We haven't composted for quite some time so I bought a truck load for
the reased beds. I have a couple of questions. Is too much compost a
bad thing? I mean, can I use too much compost for the raised beds? I
would like to start composting again. When we composted we had a
special black bin thing. Could I set up a a compost pile without the
special bin? If so, how difficult to maintain would this set up be? TIA

Check the ph on the compost. If it is 6 or 7 its will be perfect. If it is
above 8 it may be a bit high and you should probably mix it with soil and
let its it for a bit (1 month) then retest the ph before planting.

Generally no too much compost is never a bad thing. Most (but not all)
plants will love it. It will save you having to water, it will encourage
worms, it will improve the existing soil etc etc.

You can 'make' compost however you like. The main aim is to keep the compost
as warm as possible, so it breaks down quickly. You can pile up a heap of
manure,leaves, grass clippings etc and put a plastic tarp over it and let it
sit. The real key to good compost is to include a variety of ingredients or
roughly equal quantities, and make sure there is manure. (any type will do
really)

When I make a compost pile I gather all the 'ingredients' together and mix
them all up together and add water and cover. I give it a bit of a turn,
roughly every 2/3 weeks (sometimes)

What I don't do is continue adding more matter to this decomposing compost.
I start up a new pile instead. Otherwise the compost would never fully
decompose.

"nutNhoney" wrote in message
...
We haven't composted for quite some time so I bought a truck load for
the reased beds. I have a couple of questions. Is too much compost a
bad thing? I mean, can I use too much compost for the raised beds? I
would like to start composting again. When we composted we had a
special black bin thing. Could I set up a a compost pile without the
special bin? If so, how difficult to maintain would this set up be? TIA

nutNhoney said:

We haven't composted for quite some time so I bought a truck load for
the reased beds. I have a couple of questions. Is too much compost a
bad thing? I mean, can I use too much compost for the raised beds?

It's theoretically possible to have too much compost. I do recall seeing photos
from an experiment somewhere with plants grown in various percentages of
compost, up to pure compost, with best results coming somewhere in the middle.
Certainly most home gardeners can barely produce enough for every use they
might want to put the stuff, which is why gardeners go around saying "You can
never have too much compost." (There can *absolutely* be too much compost
for a host of ornamental plants, including some Mediterranean herbs that are best
grown in lean, well-draining soils.)

The recommendation usually batted around is that 8 - 10 % is an 'ideal' organic
matter content. A more practical rule of thumb might be 3 - 4 inches of compost
tilled in to jump-start a new garden bed. After that, plan on adding 1 inch of
compost per year.

I remember once someone commenting about raised beds she'd made when her
garden was first started with a *huge* load of trucked in compost. She'd added
lots of compost to fill the beds up to the rim. And as time went on the compost
continued oxidizing and the beds started shrinking...and shrinking...and shrinking...

I would like to start composting again. When we composted we had a
special black bin thing. Could I set up a a compost pile without the
special bin? If so, how difficult to maintain would this set up be?

You don't need a special bin. You can compost without any bin at all.
Bins and enclosure do help keep things tidy, though. Composting can
be slow and uncomplicated, or as fussy as you want.

If you would like some instructions about hot, batch composting, send me
an email (see signature for clarification).

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

nutNhoney wrote in message ...
We haven't composted for quite some time so I bought a truck load for
the reased beds. I have a couple of questions. Is too much compost a
bad thing? I mean, can I use too much compost for the raised beds?

It depends. For squash, no. For beets, yes. Different plants like (or
tolerate) different amounts. Buy a sampler packet of everything the
first year, and figure out what likes what. Even if the first year the
compost is too strong for the beets, next year it will be mellower,
and in no more than two years it should be perfect (if you add no
fresh compost).

I
would like to start composting again. When we composted we had a
special black bin thing. Could I set up a a compost pile without the
special bin? If so, how difficult to maintain would this set up be? TIA

It depends. If you have a corner behind the garage that you don't use,
you could let stuff sit there until it rots (the only problem being
that the seeds in the compost will not cook, as it will be composting
slowly).
If you want a relatively fast compost, either you buy the thing that
turns, or break your back turning it with a fork, or make compost with
lots of kitchen scraps, which tends to go very fast (and produce a
fairly hot pile).

"Liza" wrote:

I give it a bit of a turn,
roughly every 2/3 weeks (sometimes)

Is that every two to three weeks or every two thirds of a week?
--
Whenever I hear or think of the song "Great green gobs of greasy
grimey gopher guts" I imagine my cat saying; "That sounds REALLY,
REALLY good. I'll have some of that!"

Liza wrote:
You can 'make' compost however you like. The main aim is to keep the
compost as warm as possible, so it breaks down quickly. You can pile up a
heap of manure,leaves, grass clippings etc and put a plastic tarp over it
and let it sit. The real key to good compost is to include a variety of
ingredients or roughly equal quantities, and make sure there is manure.
(any type will do really)


While manure is good, it is not a requirement. I have zero manure in my
compost piles and they decompose just fine.

Be wary of 'cookbook' suggestions for compost as they tend to introduce the
authors biases. Done properly, you could compost an entire elephant ...
rider and all. Try a couple smaller piles for practice first.

What you are looking for is a balance between materials that contribute a
lot of carbon and materials that contribute a lot of nitrogen. To these,
you'll add air, water and patience. I find that a mix of (approx.) equal
parts (by weight) of high nitrogen material with low nitrogen material
works well. By volume, that tends to be about twice as much low nitrogen
material as high nitrogen material. For instance, twice as much straw as
grass clippings, mixed well and watered. Or, one part dried tree leaves
plus one part straw to 1/2 part grass clippings and 1/2 part kitchen waste.
Play with the numbers to suit the materials at hand.

Mix well, preferably into a pile that measures at least 3' (1 meter) in each
direction. This can be done on the open ground, in a pit or in any
container of your liking that allows drainage and free access to oxygen.
You do not have to mix at all if you are willing to wait longer for the
results and are willing to tolerate the survival of more weed seeds.

My most recent pile, made in a wire bin measuring 4' diameter x 4" tall,
went from an ambient 72 deg F to 160 deg. F in less than 24 hours and was
at 170 deg F the following day. It is still, a week and 3 rain showers
later, at ~135 deg. F. When it goes below about 100 deg. F, I'll consider
turning and re-wetting it.

All it contains is purchased straw, grass clipppings from the alley behind
my house and a strip alongside a busy road and some old wood chips I was
given. Oh ... and some kitchen scraps.

Alternately, you can spread the ingredients out on the site of a future
planting bed and till / turn it under which is what I would recommed to a
person just establishing their garden for the first time. That method is
quickest and captures the most nutrients / fibers. It just won't work very
well once the beds are planted ... thus compost piles the rest of the year.

There are LOTS of ways to return organic material to your soil (the ultimate
goal of composting). There are even ways that don't rely on any disturbance
of the soil at all. Search the web using the search term "compost" in your
favorite search engine. Likely you will never read all the pages the search
reveals.

I would like to make two specific suggestions. First is to obtain a
long-stem compost thermometer with a probe of ~20" or more. Comparing the
temps indicated with the results you get from the mix you made is a great
self-training tool. They generally go for around $20 USD, so the price is
not horrendous. The second is that you not bother with the so-called
'compost starters' 'compost innoculant'withces brews. They just isnt'
needed. At most, they might shave 2-3 days off the first batch. For the
second and subsequent batches you will always have a small amount of the
previous batch to add as an innoculant if you are so inclined. The bacteria
you need are already present on/in the material you will be composting.
Unless you live in a sterile biosphere, let nature handle matters. I
usually add a couple shovels full of the old material just to give things a
kick start. But even that isn't necessary.

I know this is long. I just hope it is also helpful.

Bill

re "Compost Starter Mix"

Bill said,
The second is that you not bother with the so-called
'compost starters' 'compost innoculant'withces brews. They just isnt'
needed. At most, they might shave 2-3 days off the first batch. For the
second and subsequent batches you will always have a small amount of the
previous batch to add as an innoculant if you are so inclined. The bacteria
you need are already present on/in the material you will be composting.
Unless you live in a sterile biosphere, let nature handle matters. I
usually add a couple shovels full of the old material just to give things a
kick start. But even that isn't necessary.


True but it wont hurt. I always include a shovelful or two aof dirt when I
add leaves to my pile. That way I am introducing innoculants. I have noticed
that that it very important to getting the pile cooking.

Ed

Laser6328 wrote:


True but it wont hurt. I always include a shovelful or two aof dirt when
I
add leaves to my pile. That way I am introducing innoculants. I have
noticed that that it very important to getting the pile cooking.

Ed

I have a pile presently working that consists principally of purchased straw
(I'm out of tree leaves already) and grass clippings. It also got some wood
chips and a bucket of kitchen waste. In less than 24 hours (without any
sort of intentional innoculation) it went to 165 deg. F. At the 30 hour
mark it was fully 170 deg. F. Over the course of about a week it dropped
back to about 150 deg. F. where it held for a few days. It has now held
steady at 135-140 deg. F. for a full week. When it drops to ~100, I'll turn
it. The inclusion of large quantities of straw, and thus the assurance of a
constant supply of oxygen, seems to have had a very positive impact.

Newcomers to composting have enough to do just learning to get the
moisture / oxygen balance and the carbon / nitrogen ratios right.

I just want to encourage the original poster to keep her money in her purse
and use locally available bacteria. A shovel of dirt or a fork load of old
compost won't hurt ... but are 'belt & suspenders'.

If you just stack stuff in a corner and wait, you'll get compost.

If you'll mix nitrogen-bearing materials, carbon-bearing materials, water
and air, you'll get it faster.

If the pile is between 3' and 5' in each direction, you'll get the finished
product still faster.

If you get all of the steps right, you'll get the pile I referenced above.
(I have two other piles that are doing fine, but not as well as that
one ... they can't all be gems. One is still too small and the other had
too many grass clippings, not enough tree leaves and almost no straw. As a
result, when the monsoons came to SE Michigan, it couldn't cope and went
sour. I've turned it once (ewwww ... stanky!) and it's better. I'll
probably turn it again today and add more straw and it should be fine this
time.)

Adding innoculants to a hot pile may hasten matters by a few days, but the
bacteria needed for decomposition are already present and just need
suitable conditions to multiply to useful numbers. As shown in the example
above, the time advantage of innoculated vs un-innoculated can be
considerably less than 24 hours. The pile was 165 deg. F. in about 20
hours. Since anything north of about 130 deg. F is golden, how much time
could I have saved by innoculating it? Six hours? Eight? Having the compost
ready even eight hours faster just has no value to me. If I could shave a
week off, I'd be interested. If I could shave two weeks off, I'd smile and
possibly even reach for my wallet. But mere hours? Nah.

Stuff decomposes just fine in the fields, forests and waterways without any
help from innoculants, layering, mixing or other complicated voodoo. That's
something that we tend to forget ... our intervention isn't required at
all. All we buy with all our work is time and a sense of personal
accomplishment. For me, and probably for you, that is sufficient. But we
mere humans are simply allowed to "play along at home" ... we aren't
essential to the plan.

Why spend money to make things complicated if the end result is going to
happen the free and simple way? After giving her the general drift of
making compost piles at home I just wanted to encourage her to strike out
on her own and leave the 'patent medicine for compost piles' alone.

Please take nothing I've said as being intended as personally hurtful.
Obviously your way works for you and I don't contend otherwise. In fact, I
make about 1/2 my piles that way. As long as I don't have to spend money or
considerable time to do it, why not? A forkfull of dirt from beneath a
former compost pile can be heap big powerful medicine to a new pile.
Actually, that dirt, steeped as it is in compost tea, should be sold by the
4 ounce bag at boutique prices.

I just wanted to steer her clear of an unneccessary expense and needless
aggravation on her first pile. As of the second pile, she'll have all the
innoculant she needs for the rest of her life.

That said, when I take my hobby website commercial, I'll be selling small
bottles of a foul smelling concoction for innoculating compost piles. Some
people just gotta do things the hard, expensive way and who am I to
interfere with that?

When I do, though, I think I'll make the label design positively reek of
'patent medicine show'.

Bill

writes:

That said, when I take my hobby website commercial, I'll be selling small
bottles of a foul smelling concoction for innoculating compost piles. Some
people just gotta do things the hard, expensive way and who am I to
interfere with that?

When I do, though, I think I'll make the label design positively reek of
'patent medicine show'.

LOL!!!

Thanks, BIll, for the laugh. :-)

Glenna

A lot of depends on how well the compost is "finished". If it comes out
looking just like the commercial topsoil you buy, it is great for most
crops. Check the PH, as another poster mentioned, to be sure.

My stuff comes out much more coarse. It needs to be tilled into soil to be
suitable. Even the coarse stuff is a great improvement. I have a great
example.

Two years ago I bought this house in NC. The first year, I only planted
along the back fence. That area I side dressed my peppers and tomatos with
my compost. Last year I was in Iraq with the Army, so nothing was done.
This year, I planted the full garden, and sowed Grain Sorgum as a cover crop
in the area I did not plant. As of last week, the Cover crop in the main
garden area was about 12" tall. The cover crop in the area where I had
added the compost is about 24" tall.

Rich

Do make sure the compost is finsihed....lol...I made the mistake of tilling
the whole compost pile into my garden this year. I planted maybe 16 tomato
plants and ended up with over 90 and you dont even want to know how many
potatos sprouted up...needless to say...my garden got crowed fast.

Glenna Rose wrote:


When I do, though, I think I'll make the label design positively reek of
'patent medicine show'.

LOL!!!

Thanks, BIll, for the laugh. :-)

Glenna

My pleasure, Glenna. I got a kick out of writing it. ;-)