular material sloughed off as
the plant's root tips grow. All this secretion of_ exudates and
sloughing-off of cells takes place in the rhizosphere, a zone
immediately around the roots, extending out about a tenth of an
inch, or a couple of millimeters (1 millimeter = 1/25 inch). The
rhizosphere, which can look_ like a jelly or jam under the electron
microscope, contains a constantly changing mix of soil organisms,
including bacteria, fungi, nematodes, protozoa, and_ even larger
organisms. All this "life" competes for the exudates in the
rhizosphere, or its water or mineral content.

At the bottom of the soil food web are bacteria and fungi, which are
attracted to and consume plant root exudates. In turn, they attract
and are eaten _by bigger microbes, specifically nematodes and
protozoa (remember the _amoebae, paramecia, flagellates, and
ciliates you should have studied in biology?), who eat bacteria and
fungi (primarily for carbon) to fuel their metabolic_ functions.
Anything they don't need is excreted as wastes, which plant roots
are _readily able to absorb as nutrients. How convenient that this
production of_ plant nutrients takes place right in the rhizosphere,
the site of root-nutrient_ absorption. At the center of any viable
soil food web are plants. Plants control the food_ web for their own
benefit, an amazing fact that is too little understood and_ surely
not appreciated by gardeners who are constantly interfering with
Nature's system. Studies indicate that individual plants can control
the numbers_ and the different kinds of fungi and bacteria attracted
to the rhizosphere by the exudates they produce. During different
times of the growing season, populations of rhizosphere bacteria and
fungi wax and wane, depending on the nutrient needs of the plant and
the exudates it produces.

Soil bacteria and fungi are like small bags of fertilizer, retaining
in their_ bodies nitrogen and other nutrients they gain from root
exudates and other _organic matter (such as those sloughed-off
root-tip cells). Carrying on the _analogy, soil protozoa and
nematodes act as "fertilizer spreaders" by releasing ,_the nutrients
locked up in the bacteria and fungi "fertilizer bags." The nematodes
and protozoa in the soil come along and eat the bacteria and fungi
in the,_ rhizosphere. They digest what they need to survive and
excrete excess carbon_ and other nutrients as waste.

Left to their own devices, then, plants produce exudates that attract
fungi_ and bacteria (and, ultimately, nematodes and protozoa); their
survival depends on the interplay between these microbes. It is a
completely natural system, the very same one that has fueled plants
since they evolved. Soil life provides the nutrients needed for plant
life, and plants initiate and fuel the cycle_ by producing exudates.

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1

"Gardening adds years to your life and life to your years." - Anon

===

Sound advice me thinks.

Cross-Eyed Mary 4:09 Jethro Tull Aqualung

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

Actually , more detailed than I really expected ... and once I've
incorporated some organic matter into this poor excuse for soil I have ,
I'll put the tiller away . This area has been in grass and weeds for years .
The soil is heavily compacted , and has quite a bit of clay . Once it's
prepared , I'll be following (more or less) Ruth Stout's methods .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

Clover, and buckwheat cover crops can do wonders for clay soil.

Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden.
- Orson Scott Card


====
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyE5wjc4XOw

On Mar 20, 7:37*pm, Billy wrote:
In article
,*Billy wrote:

Sorry, I didn't identify the type of phosphate product.

* *€ *P: *
* *€ *3 lb. / 100/sq.ft. (.48 oz/sq.ft.)

As rock phosphate

He can take one taste and tell all that. good trick.

On Mar 20, 7:09*pm, "Thos" wrote:
Actually , more detailed than I really expected ... and once I've
incorporated some organic matter into this poor excuse for soil I have ,
I'll put the tiller away . This area has been in grass and weeds for years .
The soil is heavily compacted , and has quite a bit of clay . Once it's
prepared , I'll be following (more or less) Ruth Stout's methods

Yes, far *mor information than you need, but if you spend any time in this
group you'll find that to be the norm with some. *They have way too much
time on their hands and take themselves way to seriously. *If you have worms
like that, you're off to a good start. *I'll offer you the same advice I've
given here prviously. *I suggest you look at;

www.dirtdoctor.com

Not a method of one man, but a compilation of techniques and tips from
people who actually use them. *They are all organic. *Take a look and see
what you think. *I'm not affiliated with the website in any way.
Good luck with your new garden and have fun!

Yes but bill without a net wrote so much, he must know what he is
yacking about!

"Snag" wrote in message
...
Bill who putters wrote:
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
"Snag" wrote:

I'm new here , and I've been reading and catching up a bit on the
group . I'm in Memphis Tn , and after last year I'm tripling the
size of my little garden plot . Had too much in too little room
last year . I've tilled up some lawn , and added a 3-4" layer of
"pro mix" compost from my local nursery . I'll be tilling that in
as soon as my tiller part arrives ... but until then , I just went
out and turned/mixed by hand the plot from last year (same 4" layer
of compost ). I must be doing something right , I found worms as
big as my little finger and 6" long in there .

Using a roto-tiller will turn the worms into hamburger. That may be a
short time benefit, but a long term loss.

Roto-tilling destroys the network of fungal hyphae that gives soil
structure. This includes the mychorrhizal network that is so
important to plants."

Mycorrhizal (MY-coh-RIZE-ul) fungi are multi-celled organisms that
form special "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine"
relationships with plant roots. As recent electron microscope images
have shown, these organisms develop into long chains called hyphae
(HIGH-fee) and get energy from the plant and help supply nutrients
to the plant. In other words, they depend on each other for survival.

Roto-tilling dislocates and chops up small invertebrate animals
(such as insects, worms and spiders), and bacteria, and it kills
worms and destroys aeration and drainage. "The soil looks nice and
smooth, but it quickly looses structure, especially in places where
you get lots of rain.

We till because early American's fell under the spell of an English
country lawyer, Jethro Tull, who thought that roots eat soil
particles and the smaller you pulverize soil, the easier it is for
roots to eat it.

To grow healthy, productive plants you need healthy, productive
soil. It is the organisms in the soil that provide the food plants
need, in the form they need, when they need it.

There is one time when using a tiller is okay: when breaking up
sod-grass. Just do one pass to break up the sod. One pass only.
The less energy you can use when planting, the better. Control weeds
with mulches, in the case of annuals and vegetables, green mulches
and in the case of perennials, shrubs and trees, brown mulches."

The idea is to avoid compacting and deep-tilling the soil, which
harms the structure.

Roto-tilling is definitely, out. The only time it is acceptable is
when you want to plant vegetables and annuals in areas just claimed
from forests. You want to increase the bacterial dominance and
rototilling does that. The fungal structure will return if organic
fertilizers are used.

Supporting soil structure is just good science.

The
wife thinks (and she's right) that it's time I get some lettuce and
spinach in the ground . I think I'll plant a couple of rows of
green onions too ... I also planted tomatoes (slicers and cherry)
, marigolds , and peppers into some peat pods today . Hopefully
this year I'll get better yield on the
'maters , last year wasn't exactly stellar - probably because of
overcrowding and not enough fertilizer . I'll be adding some
slow-release veggie fertilizer to the soil when I till the compost
in , especially where I tilled up grass .
What I won't be doing is using any chemical pesticides . I've had
pretty good luck with using a border of marigolds plus spraying
with a tea solution
made from red peppers .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

You may want to look at Lasagna (No Dig) Gardening, a.k.a. Sheet
Mulching.

You're garden soil shouldn't be more than 10%, or less than 5%
organic material.

Garden soil should be 30% - 40% sand, 30% - 40% silt, and 20% - 30%
clay. You can check your soil by scraping away the organic material
on top of the ground and then take a vertical sample of your soil to
12 in. (30 cm) deep (rectangular or circular hole). Mix this with
water in an appropriately large glass (transparent) jar. The sand
will settle out quickly, the silt in a couple of hours, and the clay
within a day. The depth of the layer in relationship to the total
(layer/total = % of composition) is the percent that fraction has in
the soil.

Garden soil needs a constant input of nutrients, i.e. carbon, e.g.
brown leaves, and nitrogen, e.g. manure in a ratio of C/N of 25.
This is the same ratio you will what in a compost pile.
-----

Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides)
by Stu Campbell

http://www.amazon.com/Let-Rot-Compos...580170234/ref=
sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294901182&sr=1-1

p.39

Compostable Material Average C/N

Alder or ash leaves ............................ 25

Grass clippings ................................ 25

Leguminous plants (peas,
beans,soybeans) ............................. 15

Manure with bedding ........................... 23

Manure ....................................... 15

Oak leaves .................................... 50

Pine needles .............................. 60-100

Sawdust................................. 150-500

Straw, cornstalks and cobs .................. 50-100

Vegetable trimmings ........................... 25
Aged Chicken Manure ........................ 7
Alfalfa ................................................ 12
Newspaper........................................ 175
-----

http://www.composting101.com/c-n-ratio.html

A Balancing Act (Carbon-to-Nitrogen Ratios)


All organic matter is made up of substantial amounts of carbon (C)
combined with lesser amounts of nitrogen (N). The balance of these
two elements in an organism is called the carbon-to-nitrogen ratio
(C:N ratio). For best performance, the compost pile, or more to the
point the composting microorganisms, require the correct proportion
of carbon for energy and nitrogen for protein production. Scientists
(yes, there are compost scientists) have determined that the fastest
way to produce fertile, sweet-smelling compost is to maintain a C:N
ratio somewhere around 25 to 30 parts carbon to 1 part nitrogen, or
25-30:1. If the C:N ratio is too high (excess carbon), decomposition
slows down. If the C:N ratio is too low (excess nitrogen) you will
end up with a stinky pile. (cont.)
------

No reason to till after the first preparation of the garden (no
reason to till the first/last time but it does speed up soil
development). Spread out your soil amendments:
? N:
? 18.37 lb. chicken manure/ 100 sq.ft. (2.88 oz/sq.ft.)
?
? P:
? 3 lb. / 100/sq.ft. (.48 oz/sq.ft.)
?
? K:
? How much wood ash should you use in your garden? The late
Bernard G. Wesenberg, a former Washington State University
Extension horticulturist, recommended using one gallon of
ashes per square yard on loam to clay-loam soil, and half as
much on sandier soils.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
? Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
? N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
? P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
? K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60


?
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
? N .70 3 5
? P .30 1 1
? K .90 2 1

? Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
? Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
? N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
? P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
? K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60


?
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
? N .70 3 5
? P .30 1 1
? K .90 2 1

? Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.

Cover this with newspaper (to block light from weeds and provide a
barrier to sprouting weeds). Cover the newspaper with mulch (up to
6" in depth). Spray the garden bed with water, and wait 6 weeks
before planting (if you can).

A dibble can help with planting. The dinky little ones from the
nursery may be of some help, but I prefer a sharpened, old, shovel
handle for making a hole through the mulch and paper for planting
seedlings.

Adding drip lines takes a little time, but saves a lot of time during
the season.

Additional info:

http://www.diggers.com.au/articleWhatsNewIsOld.shtml
What's new is old
CLIVE BLAZEY EXPLAINS WHY HEIRLOOM SEEDS ARE SUPERIOR TO HYBRIDS AND
GENETICALLY ENGINEERED (GE) SEEDS.
-----

http://www.choiceinagriculture.com/a...d-business-rol
e-revealed

AP INVESTIGATION: Monsanto seed biz role revealed

By CHRISTOPHER LEONARD AP Agribusiness Writer © 2009 The Associated
Press Dec. 13, 2009, 11:54PM

ST. LOUIS Confidential contracts detailing Monsanto Co.'s business
practices reveal how the world's biggest seed developer is squeezing
competitors, controlling smaller seed companies and protecting its
dominance over the multibillion-dollar market for genetically altered
crops, an Associated Press investigation has found.
---

http://transitionculture.org/2009/02...re-essential-v
iewing/

#3
harvesting winter grass for cattle is the largest expenditure of
fossil fuel on this farm.
Winter grazing at a neighboring farm is possible because of the mix
of grasses, which make the grasses strong enough not to get dug up
by cow hooves.
Grasses don't require fossil fuel.
Grasses inspired by woodland grass that grew naturally, without
encouragement.
Woodland grass grew on soil with biological diversity.
Plowing killed soil organisms.
Fossil fuel allows more plowing, and provides chemferts.
Fossil fuel is used to grow crops in soil that is essentially dead.
When fossil fuel runs out, we will need living soil.
Cattle require a lot of land, and for Britain to become self
sufficient, people will need to eat less meat, and farmers will need
to raise other crops as well.
Introduction of permaculture and permaculture expert Patrick
Whitefield. Three ways of farming, drugery, fossil fuel, and design.

#4
Woodland are the most efficient growing system for the British
climate. Farming based on natural ecology. "What we got to do is
take the principals of this (the forest), and think how far we can
bend them towards something more edible."
- Patrick Whitefield
The demonstration farm is a collection of small clearings in a
massive woodland.
Chris & Lynn DIxon produce all the fruit, vegetables, meat, and the
fuel they need to cook them, in return for a few days work per week.
When they started, 20 years before, the farm was degraded, marginal,
pasture land. The first thing that they did was let the land return
to its natural state, a chaotic woodland, but in its present state,
the chaos is very highly structured.
The gorse fixes nitrogen, the bracken collecting pot ash, and by
encouraging the birds, they are encouraging the phosphate cycle
through the system. Thus no need for sacks of fossil fuel
fertilizers, it's all provided by nature. Carkey Campbell
(sp?)ducks provide insect protection.
All the plants provides some service.
Willow Leyland Ash (tree) branches are fed to horses, cattle, and
sheep. Using the full height of trees and hedges, you can squeeze
higher yields out of the same piece of land. Plants not producing
crops are recycling nutrient. Cannon (?) Alder supplies nitrogen
through its leaf litter ;O), root system

#5
and by beneficial fungi that link up everything under the ground, and
move nutrients around. All the plants are there for a reason, or
multiple reasons. Plants that attract beneficial insects do away with
the need for pesticides. The garden requires, over the year, a day a
week of work, but a lot of that is harvesting. Maintenance is 10
days/year. Yields from a forest garden (a low energy, low maintenance
system) should be able to feed 10 people/acre, which is double the
amount of people that contemporary farming can feed. What you can't
grow is cereal crops, which can be replaced by nut crops, which are
more sustainable. Orchards require less energy than a field of wheat.
Nutrient composition of chestnuts is similar to that of rice.
--

Gardening with hand tools is more productive and energy efficient
than farming. It's the attention to detail that an experienced
gardener can give to a small plot that makes it so productive. They
can provide up to 5 times more food per sq. meter, than a large farm.

Modern farming and distribution methods are unlikely to survive the
increasing costs of petroleum. The modern demographic change of the
21st Century will be re-ruralization. Proportion of people involved
in food production will increase.

The above remarks come from Martin Crawford, Patrick Whitefield, and
Chris Dixon. See site below.


http://transitionculture.org/2009/02...ure-essential-
viewing/

http://www.shade-growing.com/permacu...uture-transcri
pt

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5241
-----

As Charlie Underlog often recites,"There are no gardening mistakes,
only experiments." -- Janet Kilburn Phillips.

A damn good observation that
seems to have become a cottage industry with everyone quoting it, but
Ms. Phillips seems to be unfamiliar with chemical fertilizers.

Real gardeners grow soil as well as plants. Jobes tomato spikes and
Miracle Grow aren't healthy for your soil and they are a MISTAKE.
It's cheaper and more eco-friendly to get ORGANIC fish emulsion (the
seas have been polluted too: copper, lead, mercury, arsenic, PCBs,
and PBDEs) or manure for your plants. You don't even have to dig it
in. Just cover amendments with newspaper as described above, just
below the ratings for manure, or sprinkle it around your plants as a
side dressing (18 lb/100 sq.ft., chicken manure). Don't water again
until the top inch of the soil is dry. Over feeding will encourage
the plant to vegetate, instead of setting and maturing fruit.

http://www99.epinions.com/review/Job...or_Tomatoes/co
ntent_40683146884

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Fertilize...fertilizer-Mir
acle.htm
------

p.2

Most gardeners think of plants as only taking up nutrients through
root systems and feeding the leaves. Few realize that a great deal
of the energy that results from photosynthesis in the leaves is
actually used by plants to produce

chemicals they secrete through their roots. These secretions are
known as exudates. A good analogy is perspiration, a human's exudate.
Root exudates are in the form of carbohydrates (including sugars) and
proteins. Amazingly, their presence wakes up, attracts, and grows
specific beneficial bacteria and fungi living in the soil that
subsist on these exudates and the_ cellular material sloughed off as
the plant's root tips grow. All this secretion of_ exudates and
sloughing-off of cells takes place in the rhizosphere, a zone
immediately around the roots, extending out about a tenth of an
inch, or a couple of millimeters (1 millimeter = 1/25 inch). The
rhizosphere, which can look_ like a jelly or jam under the electron
microscope, contains a constantly changing mix of soil organisms,
including bacteria, fungi, nematodes, protozoa, and_ even larger
organisms. All this "life" competes for the exudates in the
rhizosphere, or its water or mineral content.

At the bottom of the soil food web are bacteria and fungi, which are
attracted to and consume plant root exudates. In turn, they attract
and are eaten _by bigger microbes, specifically nematodes and
protozoa (remember the _amoebae, paramecia, flagellates, and
ciliates you should have studied in biology?), who eat bacteria and
fungi (primarily for carbon) to fuel their metabolic_ functions.
Anything they don't need is excreted as wastes, which plant roots
are _readily able to absorb as nutrients. How convenient that this
production of_ plant nutrients takes place right in the rhizosphere,
the site of root-nutrient_ absorption. At the center of any viable
soil food web are plants. Plants control the food_ web for their own
benefit, an amazing fact that is too little understood and_ surely
not appreciated by gardeners who are constantly interfering with
Nature's system. Studies indicate that individual plants can control
the numbers_ and the different kinds of fungi and bacteria attracted
to the rhizosphere by the exudates they produce. During different
times of the growing season, populations of rhizosphere bacteria and
fungi wax and wane, depending on the nutrient needs of the plant and
the exudates it produces.

Soil bacteria and fungi are like small bags of fertilizer, retaining
in their_ bodies nitrogen and other nutrients they gain from root
exudates and other _organic matter (such as those sloughed-off
root-tip cells). Carrying on the _analogy, soil protozoa and
nematodes act as "fertilizer spreaders" by releasing ,_the nutrients
locked up in the bacteria and fungi "fertilizer bags." The nematodes
and protozoa in the soil come along and eat the bacteria and fungi
in the,_ rhizosphere. They digest what they need to survive and
excrete excess carbon_ and other nutrients as waste.

Left to their own devices, then, plants produce exudates that attract
fungi_ and bacteria (and, ultimately, nematodes and protozoa); their
survival depends on the interplay between these microbes. It is a
completely natural system, the very same one that has fueled plants
since they evolved. Soil life provides the nutrients needed for plant
life, and plants initiate and fuel the cycle_ by producing exudates.

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1

"Gardening adds years to your life and life to your years." - Anon

===

Sound advice me thinks.

Cross-Eyed Mary 4:09 Jethro Tull Aqualung

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

Actually , more detailed than I really expected ... and once I've
incorporated some organic matter into this poor excuse for soil I have ,
I'll put the tiller away . This area has been in grass and weeds for years
. The soil is heavily compacted , and has quite a bit of clay . Once it's
prepared , I'll be following (more or less) Ruth Stout's methods .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !



Hi , Snag, I just wanted to say Hi. , Because I started out last year with
Ruth Stouts books in hand. To control weed issues. And have less work. So
I put down the hay and straw and ground cover and overall I've had good
success. Id be very interested in what you think of Ruth Stouts garden
philosophy. And if you read more then her first book. Because I'm still
using the hay as mulch

Diesel.

DogDiesel wrote:


Hi , Snag, I just wanted to say Hi. , Because I started out last
year with Ruth Stouts books in hand. To control weed issues. And
have less work. So I put down the hay and straw and ground cover and
overall I've had good success. Id be very interested in what you
think of Ruth Stouts garden philosophy. And if you read more then her
first book. Because I'm still using the hay as mulch

Diesel.

I used her (first , apparently) book way back in the early 80's , didn't
realize she's written more . I just like the idea of using organic material
to control weeds , which also ends up enriching the soil .

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

You think??
hmmmm........
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 7:09 pm, "Thos" wrote:
Actually , more detailed than I really expected ... and once I've
incorporated some organic matter into this poor excuse for soil I have ,
I'll put the tiller away . This area has been in grass and weeds for years
.
The soil is heavily compacted , and has quite a bit of clay . Once it's
prepared , I'll be following (more or less) Ruth Stout's methods

Yes, far mor information than you need, but if you spend any time in this
group you'll find that to be the norm with some. They have way too much
time on their hands and take themselves way to seriously. If you have
worms
like that, you're off to a good start. I'll offer you the same advice I've
given here prviously. I suggest you look at;

www.dirtdoctor.com

Not a method of one man, but a compilation of techniques and tips from
people who actually use them. They are all organic. Take a look and see
what you think. I'm not affiliated with the website in any way.
Good luck with your new garden and have fun!

Yes but bill without a net wrote so much, he must know what he is
yacking about!

"Snag" wrote in message
...
DogDiesel wrote:


Hi , Snag, I just wanted to say Hi. , Because I started out last
year with Ruth Stouts books in hand. To control weed issues. And
have less work. So I put down the hay and straw and ground cover and
overall I've had good success. Id be very interested in what you
think of Ruth Stouts garden philosophy. And if you read more then her
first book. Because I'm still using the hay as mulch

Diesel.

I used her (first , apparently) book way back in the early 80's , didn't
realize she's written more . I just like the idea of using organic
material to control weeds , which also ends up enriching the soil .

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !


Exactly. Well then you did like me . Use the first book. My issue was
morning glories, which in her next books kind of pointed out some flaws in
her first book. Such as morning glories and switch grass and a couple other
weeds wouldn't get stopped by deep mulch. But nevertheless its still
relevant as mulch gardening is mulch gardening. Billy posted the book
below and its a more or less an updated mulch book gardening book. Think
advanced Ruth stout. Or how Ruth stout would build a layered mulch garden.
But its nowhere near as fun to read as Ruth's books. Her writing style is
at least 75% of the fun. You might want to find it somehow, or her later
books. even if its library. .


Lasagna (No Dig) Gardening, a.k.a. Sheet
Mulching.