My neighbor recently dug up a huge bush from his yard- it is about 5 feet
tall - and gave it to me in a bucket (wastepaper basket). He tells me
that it is 'anise' (and it has a faint licorice-like flavor to it) but
according to my gardening book, fennel grows 5 feet high, and anise
grows only 1 foot high. How can I tell which plant I've got?

I am perhaps confused or misled by the passages in my gardening
book that say that

anise
cilanthro
fennel
licorice

are all members of the parsley family. Will they cross-breed
if I raise them next to each other? Anise is an annual, but
fennel is a perennial. If they are crossed, is there any way
of knowing in advance whether the result is a perennial?

Matthew Montchalin wrote:

My neighbor recently dug up a huge bush from his yard- it is about 5 feet
tall - and gave it to me in a bucket (wastepaper basket). He tells me
that it is 'anise' (and it has a faint licorice-like flavor to it) but
according to my gardening book, fennel grows 5 feet high, and anise
grows only 1 foot high. How can I tell which plant I've got?

I am perhaps confused or misled by the passages in my gardening
book that say that

anise

Feathery leaf, much like chervil

cilanthro

VILE smell, and coriander seed when it's done

fennel

Dilly leaf, possibly bulbous stem at ground level

licorice

Not in the same family at all.

are all members of the parsley family. Will they cross-breed
if I raise them next to each other?

No. And that's pretty much the definition of genus (as opposed to
species).

Anise is an annual, but
fennel is a perennial. If they are crossed, is there any way
of knowing in advance whether the result is a perennial?

Aniseed gets _huge_. 5' is about right.
Anise hyssop (Agastache foeniculum) is another anisy plant (in the
Lamiaceae, though - pretty blue or white flower spikes), as is sweet cicely
(Myrrhis odorata)(in the Apiaceae, like anise, parsley, cilantro and
fennel)(very soft fernlike leaf, longish seed that tastes of anise sweets
when it's green, but of nothing at all when it's ripe and black).

Licorice is NOT in the Apiaceae. It's in the Fabaceae; and its leaf does
not taste or smell of anise - the root tastes of sweet sweet licorice,
instead.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

M. Tiefert wrote:

cilanthro

VILE smell, and coriander seed when it's done

Not everyone perceives the smell as vile.

You can say that again. I make my salsa cruda by the gallon (about one
a week, more if there's company) and it's just not the same without a
couple hands full of cilanto in it.

--
Art Sackett

M. Tiefert wrote:

cilanthro

VILE smell, and coriander seed when it's done

Not everyone perceives the smell as vile.

You can say that again. I make my salsa cruda by the gallon (about one
a week, more if there's company) and it's just not the same without a
couple hands full of cilanto in it.

--
Art Sackett

In article ,
Matthew Montchalin wrote:

My neighbor recently dug up a huge bush from his yard- it is about 5 feet
tall - and gave it to me in a bucket (wastepaper basket). He tells me
that it is 'anise' (and it has a faint licorice-like flavor to it) but
according to my gardening book, fennel grows 5 feet high, and anise
grows only 1 foot high. How can I tell which plant I've got?

I am perhaps confused or misled by the passages in my gardening
book that say that

anise
cilanthro
fennel
licorice

are all members of the parsley family. Will they cross-breed
if I raise them next to each other? Anise is an annual, but
fennel is a perennial. If they are crossed, is there any way
of knowing in advance whether the result is a perennial?



Florence fennel (a variety grown for its swollen leaf base) is often
sold in markets as anise and fennel is often referred to popularly as
anise.

In article ,
Matthew Montchalin wrote:

My neighbor recently dug up a huge bush from his yard- it is about 5 feet
tall - and gave it to me in a bucket (wastepaper basket). He tells me
that it is 'anise' (and it has a faint licorice-like flavor to it) but
according to my gardening book, fennel grows 5 feet high, and anise
grows only 1 foot high. How can I tell which plant I've got?

I am perhaps confused or misled by the passages in my gardening
book that say that

anise
cilanthro
fennel
licorice

are all members of the parsley family. Will they cross-breed
if I raise them next to each other? Anise is an annual, but
fennel is a perennial. If they are crossed, is there any way
of knowing in advance whether the result is a perennial?



Florence fennel (a variety grown for its swollen leaf base) is often
sold in markets as anise and fennel is often referred to popularly as
anise.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Henriette Kress wrote:
|Licorice is NOT in the Apiaceae. It's in the Fabaceae; and its leaf does
|not taste or smell of anise - the root tastes of sweet sweet licorice,
|instead.

Ah! Thanks for the correction!

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Henriette Kress wrote:
| I am perhaps confused or misled by the passages in my gardening
| book that say that
|
| anise
|
|Feathery leaf, much like chervil
|
| cilanthro
|
|VILE smell, and coriander seed when it's done
|
| fennel
|
|Dilly leaf, possibly bulbous stem at ground level
|
| licorice
|
|Not in the same family at all.

ok

| are all members of the parsley family. Will they cross-breed
| if I raise them next to each other?
|
|No. And that's pretty much the definition of genus (as opposed to
|species).
|
| Anise is an annual, but
| fennel is a perennial. If they are crossed, is there any way
| of knowing in advance whether the result is a perennial?
|
|Aniseed gets _huge_. 5' is about right.
|Anise hyssop (Agastache foeniculum) is another anisy plant (in the
|Lamiaceae, though - pretty blue or white flower spikes), as is sweet cicely
|(Myrrhis odorata)(in the Apiaceae, like anise, parsley, cilantro and
|fennel)(very soft fernlike leaf, longish seed that tastes of anise sweets
|when it's green, but of nothing at all when it's ripe and black).

Does the oil of anise or fennel confer an advantage in some way? Do
predators or insects shy away from anise of fennel, because of the way
it tastes?

|Licorice is NOT in the Apiaceae. It's in the Fabaceae; and its leaf does
|not taste or smell of anise - the root tastes of sweet sweet licorice,
|instead.

Is the oil in the licorice root have the same chemical makeup as the
oil in anise or fennel?

Matthew Montchalin wrote:

|Licorice is NOT in the Apiaceae. It's in the Fabaceae; and its leaf does
|not taste or smell of anise - the root tastes of sweet sweet licorice,
|instead.

Is the oil in the licorice root have the same chemical makeup as the
oil in anise or fennel?

Nope. But most licorice candy is made with anise oil instead of
licorice...

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

Henriette Kress wrote:
|Matthew Montchalin wrote:
|
| |Licorice is NOT in the Apiaceae. It's in the Fabaceae; and its leaf
| |does not taste or smell of anise - the root tastes of sweet sweet
| |licorice, instead.
|
| Is the oil in the licorice root have the same chemical makeup as the
| oil in anise or fennel?
|
|Nope. But most licorice candy is made with anise oil instead of
|licorice...

Why is this the case? Does it take longer to raise licorice than
anise? Or is it because of tort liability, some people being allergic
to one but not the other?

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, Henriette Kress wrote:
| I am perhaps confused or misled by the passages in my gardening
| book that say that
|
| anise
|
|Feathery leaf, much like chervil
|
| cilanthro
|
|VILE smell, and coriander seed when it's done
|
| fennel
|
|Dilly leaf, possibly bulbous stem at ground level
|
| licorice
|
|Not in the same family at all.

Finally, I have heard some people tell me that "Italian" parsley
does not taste like 'regular' parsley, but has a different taste
altogether. Is it similar to cilanthro (which to me has a tangy,
metallic sort of flavor) or something else altogether?

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:16:32 -0700, Matthew Montchalin
wrote:



Finally, I have heard some people tell me that "Italian" parsley
does not taste like 'regular' parsley, but has a different taste
altogether. Is it similar to cilanthro (which to me has a tangy,
metallic sort of flavor) or something else altogether?

I don't think so. I grow cilantro, flat-leaf (Italian
parsley) and curly (regular) parsley.

I think the Italian parsley tastes pretty much like the
'regular' parsley, but milder, less strong - you could say
'a more delicate taste'.

I certainly don't think it (Italian parsley) tastes anything
at all like cilantro. No way.

But tastes are tricky, you know, and I'm convinced that what
*I* taste may not be the same as what *you* taste. Very
individual things, tastes.

Pat

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Pat Meadows wrote:
|Finally, I have heard some people tell me that "Italian" parsley
|does not taste like 'regular' parsley, but has a different taste
|altogether. Is it similar to cilanthro (which to me has a tangy,
|metallic sort of flavor) or something else altogether?
|
|I don't think so. I grow cilantro, flat-leaf (Italian
|parsley) and curly (regular) parsley.
|
|I think the Italian parsley tastes pretty much like the
|'regular' parsley, but milder, less strong - you could say
|'a more delicate taste'.
|
|I certainly don't think it (Italian parsley) tastes anything
|at all like cilantro. No way.
|
|But tastes are tricky, you know, and I'm convinced that what
|*I* taste may not be the same as what *you* taste. Very
|individual things, tastes.

And while we are on the subject, if cilanthro and parsley are
two different species, has anyone done any genetic engineering
yet to cross the two? Bypassing Darwin and Mendel, it must
be possible to create a hybrid between these two species... ?

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:26:41 -0700, Matthew Montchalin
wrote:



And while we are on the subject, if cilanthro and parsley are
two different species, has anyone done any genetic engineering
yet to cross the two? Bypassing Darwin and Mendel, it must
be possible to create a hybrid between these two species... ?


Cilantro and parsley are not only different *species* they
are in different genuses.

Parsley is _Petroselinum crispum_ .

Cilantro is _Coriandrum sativum_ .

So they are not very closely related. They are in the same
family: the _Apiaceae_ .

I can't offhand think of any particular reason why anyone
would WANT a parsley/cilantro cross.

BTW, you can't bypass Darwin and Mendel...they didn't come
up with wild surmises, but worked out and elucidated some of
the laws of natu how things actually work in the real
world.

I suppose you could make a GMO cross: gentically-engineered
cross - gene splicing. But again: why would you WANT to?

Pat

Just because the species are in two different genera that doesn't
necessarily mean the two genera are not closely related. There is such a
thing as intergeneric hybrids. Intergeneric hybrids have been reported in
the Apiaceae (Umbelliferae) and in the closely allied Araliaceae.

Don't know if it would be possible to cross the two species by cross
pollination and get hybrid progeny. Fertility might possibly be restored by
doubling the chromosomes?

In this modern era of nuclear manipulation and gene splicing, almost
anything is possible. The question is whether going to all the effort and
experimentation to do so would be worth all the expense and time needed.


Pat Meadows wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:26:41 -0700, Matthew Montchalin
wrote:



And while we are on the subject, if cilanthro and parsley are
two different species, has anyone done any genetic engineering
yet to cross the two? Bypassing Darwin and Mendel, it must
be possible to create a hybrid between these two species... ?


Cilantro and parsley are not only different *species* they
are in different genuses.

Parsley is _Petroselinum crispum_ .

Cilantro is _Coriandrum sativum_ .

So they are not very closely related. They are in the same
family: the _Apiaceae_ .

I can't offhand think of any particular reason why anyone
would WANT a parsley/cilantro cross.

BTW, you can't bypass Darwin and Mendel...they didn't come
up with wild surmises, but worked out and elucidated some of
the laws of natu how things actually work in the real
world.

I suppose you could make a GMO cross: gentically-engineered
cross - gene splicing. But again: why would you WANT to?

Pat