(Art Sackett) wrote in message ...
M. Tiefert wrote:

cilanthro

VILE smell, and coriander seed when it's done

Not everyone perceives the smell as vile.

You can say that again. I make my salsa cruda by the gallon (about one
a week, more if there's company) and it's just not the same without a
couple hands full of cilanto in it.

I have heard that certain people lack an enzyme in their mouths (or
have an extra one, or something like that), the result of which is
that cilantro has a disagreeable "soapy" taste. My friend said she
had heard the same thing, and that something like one in five people
has this problem. It makes sense on one hand, but on the other hand
I, as a cilantro-hater, also find the aroma repugnant, and it doesn't
make sense that aromas would be affected by the enzymes in my mouth...

floating_away

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Pat Meadows wrote:
|Cilantro and parsley are not only different *species* they
|are in different genuses.
|
|Parsley is _Petroselinum crispum_ .
|
|Cilantro is _Coriandrum sativum_ .
|
|So they are not very closely related. They are in the same
|family: the _Apiaceae_ .

Aha! Thanks, you guys are great!

|I can't offhand think of any particular reason why anyone
|would WANT a parsley/cilantro cross.

It would be nice if there were a parsley with a slightly different
flavor.

|BTW, you can't bypass Darwin and Mendel...they didn't come
|up with wild surmises, but worked out and elucidated some of
|the laws of natu how things actually work in the real
|world.
|
|I suppose you could make a GMO cross: gentically-engineered
|cross - gene splicing. But again: why would you WANT to?

There are lots of reasons why a person might want to create
new plants never seen before. Curiosity sometimes is its own
reason for doing things, but I suppose there are more practical
reasons for doing things. For instance, a higher concentration
of oils in the leaves (or even the roots or bulbs) is a good
reason for creating a hybrid. Different colors of leaves or
flowers is also a good reason for creating a hybrid, especially
if you anticipate marketing the product to small scale home
gardeners that like to mix as many of their plants into the
same plot as possible.

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Cereoid-UR12- wrote:
|Just because the species are in two different genera that doesn't
|necessarily mean the two genera are not closely related. There is
|such a thing as intergeneric hybrids. Intergeneric hybrids have been
|reported in the Apiaceae (Umbelliferae) and in the closely allied
|Araliaceae.

Have these reports been published relatively recently? In the last
five years or so?

|Don't know if it would be possible to cross the two species by cross
|pollination and get hybrid progeny. Fertility might possibly be
|restored by doubling the chromosomes?

There is nothing wrong with creating new plants that are healthier,
hardier, and more beneficial than was the case with either of the
parents before them.

|In this modern era of nuclear manipulation and gene splicing, almost
|anything is possible. The question is whether going to all the effort
|and experimentation to do so would be worth all the expense and time
|needed.

Yes, I understand that time and expense figures into the effort of
creating a viable hybrid.

Pat Meadows said:


I can't offhand think of any particular reason why anyone
would WANT a parsley/cilantro cross.

In the hopes of getting a cilantro-flavored plant that will produce leaves
for an entire season without bolting. (Not exactly a fortune-making
enterprise, to be sure.)

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 06:19:47 -0500, (Pat
Kiewicz) wrote:

Pat Meadows said:


I can't offhand think of any particular reason why anyone
would WANT a parsley/cilantro cross.

In the hopes of getting a cilantro-flavored plant that will produce leaves
for an entire season without bolting. (Not exactly a fortune-making
enterprise, to be sure.)

This would be good. I hadn't though of that. I bet it
could make someone's fortune....Having either one as a hardy
perennial would also be good.

You know what, though: I bought Slow-Bolt cilantro seeds
from Pinetree and I had quite a few cuttings from them -
they lasted for weeks and weeks and weeks.

Pat

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003, Cereoid-UR12- wrote:
|Just because the species are in two different genera that doesn't
|necessarily mean the two genera are not closely related. There is
|such a thing as intergeneric hybrids. Intergeneric hybrids have been
|reported in the Apiaceae (Umbelliferae) and in the closely allied
|Araliaceae.

How many millions of years must have passed in order for the various
genera in the family of Apiacea to have descended from a single genus?

I suppose it would be asking too much for a poster I could slap up
on the wall, detailing the branches, but then again... How does
a person generally go about judging how genetically distant any
two genera are, let alone species?

Matthew Montchalin wrote:

I suppose it would be asking too much for a poster I could slap up
on the wall, detailing the branches, but then again... How does
a person generally go about judging how genetically distant any
two genera are, let alone species?

One attends a university, specializes in botany, and starts to study the
branch one is interested in.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

In article pan.2003.07.16.09.55.43.350617@hetta, hetta @ spamcop.net (no blanks) wrote:

cilanthro

VILE smell, and coriander seed when it's done

Not everyone perceives the smell as vile. ("There are two kinds of
people...") If you like real Mexican food (as opposed to the fast-food
chain that pretends to be Mexican), you'll recognize the smell.

cheers,

Marj

* * *
Marj Tiefert: http://www.mindspring.com/~mtiefert/
Mediterranean Garden Shop: http://stores.tiefert.com/garden/
In Sunset zone 14-mild

Sorry Henrietta but a degree in botany is not required for one to hybridize
plants. There are scores of amateur and professional plant hybridizers in
the world who don't have degrees.

You may be shocked to know that Luther Burbank never had a degree in botany
or horticulture but he was able to make many outstanding plant hybrids that
are still being grown to this day.

After reading over his memoirs, it quickly became clear to me that Burbank
could have done much more if had a clearer understanding of botany but he
was still able to make a fortune anyway.

To become better aquatinted with the phylogeny of the genera of Apiaceae
(Umbelliferae) (and the allied Apiaceae), one should read over the taxonomic
and cytological articles written on the family, find out exactly on what is
the basis for the genera, find out what intergeneric crosses have already
been made and just go ahead and do experimental crosses to see what happens.
You may want to look in the Agricola database for some leads.

The recent creation of the snap pea was the result of someone who went ahead
and made what originally seemed to be frivolous crosses between traditional
seed peas and oriental pod peas. A whole new type of commercially viable pea
was created instead. You never know what you might get unless you try.


Henriette Kress wrote in message
newsan.2003.07.19.12.17.22.623739@hetta...
Matthew Montchalin wrote:

I suppose it would be asking too much for a poster I could slap up
on the wall, detailing the branches, but then again... How does
a person generally go about judging how genetically distant any
two genera are, let alone species?

One attends a university, specializes in botany, and starts to study the
branch one is interested in.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

Well, assuming for a moment that this so called enzyme theory is true, your
perception of the aroma would have a great deal to do with such an enzyme.
Taste and Smell are very much linked together, and if one is diminished (or
enhanced) for some reason, the other is most definately affected. Remember
anything from grade-school about the blindfolded taste tests? How by holding
or plugging one's nose an apple and a potato taste nearly identical.

This is not to say I'm buying into this idea of a mouth enzyme. I will say
however that as a child I thought that fresh cilantro had a vile smell, one
I can't quite describe now becuase oddly enough it no longer affects me this
way. In fact cilantro no longer seems to have very much of a smell at all. I
know this is me, becuase my roommate can still very much smell that odor
which some (including myself at one time) describe as vile. But for some
reason I no longer smell it! Funny how this never came up in those, "So now
your becomming a man" classes...

"Floating Away" wrote in message
om...
(Art Sackett) wrote in message
...
M. Tiefert wrote:

cilanthro

VILE smell, and coriander seed when it's done

Not everyone perceives the smell as vile.

You can say that again. I make my salsa cruda by the gallon (about one
a week, more if there's company) and it's just not the same without a
couple hands full of cilanto in it.

I have heard that certain people lack an enzyme in their mouths (or
have an extra one, or something like that), the result of which is
that cilantro has a disagreeable "soapy" taste. My friend said she
had heard the same thing, and that something like one in five people
has this problem. It makes sense on one hand, but on the other hand
I, as a cilantro-hater, also find the aroma repugnant, and it doesn't
make sense that aromas would be affected by the enzymes in my mouth...

floating_away

Cereoid-UR12- wrote:

I suppose it would be asking too much for a poster I could slap up
on the wall, detailing the branches, but then again... How does
a person generally go about judging how genetically distant any
two genera are, let alone species?

Sorry Henrietta but a degree in botany is not required for one to hybridize
plants. There are scores of amateur and professional plant hybridizers in
the world who don't have degrees.

He didn't want to hybridize anything. He wanted a picture of all the
genera in botany, showing just how they are related to each other, and how
close they are genetically.
Dunno how old he is, but that's a tall order for somebody who doesn't know
if cilantro and parsley belong to the Apiaceae.

Anyway, such a pretty picture would certainly be possible if botanists
could only agree on genera ... and it's possible that such beasts are
available online, but by what I can see, Matthew didn't even try a google
search.

And I'm an old enough fart that my reaction to a question that requires
years and years of research is to tell'em to do it themselves. Ditto for
questions that can be answered with a simple web search, which I have no
idea if this one is... but neither does Matthew, eh?

Whatever. The question is certainly off-topic on rec.gardens.edible...
follow-up set.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

In article ,
Matthew Montchalin writes
Intergeneric hybrids have been
|reported in the Apiaceae (Umbelliferae) and in the closely allied
|Araliaceae.

Have these reports been published relatively recently? In the last
five years or so?

x Fatshedera (Araliaceae: Fatsia x Hedera) was described in 1923.

[Citation ex IPNI: Guillaumin, Journ. Soc. Nat. Hort. France, Ser. IV.
xxiv. 524 (1923)]
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

You forgot to mention:

x Anthrichaerophyllum P.Fournier, Quatre Fl. France 663 (1937)
(Apiaceae (Umbelliferae): Anthriscus X Chaerophyllum)

There are also other intergeneric crosses known only by formula.

Knobloch, I.W. (1972) INTERGENERIC HYBRIDIZATION IN FLOWERING PLANTS. Taxon
21 (1): 97-103.



Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote in message
...
In article ,
Matthew Montchalin writes
Intergeneric hybrids have been
|reported in the Apiaceae (Umbelliferae) and in the closely allied
|Araliaceae.

Have these reports been published relatively recently? In the last
five years or so?

x Fatshedera (Araliaceae: Fatsia x Hedera) was described in 1923.

[Citation ex IPNI: Guillaumin, Journ. Soc. Nat. Hort. France, Ser. IV.
xxiv. 524 (1923)]
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

"The question is certainly off-topic on rec.gardens.edible..."

That's probably why Matthew cross-posted his question to sci.bio.botany!!!!

Matthew certainly did ask a question that has an answer much bigger than he
can handle.
Then again, the learning process has to start somewhere!

Even you are learning something new, Henrietta!
You might consider taking Beano for that "old fart" problem you have!

http://www.beano.net/


Henriette Kress wrote in message
newsan.2003.07.19.18.07.17.770348@hetta...
Cereoid-UR12- wrote:

I suppose it would be asking too much for a poster I could slap up
on the wall, detailing the branches, but then again... How does
a person generally go about judging how genetically distant any
two genera are, let alone species?

Sorry Henrietta but a degree in botany is not required for one to
hybridize
plants. There are scores of amateur and professional plant hybridizers
in
the world who don't have degrees.

He didn't want to hybridize anything. He wanted a picture of all the
genera in botany, showing just how they are related to each other, and how
close they are genetically.
Dunno how old he is, but that's a tall order for somebody who doesn't know
if cilantro and parsley belong to the Apiaceae.

Anyway, such a pretty picture would certainly be possible if botanists
could only agree on genera ... and it's possible that such beasts are
available online, but by what I can see, Matthew didn't even try a google
search.

And I'm an old enough fart that my reaction to a question that requires
years and years of research is to tell'em to do it themselves. Ditto for
questions that can be answered with a simple web search, which I have no
idea if this one is... but neither does Matthew, eh?

Whatever. The question is certainly off-topic on rec.gardens.edible...
follow-up set.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, Henriette Kress wrote:
| I suppose it would be asking too much for a poster I could slap up
| on the wall, detailing the branches, but then again... How does
| a person generally go about judging how genetically distant any
| two genera are, let alone species?
|
|One attends a university, specializes in botany, and starts to study
|the branch one is interested in.

Not that your answer comes close to addressing my question, but while
we are on the subject, which universities have your stamp of approval?