About cover crops ...

I'll inevitably have a some sections of my raised beds
empty now and then, in-between spring and fall crops
especially.

I'd like to use a cover crop in summer, and again in late
fall and through the winter.

Turning the cover crops under would need to be done with
hand tools, but I'd be doing only a small area at one
time.

From what I've read, buckwheat is a good cover crop for
summer, and annual rye for winter. I can buy them very
cheaply at local farm supply stores.

Does anyone have experience with these? Unforeseen problems
to warn me about? Other recommendations?

Thanks.

Pat

On Mon, 05 May 2003 10:08:52 -0400, Pat Meadows
wrote:



About cover crops ...

I'll inevitably have a some sections of my raised beds
empty now and then, in-between spring and fall crops
especially.

I'd like to use a cover crop in summer, and again in late
fall and through the winter.

Turning the cover crops under would need to be done with
hand tools, but I'd be doing only a small area at one
time.

From what I've read, buckwheat is a good cover crop for
summer, and annual rye for winter. I can buy them very
cheaply at local farm supply stores.

Does anyone have experience with these? Unforeseen problems
to warn me about? Other recommendations?

Thanks.

Pat

I had to have our old veggie garden torn out because it was filled
with very narrow concrete paths and was lower than the surrounding
soil, which caused flooding every time it rained heavily, which is far
too often here in south Louisiana. The machine used to remove the
concrete also removed all of the improved soil, so I was left with a
pit of very poor subsoil. I had three large dump truck loads brought
in of what is sold here as top soil, but is really just common nasty
dirt filled with weed seeds. The area wound up about the same level as
the surrounding ground, but I also dug a ditch all around to prevent
flooding. I couldn't do any more work in the garden area the first
year, so it became covered in weeds, many taller than I am. After I
pulled and composted all of the weeds, I spread ground limestone and
gypsum (our native soil is almost totally lacking in calcium and is
acidic) and a starter fertilizer and sowed Annual Rye at the highest
recommended rate. It grew very well through the winter, and I tilled
it in in early spring. At that point I had other things to do and
couldn't continue working in the garden for a month or so. I expected
it all to turn into weed heaven, so when nothing sprouted I was very
surprised. It turns out (according to the LSU AgCenter) that AR is an
allelopath that produces a seed-sprouting inhibitor. The tilled and
uncovered garden remained almost entirely weed free, except for a few
perennials that grew from root pieces.

After more tilling and raking and shovelling I now have half of the 25
by 30 feet area worked into raised beds, which I am gradually
enriching with screened compost. Because of AR's reputation as an
allelopath I've been reluctant to sow seeds directly, so most of what
I plan to put in the garden I've started indoors, but I need to get
some snap beans planted so I'll just have to risk their not sprouting.
LSU's AgCenter doesn't say how long the sprouting inhibitor lasts. I
guess I'll just have to find out on my own.

The AR and calcium sources (and fertilizer) have done a great job of
improving the dirt, but it will be some time before it can properly be
called soil. I'm gradually working lots of (cold) screened compost
into the beds, which will eventually result in really good
vegetable-growing soil, but its lots of hard work (all by hand,
including the screening) and goes slowly.

I've left half of the garden flat and unditched and bedded (but like
the rest of the garden covered with mulch), and plan to sow it in a
cover crop, probably buckwheat if I can find it locally. I agree that
it sounds like the best cover for summer.

As for problems with Annual Rye, besides the sprouting inhibition, I
have it coming up throughout the yard, apparently tracked there by my
shoes. That eventually won't be a problem because our summer heat will
kill it (I know from having overseeded lawns for winter in the past),
but I've read that in some areas of California AR has established
itself in the wild and is displacing native plants. It may perform
similarly elsewhere as well, but I couldn't find anything about that
on the Net.

I doubt you'll have much trouble turning AR under by hand,
particularly if you can cut it back to stubble before you do. I was
able to mow mine several times, but once the ground was too wet to
support the mower so I used a string trimmer, which worked quite well.
Some (very few) of the clumps of stubble still appear almost whole
when I fork in the compost, but all of the leaves have broken down
without a trace remaining - in fact it took only two or three weeks
for them to disappear.

One last point - LSU recommends trying marigolds and other summer
flowering 'annuals' broadcast in open areas of beds as a cover crop. I
can buy marigold seed in bulk locally, so I might try that if I need a
living cover within the beds. It supposedly helps to suppress
nematodes, although I don't know it they are a problem here yet.

Best wishes,
Harold

(Anyone wishing to send me email will have to edit the return address.
I apologize for the inconvenience, which has been made necessary by
the huge increase in unsolicited commercial emails and other unwanted
scams.)

On Mon, 05 May 2003 11:38:35 -0500, Harold Olivier
wrote:

large snip

Sounds like a mammoth job! Wow.


I've left half of the garden flat and unditched and bedded (but like
the rest of the garden covered with mulch), and plan to sow it in a
cover crop, probably buckwheat if I can find it locally. I agree that
it sounds like the best cover for summer.

If you can't find it locally, you can buy it online from
Johnny's Selected Seeds:

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/index.html

In the quantities needed for a home garden, it's cheap. I
just called our local farm and feed store (Agway - I think
they're called 'Southern States' in the south) and they sell
buckwheat for 56 cents/pound.

As for problems with Annual Rye, besides the sprouting inhibition, I

snip

One last point - LSU recommends trying marigolds and other summer
flowering 'annuals' broadcast in open areas of beds as a cover crop. I
can buy marigold seed in bulk locally, so I might try that if I need a
living cover within the beds. It supposedly helps to suppress
nematodes, although I don't know it they are a problem here yet.


I didn't know about the sprouting inhibition of rye. I
think I'll not use it for that reason.

Flowering annuals would make a nice cover crop. I don't
know if I can buy marigold seed in bulk - I'll look.

Thanks for all the information.

Pat

"Pat Meadows" wrote in message
...


As for problems with Annual Rye, besides the sprouting inhibition, I


Apparently, the inhibition only lasts a few weeks, and after that seeds can
be directly sown.

On Mon, 05 May 2003 13:16:20 -0400, Pat Meadows
wrote:

On Mon, 05 May 2003 11:38:35 -0500, Harold Olivier
wrote:

large snip

Sounds like a mammoth job! Wow.

I've left half of the garden flat and unditched and bedded (but like
the rest of the garden covered with mulch), and plan to sow it in a
cover crop, probably buckwheat if I can find it locally. I agree that
it sounds like the best cover for summer.

If you can't find it locally, you can buy it online from
Johnny's Selected Seeds:

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/index.html

So does Pinetree, at a somewhat better price:
http://www.superseeds.com/Covercrops.htm
I haven't yet checked with the two local farm and feed stores. I'll do
that tomorrow, on a trip to town to see my wife's doctor. If they do
have buckwheat it will probably be cheaper than even Pinetree.

In the quantities needed for a home garden, it's cheap. I
just called our local farm and feed store (Agway - I think
they're called 'Southern States' in the south) and they sell
buckwheat for 56 cents/pound.

Great price! I only need enough to cover about 350 sq ft, so one pound
ought to be enough. Even at Pinetree's price that small an amount is
cheap.
..
As for problems with Annual Rye, besides the sprouting inhibition, I

snip

One last point - LSU recommends trying marigolds and other summer
flowering 'annuals' broadcast in open areas of beds as a cover crop. I
can buy marigold seed in bulk locally, so I might try that if I need a
living cover within the beds. It supposedly helps to suppress
nematodes, although I don't know it they are a problem here yet.


I didn't know about the sprouting inhibition of rye. I
think I'll not use it for that reason.
I found the first sprouted seedling late today. I don't know how long
its been since I tilled the rye under. I used to keep a journal but
now I use a digital camera to photograph changes in the yard and
garden. It is lots less work getting the information recorded, but it
can take a while to find the information I need because I need to sift
through lots of images. Ah, here it is. I had the rye tilled in by
04/02, and completed the beds and mulched on 04/20. We haven't had
rain for something like three weeks, and I'm sure the mulch has helped
to suppress seed sprouting, so today's seedling is almost certainly
not the first that would have shown up if I had watered and left the
soil bare. It looks as though the inhibition doesn't last too long
after all.

Flowering annuals would make a nice cover crop. I don't
know if I can buy marigold seed in bulk - I'll look.

Thanks for all the information.

Pat
I ought to have said that I *think* I can buy marigold seeds in bulk
at the older of our two farm/feed stores. When we first moved here
from New Orleans 30 years ago that store sold a few different flower
seeds (I remember marigold, zinnia, and petunias, but there were
probably a few others) loose in quantities from a quarter ounce up, at
prices way below the packaged seeds, but I don't know if they still
do. I'll find out tomorrow.

Harold

On Mon, 05 May 2003 13:16:20 -0400, Pat Meadows
wrote in part:



Flowering annuals would make a nice cover crop. I don't
know if I can buy marigold seed in bulk - I'll look.


I found out today that my old favorite feed and seed store doesn't
carry many bulk seeds anymore, and no flower seeds in bulk. But I did
find a source for flower seeds in bulk on the Web. I know nothing
about this company, but I do like their prices and varieties - I've
got my eye on both the low growing marigold and the annual wildflower
mix - so I'll probably give them a try:
http://www.flowersoul.com/flowerseeds.html

Harold

On Tue, 06 May 2003 22:04:07 -0500, Harold Olivier
wrote:



I found out today that my old favorite feed and seed store doesn't
carry many bulk seeds anymore, and no flower seeds in bulk. But I did
find a source for flower seeds in bulk on the Web. I know nothing
about this company, but I do like their prices and varieties - I've
got my eye on both the low growing marigold and the annual wildflower
mix - so I'll probably give them a try:
http://www.flowersoul.com/flowerseeds.html


Interesting. Thanks.

I'll stick with the buckwheat for now, for economy's sake.
But maybe I could do the marigolds in a future year. I'm
going to have to make my gardening not only be
self-supporting but also show a profit.

I hope to do this next year: this year, we are putting most
of our efforts on getting equipped and set-up (raised beds,
cold frame, hoophouse). It's a lot of work, but mostly
one-time only work. If we survive, next year will be a
cinch.

Pat

But maybe I could do the marigolds in a future year.

I don't know who posted this advice but my question is do you till them
under before they set seeds, or do you plan on having them come up next
year ?

I've used both buckwheat and annual rye to improve my soil. I planted the
buckwheat in the spring. I let the bees have the flowers for a few days and
then tilled it under before it set seed.

I immediately followed with the annual rye, which winterkills in Zone 6B.
No problem there.

The next year I did have a stray buckwheat seed sprout here and there, but
it was absolutely no problem. They are easy to pull, and I didn't get many
of them.

You get immediate weed control, and you are doing something good for your
soil. If you are willing to take your time, you can do it with hand tools.
Worked great for me!

Cya! Wacko

"Brian" wrote in message
...



But maybe I could do the marigolds in a future year.

I don't know who posted this advice but my question is do you till them
under before they set seeds, or do you plan on having them come up next
year ?

On Wed, 07 May 2003 23:04:09 GMT, "Wacko!"
wrote:


The next year I did have a stray buckwheat seed sprout here and there, but
it was absolutely no problem. They are easy to pull, and I didn't get many
of them.

You get immediate weed control, and you are doing something good for your
soil. If you are willing to take your time, you can do it with hand tools.
Worked great for me!


Thanks. Sounds good. We'll drive up to the farm and feed
store this weekend (it's nearby) and get the buckwheat and
annual rye.

Pat

Crimson clover is also a great cover crop (fixes nitrogen), and
it's quite nice to look at too.

In article ,
Pat Meadows wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2003 23:04:09 GMT, "Wacko!"
wrote:


The next year I did have a stray buckwheat seed sprout here and there, but
it was absolutely no problem. They are easy to pull, and I didn't get many
of them.

You get immediate weed control, and you are doing something good for your
soil. If you are willing to take your time, you can do it with hand tools.
Worked great for me!


Thanks. Sounds good. We'll drive up to the farm and feed
store this weekend (it's nearby) and get the buckwheat and
annual rye.

Pat