Liz McGuire wrote:
All,

I've been doing a lot of research on how to keep plants and am hoping
someone would be kind enough to confirm or correct my conclusions and
answer some questions.

1. I understand that different plants need varying amounts of light
and some need a substrate while others will attach to rocks or
driftwood; also, different plants grow to different sizes. This
should all be researched and the proper plants/conditions
chosen/arranged. Makes sense.

Can anyone give a general listing of how many watts per gallon equate
to low, medium and high lighting?

There seems to be some difference in the light requirements with very
small tanks (those under 10g?) - is it that they need more watts per
gallon (because the wattage is so low) or that they don't need as many
watts because they're more shallow, or....?

the deeper the water the more light needed /gal

2. Plants need carbon - this can come from CO2 (either what's in the
water or from an injection system) or from a liquid like Flourish
Excel. There are tests to measure CO2 in water, these or the
instructions on the bottle (plus observation) can be used to determine
amounts needed.

my plants do fine with no injection of any kind. fish suppply plant food
plants supply fish air and some food.

3. Plants need nutrients. From what I've read, it's possible they'll
get enough ammonia, nitrite, nitrate from the fish (but testing is
needed and if the nitrate is too low, it may be necessary to add
nitrate).

same as above

Phosphate may come from your water; depending on how much your water
has, you may need to add some. There are test kits for this.

Potassium - this probably needs to be added. There are some tests,
but they seem rare and pretty expensive. Probably best to follow the
directions for the fertilizer and/or use "nutrient deficiency"
symptoms to determine if this is needed.

"Trace nutrients" - it seems like the amount needed is based on the
results of iron tests or that you simply add based on the
recommendations on the bottle. (Is it safe to assume that calcium,
magnesium and sulfate tests aren't needed (for the average person)?).

Which of these (trace, nitrate, phosphate, potassium) can come from
the substrate (at least for plants planted in the substrate)? Do any
of these nutrients leach into the water for plants not planted in the
substrate?

adain I would not use anything special if you have fish unless you
notice problems, then ask

Assuming the plants, lighting, carbon (dioxide), substrate and
fertilizers are all properly selected / applied, one should have a
healthy planted tank, no?

Thanks,

Liz
if plants were heathy to start and also PH and hardness may play a role
in more sensitive plants. start with hardy and go from there as with
fish use the kiss method (Keeep It Simple Stupid), never liked the
stupid part of that saying.

Thanks, Justice - good to know there are folks out there who are
successful with this approach (I've read everything from "just throw
the plants in there" to what appear to be algebraic formulas!)

Liz


Justice wrote:

if plants were heathy to start and also PH and hardness may play a role
in more sensitive plants. start with hardy and go from there as with
fish use the kiss method (Keeep It Simple Stupid), never liked the
stupid part of that saying.

There should also be some online articles for
easy-care plants. I have those and don't do
any CO2 injection. One tank has only gravel
as a substrate. Plants do fine. Java Fern,
various Crypts, maybe a sword or two (I still
can't ID some plants!). Lighting is what came
with the hoods (flourescent), nothing extra.
I only use fertilizer in the tank that has a gravel
substrate and only about once a month; the other
tanks have Profile under gravel and get their
fertilizer from the fish. I have baby plants all
over the place.

Gail

Thanks, Gail. I'm not so much looking for easy-to-care-for plants as
for whether or not I have these basic principles down right. If so,
then I know I'm headed in the right direction and can focus my
research accordingly - if not, I need to understand where I'm off and
correct course (so to speak).

But I do appreciate knowing what is working for you and that it can be
easy.

Thanks,

Liz


Gail Futoran wrote:

There should also be some online articles for
easy-care plants. I have those and don't do
any CO2 injection. One tank has only gravel
as a substrate. Plants do fine. Java Fern,
various Crypts, maybe a sword or two (I still
can't ID some plants!). Lighting is what came
with the hoods (flourescent), nothing extra.
I only use fertilizer in the tank that has a gravel
substrate and only about once a month; the other
tanks have Profile under gravel and get their
fertilizer from the fish. I have baby plants all
over the place.

Gail

Liz McGuire" wrote in message
...
Thanks, Gail. I'm not so much looking for easy-to-care-for plants as
for whether or not I have these basic principles down right. If so,
then I know I'm headed in the right direction and can focus my
research accordingly - if not, I need to understand where I'm off and
correct course (so to speak).

But I do appreciate knowing what is working for you and that it can be
easy.

Thanks,

Liz

Good approach!
Looking back at your original post, let me make
a stab at a few questions:
1. Lighting. I can't comment on #watts per gal since
I don't bother with that. One point re your question:

There seems to be some difference in the light requirements with very
small tanks (those under 10g?) - is it that they need more watts per
gallon (because the wattage is so low) or that they don't need as many
watts because they're more shallow, or....?

Depth does affect the lighting needs. Bigger tanks
tend to be deeper. I prefer the long version of
tanks bigger than 10 g because my fish are small
and I believe I can "fit" more fish in with greater
surface area. That might be another reason why
my "easy care" plants do well with minimal light.
Anyhoo, if you have standard tanks you do have
to take depth into account.

Skipping onward:
3. Nutrients
Which of these (trace, nitrate, phosphate, potassium) can come from
the substrate (at least for plants planted in the substrate)? Do any
of these nutrients leach into the water for plants not planted in the
substrate?

It's my understanding that with the right substrate
you don't really need to add anything else. I
don't add any of the nutrients you mention to the
three tanks with the Profile+gravel substrate and
after a year all plants continue to thrive and reproduce.
But again, that might not fit all situations (or plants).

Assuming the plants, lighting, carbon (dioxide), substrate and
fertilizers are all properly selected / applied, one should have a
healthy planted tank, no?

Yep. Assuming you don't add fish that love to
tear up plants!

There are some good books available, if you're
interested in going that route. I did research online
but still ended up buying Diana Walstad's "Ecology
of the Planted Aquarium". Not everyone in the
hobby subscribes to her approach, but it worked
for me. As usual, YMMV. g

Let us know how your research progresses.

Gail

Thanks again, Gail. I'll check out the book!

Regarding fish that tear up plants - sounds fun, but probably isn't
G Fortunately, the betta is pretty entertaining, so I won't go
looking!

Liz


Gail Futoran wrote:

There are some good books available, if you're
interested in going that route. I did research online
but still ended up buying Diana Walstad's "Ecology
of the Planted Aquarium". Not everyone in the
hobby subscribes to her approach, but it worked
for me. As usual, YMMV. g

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:32:41 -0700, Liz McGuire wrote:

Regarding fish that tear up plants - sounds fun, but probably isn't G
Fortunately, the betta is pretty entertaining, so I won't go looking!

Next time you set up a tank from scratch, try some EcoComplete for a
substrate. It's not cheap, but plants love it. You can mix it (I did)
up to half and half with some fine gravel or coarse sand to make it go
further.

And dosing with Flourish Excel is almost as good as CO2 injection and a
lot easier and cheaper.

Also, give the plants a few weeks to get settled in before you add any
fish. If you add fish slowly, you'll never see any ammonia or nitrite -
the plants gobble it up.

For a 10 gallon tank (or a 18 gallon tall) you can get either a
fluorescent or an incndescent hood. Get the incandescent and use two of
the screwin 6500K fluorescents in it. That'll give you plenty of light.
The bulbs are available at Walmart for less than the pet stores charge.

And speaking of the 18 gallon, tall tanks do give you the opportunity to
grow some plants that won't fit in a low tank.

I'm not trying to come off as an expert, just reporting what's worked for
me. One of these days I'll get some pictures that don't have reflected
glare and I'll post them on my web site.

Good luck.