I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.

Bob

should be your states agrigulture department


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.

Bob

zxcvbob wrote:
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.

Bob


Bob,

Sorry to hear about your garden. Most states regulate the
lawn care industry but, in most cases, the "safe use" of
herbicides is not done very well. You may also check with
your county, some have some regulations that they must follow.

One way to deal with companies like that is to sue them in
small claims court (sometimes not worth the trouble). If
you have a local TV station that has a "consumer affairs"
person, it may be worth it to call them and see if they will
do a story on them (especially if the lawn company gives you
any "lip", which they OFTEN do).
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

Digital Camera: HP PhotoSmart 850

For pictures of my garden flowers visit
http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Bill R wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:

I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they
sprayed 2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I
recognized the twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I
even found the little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign,
another neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before
about them leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when
they were done.

Bob



Bob,

Sorry to hear about your garden. Most states regulate the lawn care
industry but, in most cases, the "safe use" of herbicides is not done
very well. You may also check with your county, some have some
regulations that they must follow.

One way to deal with companies like that is to sue them in small claims
court (sometimes not worth the trouble). If you have a local TV station
that has a "consumer affairs" person, it may be worth it to call them
and see if they will do a story on them (especially if the lawn company
gives you any "lip", which they OFTEN do).


This would not be worth suing, because I can't really prove much
economic damage, and it's not very spectacular. The plants may or may
not grow out of the damage, and it's just a few plants affected -- all
my yellow squash and maybe a few of my tomatoes and peppers, but the
tomatoes and peppers have just about recovered. Only the squash was
actually sprayed, and a little drift or overspray onto some raspberries.
They must have used an ester formulation rather than amine, and the
tomatoes and peppers just got a whiff of it.

I think I'd get more satisfaction treating this as an EPA thing or a
criminal tresspass issue; I don't think I could get anyone to take the
criminal complaint seriously, but the regulatory issues should fly if I
can find the right agency to complaint to.

I'm having enough trouble this year with rabbits, squirrels, roaming
cats, and cool nights. I don't need this kind of trouble on top of it.
At least the beans look good and they are growing faster than the
rabbits can eat them.

Best regards,
Bob

zxcvbob wrote:
Bill R wrote:
Sorry to hear about your garden. Most states regulate the lawn care
industry but, in most cases, the "safe use" of herbicides is not
done
very well. You may also check with your county, some have some
regulations that they must follow.

One way to deal with companies like that is to sue them in small
claims
court (sometimes not worth the trouble). If you have a local TV
station
that has a "consumer affairs" person, it may be worth it to call
them
and see if they will do a story on them (especially if the lawn
company
gives you any "lip", which they OFTEN do).


This would not be worth suing, because I can't really prove much
economic damage, and it's not very spectacular. The plants may or may
not grow out of the damage, and it's just a few plants affected -- all
my yellow squash and maybe a few of my tomatoes and peppers, but the
tomatoes and peppers have just about recovered. Only the squash was
actually sprayed, and a little drift or overspray onto some
raspberries.
They must have used an ester formulation rather than amine, and the
tomatoes and peppers just got a whiff of it.

I think I'd get more satisfaction treating this as an EPA thing or a
criminal tresspass issue; I don't think I could get anyone to take the
criminal complaint seriously, but the regulatory issues should fly if
I
can find the right agency to complaint to.

I'm having enough trouble this year with rabbits, squirrels, roaming
cats, and cool nights. I don't need this kind of trouble on top of
it.
At least the beans look good and they are growing faster than the
rabbits can eat them.

While I like the idea of the TV station's consumer affairs, if they
don't put the right spin on the story (which is likely if the ChemLawn
people jump at the chance to make things right in front of the camera),
it's just free advertising for ChemLawn. On the other hand, if the
consumer affairs reporter puts the right spin on it, the station could
expand it into a story on how organic gardening is now more in favor
than better living through chemicals.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is having a talk with the
neighbors. Tell them how disappointed you are because of ChemLawn, and
show them the damage. They may not be aware that those chemicals aren't
magic chemicals that only do good. Get the right dialog going, and you
can show them ways they can do without the expense of ChemLawn next
year. It won't save this year's veggies, but it may protect future years
veggies.

Of course call ChemLawn so no one can say you didn't give them a chance
to fix things, but then follow through with complaints to your state's
agriculture department, environmental protection department, any local
county or city departments... well, just about anyone who'll take a
complaint. The complaint may not result in action, but even if they sit
in a file until enough other complaints come in, they doing some good.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Get Black and Decker Landscaping Tools He
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blac...ker/index.html

***IMMEDIATELY*** call your town hall when they open on Monday morning and
find out what your judge needs (paperwork, photographs, etc) in order to
charge the spray service with civil trespass. You can include the neighbor,
too, if they become beligerent about the situation. I went through this
successfully about 4 years ago here in Rochester NY.

If anyone wants to start a debate about whether this qualifies as trespass,
please save your energy. This is not a guess or a theory on my part. Our
local judge was prepared to issue an injunction to keep my neighbor from
allowing Chem Lawn to spray along our property border. He told me to inform
my neighbor and the spray company that the police would be ordered to arrest
them on the spot if the stupidity continued. This did the trick nicely.

Unfortunately, lawn spray companies will hire anything with a driver's
license during the busy season. Doesn't matter how stupid they are, and they
most definitely ARE stupid.

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.

Bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...


I think I'd get more satisfaction treating this as an EPA thing or a
criminal tresspass issue; I don't think I could get anyone to take the
criminal complaint seriously, but the regulatory issues should fly if I
can find the right agency to complaint to.

See my other post. Trespass is the way to go. You'll need to show pictures
to a judge, indicating that since your vegetables are near the property
line, Chem Lawn cannot spray anywhere near that line. Get on this
immediately.

It's unlikely that you'll be able to get any sort of monetary reward for
your plants. But, keep in mind that it's probably not safe to eat anything
from the ones which recover, at least during this season. For more about
this, contact your state's environmental department.

Interestingly, this is a subsidized house owned by the county. The
county owns and maintains it and rents it out to poor people. I'm
pretty sure the county hires the lawn service, not the occupant -- so I
would be injoining the sheriff. g
The county attorney's office is who I'll call first about the civil
trespass.

Thanks, regards,
Bob


Doug Kanter wrote:
***IMMEDIATELY*** call your town hall when they open on Monday morning and
find out what your judge needs (paperwork, photographs, etc) in order to
charge the spray service with civil trespass. You can include the neighbor,
too, if they become beligerent about the situation. I went through this
successfully about 4 years ago here in Rochester NY.

If anyone wants to start a debate about whether this qualifies as trespass,
please save your energy. This is not a guess or a theory on my part. Our
local judge was prepared to issue an injunction to keep my neighbor from
allowing Chem Lawn to spray along our property border. He told me to inform
my neighbor and the spray company that the police would be ordered to arrest
them on the spot if the stupidity continued. This did the trick nicely.

Unfortunately, lawn spray companies will hire anything with a driver's
license during the busy season. Doesn't matter how stupid they are, and they
most definitely ARE stupid.

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.

Bob

Doug Kanter wrote:
***IMMEDIATELY*** call your town hall when they open on Monday morning
and
find out what your judge needs (paperwork, photographs, etc) in order
to
charge the spray service with civil trespass. You can include the
neighbor,
too, if they become beligerent about the situation. I went through
this
successfully about 4 years ago here in Rochester NY.

If anyone wants to start a debate about whether this qualifies as
trespass,
please save your energy. This is not a guess or a theory on my part.
Our
local judge was prepared to issue an injunction to keep my neighbor
from
allowing Chem Lawn to spray along our property border. He told me to
inform
my neighbor and the spray company that the police would be ordered to
arrest
them on the spot if the stupidity continued. This did the trick
nicely.

Oh, I can't pass this up.

Trespass is defined by state statute. What's true in New York may not be
true elsewhere.

A few years ago there was some debate about some guy in New York being
arrested at a shopping center for something or another. In the middle of
that debate I decided to go to the horse's mouth, and read the New York
statutes. They were quite different than other states. As I recall there
were even degrees of trespass, some being civil, and others being
criminal.

As for going down to the "town hall" to get a judge, that's a bit of a
unique thing by area as well. When I lived in Wisconsin, nearly every
incorporated municipality had a court. Out here in Oregon, few do. In
both places, you don't just go down and get to see a judge. You have to
file a motion, and be placed on a docket or calendar. And when you file
your motion, you need to specify which particular law is being broken,
and how. If you are seeking a remedy, you're going to need to specify
that as well. Unless you're really savvy, and have some time on your
hands, you're going to need a lawyer to get through this process.

You may also find that in many places cases like this (involving little
monetary damage, and not likely to be an immediate danger to health or
safety) your case will be diverted from the court system to mediation.

If running down to town hall, and showing a judge some pictures that
morning works were you are, then that's a viable option. I'd have to say
you're in the minority.

Also, since the OP has added the information that the house is owned by
the county, and rented, it probably wouldn't even be as simple as your
situation even if that unique option was available. In most places a
municipal judge doesn't have jurisdiction to order the county to do
anything.

The court system is seldom the answer to neighbor disputes. And it
certainly should never be the first thing anyone tries.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Get Black and Decker Landscaping Tools He
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blac...ker/index.html

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.


One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually see the
ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion? (I'm not
doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know that in court
you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a situation like
this.)

If you have the equipment and can estimate when they'll be returning, it
might be worth setting up something that would videotape them completing the
service.

A friend of mine used to use our local ChemLawn company to do his yard. His
neighbor worked for the FBI. One day while the neighbor was working at home
he saw the ChemLawn guy drive up, get out of the vehicle, write up a bill,
and place it on the customer's door. He never actually did any kind of
service. Rather than drop the company upon finding out about this, he
arranged some video equipment he had to tape when the company came out the
next time and had a videotape showing a repeat of the previous occurence.

It's amazing how quickly one can get a refund for all money paid when the
company is presented with clear video evidence.

Tony

Tony wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.



One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually see the
ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion? (I'm not
doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know that in court
you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a situation like
this.)


I have strong circumstantial evidence, but IMHO physical evidence is
stronger than the testimony of one eye witness. Ideally, I would have
videotape, or physical evidence plus a half-dozen eye witnesses... but
if I'd known ahead of time that this was going to happen I could have
confronted the guy.

I like the idea of catching him on video next time, but I don't have the
means to do that. I may try to find out when they are coming back to
this neighborhood and plan to be home that day.

Meanwhile, I can complain to whoever issued their business license,
franchise, pesticide license, etc. If any of these are suspended for a
while, they could lose a lot of customers when they can't fullfill their
season-long lawn service contracts.

Thanks, regards,
Bob

"Warren" wrote in message
news:53EKc.91290$WX.44757@attbi_s51...
Doug Kanter wrote:
***IMMEDIATELY*** call your town hall when they open on Monday morning
and
find out what your judge needs (paperwork, photographs, etc) in order
to
charge the spray service with civil trespass. You can include the
neighbor,
too, if they become beligerent about the situation. I went through
this
successfully about 4 years ago here in Rochester NY.

If anyone wants to start a debate about whether this qualifies as
trespass,
please save your energy. This is not a guess or a theory on my part.
Our
local judge was prepared to issue an injunction to keep my neighbor
from
allowing Chem Lawn to spray along our property border. He told me to
inform
my neighbor and the spray company that the police would be ordered to
arrest
them on the spot if the stupidity continued. This did the trick
nicely.

Oh, I can't pass this up.

Trespass is defined by state statute. What's true in New York may not be
true elsewhere.

Yes. The laws elsewhere may be different. Naturally, this doesn't mean it's
not worth investigating while there's still a smoking gun, so to speak.


A few years ago there was some debate about some guy in New York being
arrested at a shopping center for something or another. In the middle of
that debate I decided to go to the horse's mouth, and read the New York
statutes. They were quite different than other states. As I recall there
were even degrees of trespass, some being civil, and others being
criminal.

As for going down to the "town hall" to get a judge, that's a bit of a
unique thing by area as well. When I lived in Wisconsin, nearly every
incorporated municipality had a court. Out here in Oregon, few do. In
both places, you don't just go down and get to see a judge.


Perhaps, but at most courthouses, there'll be a clerk who knows what he/she
is talking about, and that person can provide the guidance necessary to get
things on track quickly. I was lucky. The judge happened to be my son's
baseball coach, so I didn't need a middleman for advice. He just said "do x,
y and z and you're in business". He said the civil trespass laws were often
interpreted to include all sorts of "lively objects" entering another
person's property, like chemicals, stray baseballs, and especially dogs.


You may also find that in many places cases like this (involving little
monetary damage, and not likely to be an immediate danger to health or
safety) your case will be diverted from the court system to mediation.

There *is* an immediate danger to health. A food crop has been contaminated
with a chemical which cannot be demonstrated as safe.


If running down to town hall, and showing a judge some pictures that
morning works were you are, then that's a viable option. I'd have to say
you're in the minority.

A guess on your part, but it's a free country.


Also, since the OP has added the information that the house is owned by
the county, and rented, it probably wouldn't even be as simple as your
situation even if that unique option was available. In most places a
municipal judge doesn't have jurisdiction to order the county to do
anything.

The court system is seldom the answer to neighbor disputes. And it
certainly should never be the first thing anyone tries.

In my situation, the neighbor had been told several times that the spray
company was being careless. The neighbor's response: "If the stuff's not
safe, how come they're allowed to sell it?" In cases of stupidity, nothing
works except a bucket of ice cold water, in a legal sense. You're right to
say that the legal avenue should be a last resort. But, in order for a
neighbor to understand the dangers of certain chemicals, they must possess a
certain level of education and intellect. In my situation, this was not the
case.

"Tony" wrote in message
...
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.


One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually see the
ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion? (I'm not
doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know that in court
you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a situation like
this.)

The OP's state environmental agency can refer him to a laboratory which can
test plant samples for the presence of the suspected chemicals.

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Tony wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...

I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.



One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually see the
ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion? (I'm not
doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know that in
court
you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a situation like
this.)


I have strong circumstantial evidence, but IMHO physical evidence is
stronger than the testimony of one eye witness. Ideally, I would have
videotape, or physical evidence plus a half-dozen eye witnesses... but
if I'd known ahead of time that this was going to happen I could have
confronted the guy.

I like the idea of catching him on video next time, but I don't have the
means to do that. I may try to find out when they are coming back to
this neighborhood and plan to be home that day.

Meanwhile, I can complain to whoever issued their business license,
franchise, pesticide license, etc. If any of these are suspended for a
while, they could lose a lot of customers when they can't fullfill their
season-long lawn service contracts.

Thanks, regards,
Bob

Although it won't help in your present dilemma, get in touch with your
county & state legislators and see if anyone's already discussing the idea
of forcing the lawn spray idiots to give neighbors 2-3 days' notice before
they treat lawns. It's gone back and forth in my county legislature.
Unfortunately, the chemical companies are still playing golf with the right
people in government, but we're closing to having a law here.

If they use over the counter stuff, no license are needed.

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The *******s treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.

Bob


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