Knowing that many seeds these days are treated with neonics , I'm
wondering if that stuff is also present in the plants grown from seeds from
the original plant . And how many generations does it persist if in fact it
does . I like to save my seeds because I believe that seeds from a plant
grown here will be more acclimatized to this area . Second and 3rd gen seeds
even more so ...
--
Snag

Terry Coombs said:
Knowing that many seeds these days are treated with neonics , I'm
wondering if that stuff is also present in the plants grown from seeds from
the original plant . And how many generations does it persist if in fact it
does . I like to save my seeds because I believe that seeds from a plant
grown here will be more acclimatized to this area . Second and 3rd gen
seeds even more so ...

As far as I know, the biggest problem with seeds treated with neonicotinoids
is in large scale agriculture, because of the amount of dust released when the
seeds are handled and planted.

The amount of the chemical in a single seed vs. the whole plant that grows
from it and the fruit and seeds of that plant is not something a home
gardener need worry much about. You take bigger risks each day walking
through your house and out to the garden, driving a car, or crossing a street
on foot.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Yes, swooping is bad."

email valid but not regularly monitored

Pat Kiewicz wrote:
Terry Coombs said:
Knowing that many seeds these days are treated with neonics , I'm
wondering if that stuff is also present in the plants grown from
seeds from the original plant . And how many generations does it
persist if in fact it does . I like to save my seeds because I
believe that seeds from a plant grown here will be more acclimatized
to this area . Second and 3rd gen seeds even more so ...

As far as I know, the biggest problem with seeds treated with
neonicotinoids is in large scale agriculture, because of the amount
of dust released when the seeds are handled and planted.

The amount of the chemical in a single seed vs. the whole plant that
grows from it and the fruit and seeds of that plant is not something
a home gardener need worry much about. You take bigger risks each
day walking through your house and out to the garden, driving a car,
or crossing a street on foot.

My concern is not for me , but for the bees ... we have one hive so far ,
but it'll be split in the spring assuming it is strong enough and our goal
is 5-8 hives total . Fortunately there is very little monocropping in our
area , no soybeans , rice , etc .

--
Snag

On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 1:27:35 PM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
Pat Kiewicz wrote:

Terry Coombs said:

Knowing that many seeds these days are treated with neonics , I'm

wondering if that stuff is also present in the plants grown from

seeds from the original plant . And how many generations does it

persist if in fact it does . I like to save my seeds because I

believe that seeds from a plant grown here will be more acclimatized

to this area . Second and 3rd gen seeds even more so ...



As far as I know, the biggest problem with seeds treated with

neonicotinoids is in large scale agriculture, because of the amount

of dust released when the seeds are handled and planted.



The amount of the chemical in a single seed vs. the whole plant that

grows from it and the fruit and seeds of that plant is not something

a home gardener need worry much about. You take bigger risks each

day walking through your house and out to the garden, driving a car,

or crossing a street on foot.



My concern is not for me , but for the bees ... we have one hive so far ,

but it'll be split in the spring assuming it is strong enough and our goal

is 5-8 hives total . Fortunately there is very little monocropping in our

area , no soybeans , rice , etc .



--

Snag

Be careful of the Seven also. It is particularly deadly to bees.

On 8/13/2014 9:14 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Knowing that many seeds these days are treated with neonics , I'm
wondering if that stuff is also present in the plants grown from seeds from
the original plant . And how many generations does it persist if in fact it
does . I like to save my seeds because I believe that seeds from a plant
grown here will be more acclimatized to this area . Second and 3rd gen seeds
even more so ...


I'd anticipate oxidative and photolytic degradation. Pesticides with
long lives like chlordane have been banned today.

Terry Coombs wrote:
Knowing that many seeds these days are treated with neonics , I'm
wondering if that stuff is also present in the plants grown from
seeds from the original plant .

No. The problem with insecticides is when they get into the environment in
sufficient quantity to be ingested by beneficial organisms, such as bees,
and so to kill or damage them . This cannot happen here. The whole idea of
'organic' seeds is rather religous muddy thinking to me.

And how many generations does it
persist if in fact it does . I like to save my seeds because I
believe that seeds from a plant grown here will be more acclimatized
to this area . Second and 3rd gen seeds even more so ...

Neither individual seeds nor plants acclimatise in a way that is transmitted
to their offspring (this is the discredited Lamarkism). However, if you
always breed from those that perform best in your conditions you can gain an
advantage because you are then altering the composition of the gene pool in
a way that future generations will suit the conditions (this is Darwinian
selection). In enough generations you could form your own cultivar. This
has been the basis of selective plant breeding for thousands of years even
before people understood how it worked.

--
David

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A better world requires a daily struggle
against those who would mislead us.

Terry Coombs said:

My concern is not for me , but for the bees ... we have one hive so far ,
but it'll be split in the spring assuming it is strong enough and our goal
is 5-8 hives total . Fortunately there is very little monocropping in our
area , no soybeans , rice , etc .

You mentioned seed saving, so I figured you were concerned for yourself.

The big risk to bees from treated seeds is due to the dust generated
spreading to bee forage nearby and actual applications of neonics in
quantity to plants, particularly orchards (as a control for beetles that attack
fruit) and lawns (to control grubs). It's also used to inject landscape trees
(the only actual verified control for emerald ash borer, for example).

If your neighbors' are treating for grubs, that might be an issue, particularly
if their lawns contain white clover or they have extensive flower gardens that
could have taken up the grub control.


--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Yes, swooping is bad."

email valid but not regularly monitored

Frank said:
On 8/13/2014 9:14 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Knowing that many seeds these days are treated with neonics...

I'd anticipate oxidative and photolytic degradation. Pesticides with
long lives like chlordane have been banned today.

The thing is, the neonicotinoids act systemically and are thus protected
from degredation by being inside plant tissue. They were designed to
be taken up by plants and have a fairly long half-life in soil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid

OTOH, persistence from a few plants grown from treated seeds, especially
in saved seeds through several generations, would not be a problem.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Yes, swooping is bad."

email valid but not regularly monitored