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#16
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Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)
zxcvbob wrote:
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use herbicides. Who issues that license? The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed 2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the little ChemLawn sign in their front yard. While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done. Bob Chemlawn got me a few years ago, here's what happened: http://www.dontveter.com/howtogrow/chemlawn.html Don Tveter -- ************************************************** ********************** The Pattern Recognition Basis of Artificial Intelligence Backpropagator's Review NN freeware for UNIX and PCs A Professional BP Version for X and Windows ************************************************** ********************** Don Tveter http://www.dontveter.com ************************************************** ********************** |
#17
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Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)
Doug Kanter wrote:
Nonsense. If the suits cared about these things, they'd hire people who can tell the difference between dandelions and zucchini. The best thing to do is keep the local franchise on edge with as much legal terror and bad publicity as possible. There is no other way. You're dealing with an industry which has no scruples. If they have no scruples, then they probably also believe in the old adage that there is no such thing as *bad* publicity. "Bad" publicity puts your name in front of people who haven't heard it before. "Bad" publicity lets people know that someone does the service that they do. "Bad" publicity raises awareness of you in the market place. The only way this "bad" publicity will hurt them is if existing customers cancel their contracts (which they probably can't). The *bad* publicity is likely to get them new customers. Why? Because not everyone will be sympathetic with the protagonist in our story. There will be people out there who'll say, "This guy was an idiot to plant his vegetables so close to the property line. You know, I need help with my lawn. I think I'll call them." If you're going to take this into the court of public opinion, before you give the company _any_ publicity, you need to raise awareness about the harm their sprays do, and how the alternatives are less expensive, easier, and more effective. You have to get the court of public opinion to get on your side before you give the company publicity. As long as there is a significant number of people out there who still believe in better lawns through chemicals, the *bad* publicity you give the company isn't going to hurt them, nor will it help you. It'll do nothing for you, and help them become better known. Free advertising thanks to you. Before taking anything to the court of public opinion, you need to stop and think about how other people think. There are plenty of people out there who don't think logically. There are plenty of people who have opinions other than you. There are plenty of people who'll get the wrong message unless you know how to spin things right. You can't just toss a couple of facts out there, and hope people will come to the right conclusion. You must prep them to come to that conclusion long before you reveal the facts of the situation. And in this case, every time people go to the Home and Garden sections of retailers, they see plenty of chemicals. The court of public opinion is being swayed to believe that chemicals are normal. You have to change that nearly completely before your complaint against ChemLawn will gain enough favor in the court of public opinion to actually hurt ChemLawn. A majority opinion isn't enough. Those with the minority opinion are still potential customers for ChemLawn, and your case is not *bad* publicity. It's advertising for them. Talk to the neighbors. Talk to the company. Report the company to any agency that will listen. But don't take it to the court of public opinion, and don't use that as a threat when talking to the company. Instead, if you really feel the need to address the court of public opinion, start by showing the benefits of not using chemicals. In a few years, public opinion may shift, and ChemLawn will loose customers. Don't just jump out there and start giving them free advertising now. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Blatant Plug: Get Black and Decker Landscaping Tools He http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blac...ker/index.html |
#18
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Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)
"Warren" wrote in message
news:ZNUKc.134227$XM6.118701@attbi_s53... You have to get the court of public opinion to get on your side before you give the company publicity. It only requires one judge to issue an injunction, which stops the current practice in its tracks on a specific piece of property. The rest is gravy. |
#19
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Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Ray" wrote in message ... A company wide memo telling the sprayers to be careful will help lots of people. The company suits don't want bad publicity, so they are very likely to hand down orders 'from on high'. Ray Drouillard Nonsense. If the suits cared about these things, they'd hire people who can tell the difference between dandelions and zucchini. The best thing to do is keep the local franchise on edge with as much legal terror and bad publicity as possible. There is no other way. You're dealing with an industry which has no scruples. The suits care about profit. It would cost more to hire non-idiots, but handing down a memo is almost free. Ray |
#20
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Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)
"Ray" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Ray" wrote in message ... A company wide memo telling the sprayers to be careful will help lots of people. The company suits don't want bad publicity, so they are very likely to hand down orders 'from on high'. Ray Drouillard Nonsense. If the suits cared about these things, they'd hire people who can tell the difference between dandelions and zucchini. The best thing to do is keep the local franchise on edge with as much legal terror and bad publicity as possible. There is no other way. You're dealing with an industry which has no scruples. The suits care about profit. It would cost more to hire non-idiots, but handing down a memo is almost free. Ray Good for the suits, but not you and I, and our children. The idiots they hire can't read, so a memo is pointless. |
#21
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Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)
"zxcvbob" wrote in message ... I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use herbicides. Who issues that license? The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed 2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the little ChemLawn sign in their front yard. While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done. Bob Perhaps your neighbor should have treated his own lawn, then your entire garden may have been ruined. |
#22
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Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)
"zxcvbob" wrote in message ... One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually see the ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion? (I'm not doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know that in court you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a situation like this.) I have strong circumstantial evidence, but IMHO physical evidence is stronger than the testimony of one eye witness. Ideally, I would have videotape, or physical evidence plus a half-dozen eye witnesses... but if I'd known ahead of time that this was going to happen I could have confronted the guy. I like the idea of catching him on video next time, but I don't have the means to do that. I may try to find out when they are coming back to this neighborhood and plan to be home that day. Meanwhile, I can complain to whoever issued their business license, franchise, pesticide license, etc. If any of these are suspended for a while, they could lose a lot of customers when they can't fullfill their season-long lawn service contracts. A number of years ago, An old man across the street sprayed a shrub in his neighbor's yard he didn't like with herbicide. A tree sprayer hired by the neighbor noticed the damage, and after questioning the neighbor, reported the action to the state E.P.A. They came out and gave a stern talking to the old man. Would you really consider anything grown after being sprayed with 2,4,d to be something you'd feed to your family. I'd consider the entire area to be contaminated, requiring replacement of the soil before use for a vegetable garden. Bob |
#23
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Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)
"Bob" wrote in message newsO2Lc.120942$MB3.32604@attbi_s04... "zxcvbob" wrote in message ... One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually see the ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion? (I'm not doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know that in court you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a situation like this.) I have strong circumstantial evidence, but IMHO physical evidence is stronger than the testimony of one eye witness. Ideally, I would have videotape, or physical evidence plus a half-dozen eye witnesses... but if I'd known ahead of time that this was going to happen I could have confronted the guy. I like the idea of catching him on video next time, but I don't have the means to do that. I may try to find out when they are coming back to this neighborhood and plan to be home that day. Meanwhile, I can complain to whoever issued their business license, franchise, pesticide license, etc. If any of these are suspended for a while, they could lose a lot of customers when they can't fullfill their season-long lawn service contracts. A number of years ago, An old man across the street sprayed a shrub in his neighbor's yard he didn't like with herbicide. A tree sprayer hired by the neighbor noticed the damage, and after questioning the neighbor, reported the action to the state E.P.A. They came out and gave a stern talking to the old man. Would you really consider anything grown after being sprayed with 2,4,d to be something you'd feed to your family. I'd consider the entire area to be contaminated, requiring replacement of the soil before use for a vegetable garden. Bob I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds this kind of thing outrageous. |
#24
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Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)
zxcvbob wrote:
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use herbicides. Who issues that license? Aside from the licensing issue, you might also complain to the Better Business Bureau. |
#25
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Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)
"zxcvbob" wrote in message ... Bill R wrote: zxcvbob wrote: I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use herbicides. Who issues that license? The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed 2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the little ChemLawn sign in their front yard. While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done. Bob Bob, Sorry to hear about your garden. Most states regulate the lawn care industry but, in most cases, the "safe use" of herbicides is not done very well. You may also check with your county, some have some regulations that they must follow. One way to deal with companies like that is to sue them in small claims court (sometimes not worth the trouble). If you have a local TV station that has a "consumer affairs" person, it may be worth it to call them and see if they will do a story on them (especially if the lawn company gives you any "lip", which they OFTEN do). This would not be worth suing, because I can't really prove much economic damage, and it's not very spectacular. The plants may or may not grow out of the damage, and it's just a few plants affected -- all my yellow squash and maybe a few of my tomatoes and peppers, but the tomatoes and peppers have just about recovered. Only the squash was actually sprayed, and a little drift or overspray onto some raspberries. They must have used an ester formulation rather than amine, and the tomatoes and peppers just got a whiff of it. I think I'd get more satisfaction treating this as an EPA thing or a criminal tresspass issue; I don't think I could get anyone to take the criminal complaint seriously, but the regulatory issues should fly if I can find the right agency to complaint to. I'm having enough trouble this year with rabbits, squirrels, roaming cats, and cool nights. I don't need this kind of trouble on top of it. At least the beans look good and they are growing faster than the rabbits can eat them. Best regards, Bob Getting money from them isn't the point. The point is that they have to pay someone (not a lawyer) to go to small claims court and deal with the issue. This should result in a company-wide memo warning their sprayers to avoid gardens. This will not only keep it from happening to you again, it'll help a whole lot of other gardeners. Ray Drouillard |
#26
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Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)
zxcvbob wrote:
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use herbicides. Who issues that license? The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed 2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the little ChemLawn sign in their front yard. While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done. Bob Chemlawn got me a few years ago, here's what happened: http://www.dontveter.com/howtogrow/chemlawn.html Don Tveter -- ************************************************** ********************** The Pattern Recognition Basis of Artificial Intelligence Backpropagator's Review NN freeware for UNIX and PCs A Professional BP Version for X and Windows ************************************************** ********************** Don Tveter http://www.dontveter.com ************************************************** ********************** |
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