George Shirley wrote:
....
In addition to the vegetable beds we have a fig, a kumquat, and a pear
tree, all producing well after four years of growth. Do need to replace
the growing medium in the raised beds though. That means a tarp to hold
the new medium and toss it several times to get it all mixed properly. I
think we might be getting a bit to old for that too. Might have to call
in the 200 + lbs grandsons to do the tossing.

replace? that sounds like a project for sure.
why not amend on top and let the worms, gravity
and rains do the work for you instead? might be
worth a trial...


songbird

On 8/29/2016 8:00 PM, songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
...
In addition to the vegetable beds we have a fig, a kumquat, and a pear
tree, all producing well after four years of growth. Do need to replace
the growing medium in the raised beds though. That means a tarp to hold
the new medium and toss it several times to get it all mixed properly. I
think we might be getting a bit to old for that too. Might have to call
in the 200 + lbs grandsons to do the tossing.

replace? that sounds like a project for sure.
why not amend on top and let the worms, gravity
and rains do the work for you instead? might be
worth a trial...


songbird

Tried that, the compost part of the "soil" just eventually disappears.
This is the Square Foot Garden mix, peat moss, vermiculite, compost.

It's easier for the two of us old geezers to shovel the mix out on the
tarp and then shake it back and forth to mix it totally. The beds are
only six inches deep by four feet wide by eight feet long, the big one
is a double. We also put in kitchen vegetable scraps occasionally,
hoping to pull some worms into the mix. We finally, after three years
are seeing some earthworms in the beds. Took their own sweet time. I
think it's because we have been potholing a good bit of stuff from the
compost bucket rather than put it into the composter. We will continue
with that one.

On 8/29/2016 7:57 PM, songbird wrote:
The Cook wrote:

hi, glad to see you back writing.

...
Winter is time to let the back rest and recover. It is the time to
read seed catalogues and gardening books, take inventory of my seeds
and preserved foods and plan for the Spring. Since I have a
greenhouse I start several things there as early as January. By
February I am starting many of my summer crops there.

Before I got the greenhouse I started many plants in the house with
grow lights.

we keep it too cool in the house to start a lot
of plants, plus very limited on space, so i am
glad the local greenhouse will do those for us
(mainly tomatoes, peppers, onions and cucumbers).


Gardening or farming is not just a spring and summer project. Winter
is the time to plan.

i call that daydreaming. what i plan may not
happen as i can get overruled. like this year i did
not really want to plant a ton of tomatoes, but we
put in over 20 plants... and squash, i thought only
one squash patch, we have three. beans, as usual i
was hoping to plant several gardens worth, only
have one. etc.


Do you preserve any of your produce? I can, freeze and dehydrate.
That takes us though the winter or longer.

we can and freeze as much as we possibly can do.

this past weekend we took inventory and Ma has already
decided which things she will give away to friends and
family for Christmas gifts. this way we don't have to
rearrange the pantry yet again. 15 cases will be given
away.
Wow! That's a lot of jars, I hope they bring them back. Our kids and
grands have strict instructions to bring those jars back CLEAN! So far
it has worked. We have canning jars that are probably 50 years old but
they keep getting filled until the day they break.

we're about halfway through the tomatoes and have
beets, dry beans, squash, onions and red peppers to
eat or preserve.

right now for the red peppers i'm voting on eating
fresh, i love them fried up until they get a little
burn on them in spots.


songbird

George Shirley wrote:
....
Wow! That's a lot of jars, I hope they bring them back. Our kids and
grands have strict instructions to bring those jars back CLEAN! So far
it has worked. We have canning jars that are probably 50 years old but
they keep getting filled until the day they break.

we have various people looking and giving us
jars, but they are often not as nice as the
new ones. we've bought two cases so far when
we ran out, but that expense will be reimbursed
by the person who gets those jars. we try to
keep our eyes open for sales too.

we're trying to give away the wide-mouth jars
and odd sizes to people we don't usually get them
back from.

so far this season we have had one break on us.
this is the first time in all the years we've had
one break. figured it might have gotten cracked
and we didn't notice it. once in a while we get
one given to us that is chipped or cracked and if
it is really old we'll keep it for the bottle
collection, but not use it for canning, otherwise
off to the recycling it goes.

i would actually like to keep a lot more for a
bottle collection that are unique or the very
old and heavy ones. just don't have the space
here for them all... so just reuse 'em. figure
some people we give them to might keep them for
themselves or whatever. ah well...

we've also put some in recycling that were not
standard small lid sized jars. dunno where they
came from. looked like old mayo jars.


songbird

George Shirley wrote:
songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
...
In addition to the vegetable beds we have a fig, a kumquat, and a pear
tree, all producing well after four years of growth. Do need to replace
the growing medium in the raised beds though. That means a tarp to hold
the new medium and toss it several times to get it all mixed properly. I
think we might be getting a bit to old for that too. Might have to call
in the 200 + lbs grandsons to do the tossing.

replace? that sounds like a project for sure.
why not amend on top and let the worms, gravity
and rains do the work for you instead? might be
worth a trial...

Tried that, the compost part of the "soil" just eventually disappears.
This is the Square Foot Garden mix, peat moss, vermiculite, compost.

you must also be fertilizing?

and yeah, hard to keep organic matter in the
soils in warmer areas. some clay can slow the
rate of loss down.

however, what i meant was that if the compost is
disappearing then add that on top and it will get
mixed in eventually as you plant. especially with
that shallow of a bed. i guess i'm lazy that ways.
think plants and worms can figure it out well
enough without me messing it up.

are the beds isolated from the subsoil clay you
have in place? like by a weed barrier fabric or
sheet plastic?


It's easier for the two of us old geezers to shovel the mix out on the
tarp and then shake it back and forth to mix it totally. The beds are
only six inches deep by four feet wide by eight feet long, the big one
is a double. We also put in kitchen vegetable scraps occasionally,
hoping to pull some worms into the mix. We finally, after three years
are seeing some earthworms in the beds. Took their own sweet time. I
think it's because we have been potholing a good bit of stuff from the
compost bucket rather than put it into the composter. We will continue
with that one.

i hope they will continue to live there. it's
a good sign when the soil can support a diverse
community of critters.


songbird

On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 00:39:16 -0400, songbird
wrote:

George Shirley wrote:
...
Wow! That's a lot of jars, I hope they bring them back. Our kids and
grands have strict instructions to bring those jars back CLEAN! So far
it has worked. We have canning jars that are probably 50 years old but
they keep getting filled until the day they break.

we have various people looking and giving us
jars, but they are often not as nice as the
new ones. we've bought two cases so far when
we ran out, but that expense will be reimbursed
by the person who gets those jars. we try to
keep our eyes open for sales too.

we're trying to give away the wide-mouth jars
and odd sizes to people we don't usually get them
back from.

so far this season we have had one break on us.
this is the first time in all the years we've had
one break. figured it might have gotten cracked
and we didn't notice it. once in a while we get
one given to us that is chipped or cracked and if
it is really old we'll keep it for the bottle
collection, but not use it for canning, otherwise
off to the recycling it goes.

i would actually like to keep a lot more for a
bottle collection that are unique or the very
old and heavy ones. just don't have the space
here for them all... so just reuse 'em. figure
some people we give them to might keep them for
themselves or whatever. ah well...

we've also put some in recycling that were not
standard small lid sized jars. dunno where they
came from. looked like old mayo jars.


songbird

I am working on getting rid of a bunch of canning jars. Found the
perfect way. Our AC man's son is a beekeeper. Gave him a load of
jars this summer. Got a quart of honey in return and promise(?) of at
least one each year.

Glad to get rid of the jars and am looking forward to the honey.



--
USA
North Carolina Foothills
USDA Zone 7a

On 8/29/2016 11:39 PM, songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
...
Wow! That's a lot of jars, I hope they bring them back. Our kids and
grands have strict instructions to bring those jars back CLEAN! So far
it has worked. We have canning jars that are probably 50 years old but
they keep getting filled until the day they break.

we have various people looking and giving us
jars, but they are often not as nice as the
new ones. we've bought two cases so far when
we ran out, but that expense will be reimbursed
by the person who gets those jars. we try to
keep our eyes open for sales too.

we're trying to give away the wide-mouth jars
and odd sizes to people we don't usually get them
back from.

so far this season we have had one break on us.
this is the first time in all the years we've had
one break. figured it might have gotten cracked
and we didn't notice it. once in a while we get
one given to us that is chipped or cracked and if
it is really old we'll keep it for the bottle
collection, but not use it for canning, otherwise
off to the recycling it goes.

i would actually like to keep a lot more for a
bottle collection that are unique or the very
old and heavy ones. just don't have the space
here for them all... so just reuse 'em. figure
some people we give them to might keep them for
themselves or whatever. ah well...

we've also put some in recycling that were not
standard small lid sized jars. dunno where they
came from. looked like old mayo jars.


songbird

I have a large number of Atlas jars with the standard small lid. Ran
into the first bunch at a Pentecostal Church sale, five cents each. I
carry a standard small lid with me when I go fossiking just to ensure
they work. They were originally REAL jars from a spaghetti sauce, can't
remember the name. They're still around but changed the neck of the jar
so it is no longer of use for canning. They're not quite a quart but are
really good for pickles and jellies. I'm looking at about six cases of
pints, a couple of cases of quarts and a case of half gallon jars right
now. Plus a bunch of little 1/4. 1/8, etc. jars that have come in over
the years.

I accuse my lovely wife of hoarding and she smiles and mentions my
canning pantry. Touche!

On 8/30/2016 5:33 AM, The Cook wrote:
On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 00:39:16 -0400, songbird
wrote:

George Shirley wrote:
...
Wow! That's a lot of jars, I hope they bring them back. Our kids and
grands have strict instructions to bring those jars back CLEAN! So far
it has worked. We have canning jars that are probably 50 years old but
they keep getting filled until the day they break.

we have various people looking and giving us
jars, but they are often not as nice as the
new ones. we've bought two cases so far when
we ran out, but that expense will be reimbursed
by the person who gets those jars. we try to
keep our eyes open for sales too.

we're trying to give away the wide-mouth jars
and odd sizes to people we don't usually get them
back from.

so far this season we have had one break on us.
this is the first time in all the years we've had
one break. figured it might have gotten cracked
and we didn't notice it. once in a while we get
one given to us that is chipped or cracked and if
it is really old we'll keep it for the bottle
collection, but not use it for canning, otherwise
off to the recycling it goes.

i would actually like to keep a lot more for a
bottle collection that are unique or the very
old and heavy ones. just don't have the space
here for them all... so just reuse 'em. figure
some people we give them to might keep them for
themselves or whatever. ah well...

we've also put some in recycling that were not
standard small lid sized jars. dunno where they
came from. looked like old mayo jars.


songbird

I am working on getting rid of a bunch of canning jars. Found the
perfect way. Our AC man's son is a beekeeper. Gave him a load of
jars this summer. Got a quart of honey in return and promise(?) of at
least one each year.

Glad to get rid of the jars and am looking forward to the honey.



You're giving up the trade Susan? I will be 77 the 23rd of September and
am slowing down a bit but not giving up yet. How many folks have
disappeared from rec.food.preserving over the last 20 years?

I've offered to teach the trade to our elder grands but they don't seem
interested. Two of them don't even garden, even after all our work to
teach them how to preserve their own home grown food.

On 8/29/2016 11:52 PM, songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote:
...
In addition to the vegetable beds we have a fig, a kumquat, and a pear
tree, all producing well after four years of growth. Do need to replace
the growing medium in the raised beds though. That means a tarp to hold
the new medium and toss it several times to get it all mixed properly. I
think we might be getting a bit to old for that too. Might have to call
in the 200 + lbs grandsons to do the tossing.

replace? that sounds like a project for sure.
why not amend on top and let the worms, gravity
and rains do the work for you instead? might be
worth a trial...

Tried that, the compost part of the "soil" just eventually disappears.
This is the Square Foot Garden mix, peat moss, vermiculite, compost.

you must also be fertilizing?
I don't, but wife loves Miracle Grow.

and yeah, hard to keep organic matter in the
soils in warmer areas. some clay can slow the
rate of loss down.
Our "native" dirt here is two inches of sand over five feet of Houston
gumbo clay, put in at build to raise the houses above the minimum flood
zone, saves on $$$ but is very bad for gardening, hence the raised beds.

however, what i meant was that if the compost is
disappearing then add that on top and it will get
mixed in eventually as you plant. especially with
that shallow of a bed. i guess i'm lazy that ways.
think plants and worms can figure it out well
enough without me messing it up.

are the beds isolated from the subsoil clay you
have in place? like by a weed barrier fabric or
sheet plastic?
Yup, but the barrier fabric is pretty much gone by now, has been in
place since early 2013 and was intended to rot away eventually.


It's easier for the two of us old geezers to shovel the mix out on the
tarp and then shake it back and forth to mix it totally. The beds are
only six inches deep by four feet wide by eight feet long, the big one
is a double. We also put in kitchen vegetable scraps occasionally,
hoping to pull some worms into the mix. We finally, after three years
are seeing some earthworms in the beds. Took their own sweet time. I
think it's because we have been potholing a good bit of stuff from the
compost bucket rather than put it into the composter. We will continue
with that one.

i hope they will continue to live there. it's
a good sign when the soil can support a diverse
community of critters.


songbird

Yup, we both grew up on small farms, almost always had composting in
place, plus we had large critters for several years and they dropped
enough good stuff on the land that it became very rich. Horses, mules,
cows, goats, etc. Improved grass lands, eaten by large critters then
given back to the earth. In Louisiana we had access to friends who had
large critters and we always had a pickup truck. Go clean out a rain
shed that had two feet of excrement that was aged from two to five
years, take an axe, cut out large chunks, use the hay fork to toss into
truck, repeat many times. Take it home, put the stuff through the wood
chipper and blow it into the garden, Use the tiller to turn it under,
water, plant seeds, jump back as they grow. I miss those days, about the
only big critter poop you can get here is Black Cow in bags and that is
from huge feed lots and no telling what was going through the critters
and into the bags.

On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 07:52:23 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:

On 8/30/2016 5:33 AM, The Cook wrote:
On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 00:39:16 -0400, songbird
wrote:

George Shirley wrote:
...
Wow! That's a lot of jars, I hope they bring them back. Our kids and
grands have strict instructions to bring those jars back CLEAN! So far
it has worked. We have canning jars that are probably 50 years old but
they keep getting filled until the day they break.

we have various people looking and giving us
jars, but they are often not as nice as the
new ones. we've bought two cases so far when
we ran out, but that expense will be reimbursed
by the person who gets those jars. we try to
keep our eyes open for sales too.

we're trying to give away the wide-mouth jars
and odd sizes to people we don't usually get them
back from.

so far this season we have had one break on us.
this is the first time in all the years we've had
one break. figured it might have gotten cracked
and we didn't notice it. once in a while we get
one given to us that is chipped or cracked and if
it is really old we'll keep it for the bottle
collection, but not use it for canning, otherwise
off to the recycling it goes.

i would actually like to keep a lot more for a
bottle collection that are unique or the very
old and heavy ones. just don't have the space
here for them all... so just reuse 'em. figure
some people we give them to might keep them for
themselves or whatever. ah well...

we've also put some in recycling that were not
standard small lid sized jars. dunno where they
came from. looked like old mayo jars.


songbird

I am working on getting rid of a bunch of canning jars. Found the
perfect way. Our AC man's son is a beekeeper. Gave him a load of
jars this summer. Got a quart of honey in return and promise(?) of at
least one each year.

Glad to get rid of the jars and am looking forward to the honey.



You're giving up the trade Susan? I will be 77 the 23rd of September and
am slowing down a bit but not giving up yet. How many folks have
disappeared from rec.food.preserving over the last 20 years?

I've offered to teach the trade to our elder grands but they don't seem
interested. Two of them don't even garden, even after all our work to
teach them how to preserve their own home grown food.


Not giving up, just slowing down after 2 years of medical problems.
Hoping I can get a smaller garden going next year. I still have lots
of jars, many of them still full of food. (food still good and being
used) I looked at my records and about the 3rd year we were here I
set out almost 100 tomato plants. I do keep track of what is on the
shelves and get rid of anything that is too old. Getting harder to
get rid of stuff since older son's wife has a small garden and younger
son has his own garden, freezer and canner.

BTW I'm only 16 months younger that you.
--
USA
North Carolina Foothills
USDA Zone 7a

On 8/30/2016 9:32 AM, The Cook wrote:
On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 07:52:23 -0500, George Shirley
wrote:

On 8/30/2016 5:33 AM, The Cook wrote:
On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 00:39:16 -0400, songbird
wrote:

George Shirley wrote:
...
Wow! That's a lot of jars, I hope they bring them back. Our kids and
grands have strict instructions to bring those jars back CLEAN! So far
it has worked. We have canning jars that are probably 50 years old but
they keep getting filled until the day they break.

we have various people looking and giving us
jars, but they are often not as nice as the
new ones. we've bought two cases so far when
we ran out, but that expense will be reimbursed
by the person who gets those jars. we try to
keep our eyes open for sales too.

we're trying to give away the wide-mouth jars
and odd sizes to people we don't usually get them
back from.

so far this season we have had one break on us.
this is the first time in all the years we've had
one break. figured it might have gotten cracked
and we didn't notice it. once in a while we get
one given to us that is chipped or cracked and if
it is really old we'll keep it for the bottle
collection, but not use it for canning, otherwise
off to the recycling it goes.

i would actually like to keep a lot more for a
bottle collection that are unique or the very
old and heavy ones. just don't have the space
here for them all... so just reuse 'em. figure
some people we give them to might keep them for
themselves or whatever. ah well...

we've also put some in recycling that were not
standard small lid sized jars. dunno where they
came from. looked like old mayo jars.


songbird

I am working on getting rid of a bunch of canning jars. Found the
perfect way. Our AC man's son is a beekeeper. Gave him a load of
jars this summer. Got a quart of honey in return and promise(?) of at
least one each year.

Glad to get rid of the jars and am looking forward to the honey.



You're giving up the trade Susan? I will be 77 the 23rd of September and
am slowing down a bit but not giving up yet. How many folks have
disappeared from rec.food.preserving over the last 20 years?

I've offered to teach the trade to our elder grands but they don't seem
interested. Two of them don't even garden, even after all our work to
teach them how to preserve their own home grown food.


Not giving up, just slowing down after 2 years of medical problems.
Hoping I can get a smaller garden going next year. I still have lots
of jars, many of them still full of food. (food still good and being
used) I looked at my records and about the 3rd year we were here I
set out almost 100 tomato plants. I do keep track of what is on the
shelves and get rid of anything that is too old. Getting harder to
get rid of stuff since older son's wife has a small garden and younger
son has his own garden, freezer and canner.

BTW I'm only 16 months younger that you.

At our ages who quibbles about it! I am very lucky though, over forty
micro-strokes, four major strokes, heart attack, coronary bypass,
multiple stents in heart arteries, etc. I've had everything but small
pox, which my mother had and gave her children immunity. I'm grateful to
be able to love on my great grands and one of those is closing on age 17
so I may be able to see a great great grand before I'm gone. My doctors
read my chart and sometimes just gasp at all the stuff that has beat up
this old body. Sometimes you're just lucky. Miz Anne and I will be
married 57 years in December, we've already beaten the record of our
parents, grandparents, and great grandparents. Thank goodness for modern
medicine, of which I take a lot.

The Cook wrote:
....
I am working on getting rid of a bunch of canning jars. Found the
perfect way. Our AC man's son is a beekeeper. Gave him a load of
jars this summer. Got a quart of honey in return and promise(?) of at
least one each year.

Glad to get rid of the jars and am looking forward to the honey.

that's a nice arrangement.

we've had a few people who used to can who've given
us a lot of jars the past year. which is why we are
ok with passing them along to others without being too
concerned if we get them back.


songbird

The Cook wrote:
....
Not giving up, just slowing down after 2 years of medical problems.
Hoping I can get a smaller garden going next year. I still have lots
of jars, many of them still full of food. (food still good and being
used) I looked at my records and about the 3rd year we were here I
set out almost 100 tomato plants.

we'd need help and machines to keep up with that
many plants!


I do keep track of what is on the
shelves and get rid of anything that is too old. Getting harder to
get rid of stuff since older son's wife has a small garden and younger
son has his own garden, freezer and canner.

but they'll take some jars?


BTW I'm only 16 months younger that you.

you are both about Ma's age. she can run laps
around me health-wise.

be good to yourselves...


songbird

George Shirley wrote:
....
I have a large number of Atlas jars with the standard small lid. Ran
into the first bunch at a Pentecostal Church sale, five cents each. I
carry a standard small lid with me when I go fossiking just to ensure
they work. They were originally REAL jars from a spaghetti sauce, can't
remember the name. They're still around but changed the neck of the jar
so it is no longer of use for canning. They're not quite a quart but are
really good for pickles and jellies. I'm looking at about six cases of
pints, a couple of cases of quarts and a case of half gallon jars right
now. Plus a bunch of little 1/4. 1/8, etc. jars that have come in over
the years.

i've got a bag of odd little sized jars in the closet
that i would use for odds and ends of jam batches, but
now that i'm doing freezer jam and have been happy using
pint jars i hardly even use them any more. and some of
those decorative diamond pattern jars which are too tippy
and i don't like 'em. tried a few minutes ago to talk
Ma into letting me put some tomato juice in them so i
could get rid of them... nope... darn...


I accuse my lovely wife of hoarding and she smiles and mentions my
canning pantry. Touche!

har! i have boxes of old bottles on top of the book-
cases, that i really should just see if anyone wants them
because i've not bothered with them since i put them up
there. some old ink wells are about all i really like and
a few coffin bottles and colored soda water bottles. used
to go with a friend digging for bottles and would help him
scrub them so he'd let me take a few here or there.

that was a long time ago when i was up north.


songbird

George Shirley wrote:
songbird wrote:
....
you must also be fertilizing?
I don't, but wife loves Miracle Grow.

ah, ok.


and yeah, hard to keep organic matter in the
soils in warmer areas. some clay can slow the
rate of loss down.

Our "native" dirt here is two inches of sand over five feet of Houston
gumbo clay, put in at build to raise the houses above the minimum flood
zone, saves on $$$ but is very bad for gardening, hence the raised beds.

that will be where any earthworms will hide from
the heat when it gets too bad out.


however, what i meant was that if the compost is
disappearing then add that on top and it will get
mixed in eventually as you plant. especially with
that shallow of a bed. i guess i'm lazy that ways.
think plants and worms can figure it out well
enough without me messing it up.

are the beds isolated from the subsoil clay you
have in place? like by a weed barrier fabric or
sheet plastic?

Yup, but the barrier fabric is pretty much gone by now, has been in
place since early 2013 and was intended to rot away eventually.

oh, that's ok, at least you have sand and clay if
you ever need it and the worms can get in and out.


i hope they will continue to live there. it's
a good sign when the soil can support a diverse
community of critters.
....
Yup, we both grew up on small farms, almost always had composting in
place, plus we had large critters for several years and they dropped
enough good stuff on the land that it became very rich. Horses, mules,
cows, goats, etc. Improved grass lands, eaten by large critters then
given back to the earth. In Louisiana we had access to friends who had
large critters and we always had a pickup truck. Go clean out a rain
shed that had two feet of excrement that was aged from two to five
years, take an axe, cut out large chunks, use the hay fork to toss into
truck, repeat many times. Take it home, put the stuff through the wood
chipper and blow it into the garden, Use the tiller to turn it under,
water, plant seeds, jump back as they grow. I miss those days, about the
only big critter poop you can get here is Black Cow in bags and that is
from huge feed lots and no telling what was going through the critters
and into the bags.

i know. i don't buy the stuff any more, but i did
try a few bags when i first put in the strawberries.
decided i could grow/harvest green manure crops for
a fraction of the expense and run it through the worm
bins.

i envy younger people who can handle larger animals
and have the inclination. you can do a lot of regenerative
grazing on beat up farmland to bring it back to prime
condition, run chickens through right after you graze
and the chickens will pick through the cow plops to
get the fly grubs, and scatter the plops around.

in those winter sheds, this guy takes whole shelled
out corn and sprinkles it in there once in a while and
then as the pile builds up he doesn't do anything until
after the cows come out of the shed and then he puts
his pigs in there and they root through it all and
turn it looking for the corn. i think that's a
great idea for stirring compost... using an animal
to do it.

for me, worms are about as far as i can go for now.
eventually i hope i can do some quail here just to
get a population back that has been eradicated.


songbird