My wife and I are in the process of building a new house, complete with a
265 gallon aquarium built into the family room wall. It will be accessed
from a room behind it.
My question deals with lighting and filtration. We want to do a planted
discus tank. The tank comes pre-plumbed and reef ready for a wet/dry
filter, so that would obviously by my preference. But I am concerned about
the biological filtration of the wet/dry robbing nutrients from the plants.
Anyone have thoughts on this, or a better suggestion?
The next question deals with lighting. Let me give some dimensions so
everyone understands what we are dealing with: The tank, which is glass,
measures 7 feet long, and 2 feet front-to-back. Here's the kicker: it's 32
inches deep! Obviously this will take some serious lighting to reach the
bottom of the tank with any measure of intensity. How should I light it?
I'm open to all thoughts; Compact fluorescents, MHs, VHO, standard
fluorescents, etc. Keeping in mind these factors: long term cost of use,
replacement bulb cost and frequency, heat, and plant health.
Up front cost is not really an issue in this case. A tip for any fish geek
that builds a house: If you build your tank in, as part of the house, all
of the upfront costs of the tank, including the accessories can be included
in your home loan, since it's a permanent part of the house...a very small
addition to the payments, for years of enjoyment.
Thanks for the help.
Scott

Can I come live with you?

NOYB wrote in message
...
My wife and I are in the process of building a new house, complete with a
265 gallon aquarium built into the family room wall. It will be accessed
from a room behind it.
My question deals with lighting and filtration. We want to do a planted
discus tank. The tank comes pre-plumbed and reef ready for a wet/dry
filter, so that would obviously by my preference. But I am concerned
about
the biological filtration of the wet/dry robbing nutrients from the
plants.
Anyone have thoughts on this, or a better suggestion?
The next question deals with lighting. Let me give some dimensions so
everyone understands what we are dealing with: The tank, which is glass,
measures 7 feet long, and 2 feet front-to-back. Here's the kicker: it's
32
inches deep! Obviously this will take some serious lighting to reach the
bottom of the tank with any measure of intensity. How should I light it?
I'm open to all thoughts; Compact fluorescents, MHs, VHO, standard
fluorescents, etc. Keeping in mind these factors: long term cost of use,
replacement bulb cost and frequency, heat, and plant health.
Up front cost is not really an issue in this case. A tip for any fish
geek
that builds a house: If you build your tank in, as part of the house, all
of the upfront costs of the tank, including the accessories can be
included
in your home loan, since it's a permanent part of the house...a very small
addition to the payments, for years of enjoyment.
Thanks for the help.
Scott

NOYB wrote:

The next question deals with lighting. Let me give some dimensions so
everyone understands what we are dealing with: The tank, which is glass,
measures 7 feet long, and 2 feet front-to-back. Here's the kicker: it's 32
inches deep! Obviously this will take some serious lighting to reach the
bottom of the tank with any measure of intensity. How should I light it?
I'm open to all thoughts; Compact fluorescents, MHs, VHO, standard
fluorescents, etc. Keeping in mind these factors: long term cost of use,
replacement bulb cost and frequency, heat, and plant health.

MH's with good reflectors will do the trick, look no further.
Several years ago the MH's weren't cost effective, the lumen/watt
ratio was bad compared to luminaires, not to mention initial cost.
Today they're usually at 95lm/W and initial cost.. yea, you said it
:-)
--

Vallo Kallaste

Thanks. Do you think just MH, or a combination with something else? How
many MH lights do you think I would need...3...4? What size? Thanks for
the help...It's been very difficult to find answers for this size tank.
"Vallo Kallaste" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

The next question deals with lighting. Let me give some dimensions so
everyone understands what we are dealing with: The tank, which is
glass,
measures 7 feet long, and 2 feet front-to-back. Here's the kicker:
it's 32
inches deep! Obviously this will take some serious lighting to reach
the
bottom of the tank with any measure of intensity. How should I light
it?
I'm open to all thoughts; Compact fluorescents, MHs, VHO, standard
fluorescents, etc. Keeping in mind these factors: long term cost of
use,
replacement bulb cost and frequency, heat, and plant health.

MH's with good reflectors will do the trick, look no further.
Several years ago the MH's weren't cost effective, the lumen/watt
ratio was bad compared to luminaires, not to mention initial cost.
Today they're usually at 95lm/W and initial cost.. yea, you said it
:-)
--

Vallo Kallaste

"Vallo Kallaste" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:

The next question deals with lighting. Let me give some dimensions so
everyone understands what we are dealing with: The tank, which is glass,
measures 7 feet long, and 2 feet front-to-back. Here's the kicker: it's
32
inches deep! Obviously this will take some serious lighting to reach the
bottom of the tank with any measure of intensity. How should I light it?
I'm open to all thoughts; Compact fluorescents, MHs, VHO, standard
fluorescents, etc. Keeping in mind these factors: long term cost of use,
replacement bulb cost and frequency, heat, and plant health.

Metal halides would be the only option, IMO. Your tank is around 260 gal.
To get decent lighting for that tank, I'd recommend four metal halides of 150W
each. That will give you around 2.25W/gal, which should be just about right.
You could get away with 3 of the metal halides plus two fluoros as well, but
that will make fitting the lights into a fixture more difficult. (You can get a
Giesemann light with 3 x 150W MH plus 2 x 58W fluoros; check
www.giesemann.de for the System 260 Moonlight lamp. But be warned:
these lamps are *very* expensive. (On the Giesemann site, the English
version has a number of broken links, so check out the German version
as well.))

The most cost-effective solution IMO would be to use four 150W metal
halide pendant lamps. These are available from a large number of
manufacturers.

Cheers,

Michi.
--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
Triodia Technologies http://www.triodia.com/staff/michi

But I am concerned about
the biological filtration of the wet/dry robbing nutrients from the plants.

Don't be. You will have plenty of nutrients and adding KNO3 is simple
if you need more NO3, topping off with KNO3 is ideal and what folks
want.
Any build up of NH4 and that spells trouble and algae.
The bacteria will not remove any PO4, K etc, plants will. It's mainly
the N compounds that are removed by bacteria in larger amounts.
Bacteria are a back up for the plants should excess NH4 be produced
froma heavy fish load or a high feeding rate or large disturbances to
the tank's plants(This can be in the form of a large pruning, poor NO3
levels which result in stunting of the plant, PO4 levels at or near
zero chronically, no CO2 etc).

Better to have bacteria than algae.

It is much better having NO3 in a tank which wet/drys are very
effective at converting the NH4(Food, fish waste) into NO3 which is a
good thing for plants as long as it's not too high (15ppm or less).
Plant are rather effective when healthy at accomplishing this removal
and seem to get to the NH4 before the bacteria do.

Wet/dry sump maintain a constant water level in the tank itself and
this allows for much easier maintenance and looks. They allow a place
to put everything like a good CO2 reactor, heater's etc. They are very
easy to clean the prefilter fast. I've never had to clean the bio
section ever. They remove only the water with the lowest dissolved CO2
levels in it and the highest O2 levels. No reflected light from a scum
surface layer so all of the light possible gets into the tank and the
surface is crystal clear.
1000GPH is fine at whatever head pressure the tank height requires for
that rate of flow. So for example, if the head pressure is about 4-5
ft, then you'd need a 1500GPH and at 4 ft it'd have about 1000GPH etc.

measures 7 feet long, and 2 feet front-to-back. Here's the kicker: it's 32
inches deep! Obviously this will take some serious lighting to reach the
bottom of the tank with any measure of intensity. How should I light it?
I'm open to all thoughts; Compact fluorescents, MHs, VHO, standard
fluorescents, etc. Keeping in mind these factors: long term cost of use,
replacement bulb cost and frequency, heat, and plant health.

What about getting in and out of this large garden which you will need
to get in and trim every often? I think access and ease of maintenace
is a huge issue.
Open top tanks with MH's are ideal for this tank type.

Don't make it hard to get to. Make a quick drain and quick fill device
on your main water pipe. Set this up so you can do a rapid water
change and refill without using anything except two ball valve to
remove water and one to let the water back in. If set up right, it
should take about 5-10minutes to do a 50% water change and not need to
lift a bucket etc.
Add fresh plant nutrients back, and repeat weekly.

Up front cost is not really an issue in this case.

They make rather pricey electronic MH ballast but they are 100%
silent, use less electric, burn the bulbs brighter etc.
Getting the most out of your electric and making into light for the
plants is the big goal and also using bulbs that don't cost an arm.
The cheap bulbs in the 4300K range work super for plant tanks,
although some don't like the slight yellowish color. With open tops,
the yellowish color is far less harsh to folk's eyes. Run about
12-19$. 5500K 6500K run about 40-80$.

I'd go with 3-4 x 175W. You can buy the Advance tar ballast and DIY
much cheaper.
They sell the pendant globes with light socket wire etc for about
40-60$ each. Just add ballast(for the electronic version) and coil for
the tar.
Run the wires through the wall etc to make it look nice.
You can have a light rail type box made at a sheet metal shop made
from aluminum at a reasonable rate and suspend it.

You can plant house plants around the tank, on ledges etc near the
tank so to take advantage of your spill light from the MH's. This will
also blur the aquatic realm/ part into the terrestrial portion of the
house. It makes the area feel like a jungle/garden, so rather than
looking into a frame, you are actually part of the scene since it
comes out past the tank into the house.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Scott

Cool. Thanks for the advice. I like your ideas about the plants around the
tank.
Cleaning of the tank should be easy. From the front it is in a wall and the
front is all you see, but behind it is a room complete with a slop sink and
a floor drain. The room will also have a 55 gallon drum attached to an RO
filter at the sink, and the sump will have float switches that let the water
in from the drum whenever the tank needs it. I've tried to make this setup
as maintenance free as I can. Any other thoughts on how to automate
further?
" wrote in message
om...
But I am concerned about
the biological filtration of the wet/dry robbing nutrients from the
plants.

Don't be. You will have plenty of nutrients and adding KNO3 is simple
if you need more NO3, topping off with KNO3 is ideal and what folks
want.
Any build up of NH4 and that spells trouble and algae.
The bacteria will not remove any PO4, K etc, plants will. It's mainly
the N compounds that are removed by bacteria in larger amounts.
Bacteria are a back up for the plants should excess NH4 be produced
froma heavy fish load or a high feeding rate or large disturbances to
the tank's plants(This can be in the form of a large pruning, poor NO3
levels which result in stunting of the plant, PO4 levels at or near
zero chronically, no CO2 etc).

Better to have bacteria than algae.

It is much better having NO3 in a tank which wet/drys are very
effective at converting the NH4(Food, fish waste) into NO3 which is a
good thing for plants as long as it's not too high (15ppm or less).
Plant are rather effective when healthy at accomplishing this removal
and seem to get to the NH4 before the bacteria do.

Wet/dry sump maintain a constant water level in the tank itself and
this allows for much easier maintenance and looks. They allow a place
to put everything like a good CO2 reactor, heater's etc. They are very
easy to clean the prefilter fast. I've never had to clean the bio
section ever. They remove only the water with the lowest dissolved CO2
levels in it and the highest O2 levels. No reflected light from a scum
surface layer so all of the light possible gets into the tank and the
surface is crystal clear.
1000GPH is fine at whatever head pressure the tank height requires for
that rate of flow. So for example, if the head pressure is about 4-5
ft, then you'd need a 1500GPH and at 4 ft it'd have about 1000GPH etc.

measures 7 feet long, and 2 feet front-to-back. Here's the kicker:
it's 32
inches deep! Obviously this will take some serious lighting to reach
the
bottom of the tank with any measure of intensity. How should I light
it?
I'm open to all thoughts; Compact fluorescents, MHs, VHO, standard
fluorescents, etc. Keeping in mind these factors: long term cost of
use,
replacement bulb cost and frequency, heat, and plant health.

What about getting in and out of this large garden which you will need
to get in and trim every often? I think access and ease of maintenace
is a huge issue.
Open top tanks with MH's are ideal for this tank type.

Don't make it hard to get to. Make a quick drain and quick fill device
on your main water pipe. Set this up so you can do a rapid water
change and refill without using anything except two ball valve to
remove water and one to let the water back in. If set up right, it
should take about 5-10minutes to do a 50% water change and not need to
lift a bucket etc.
Add fresh plant nutrients back, and repeat weekly.

Up front cost is not really an issue in this case.

They make rather pricey electronic MH ballast but they are 100%
silent, use less electric, burn the bulbs brighter etc.
Getting the most out of your electric and making into light for the
plants is the big goal and also using bulbs that don't cost an arm.
The cheap bulbs in the 4300K range work super for plant tanks,
although some don't like the slight yellowish color. With open tops,
the yellowish color is far less harsh to folk's eyes. Run about
12-19$. 5500K 6500K run about 40-80$.

I'd go with 3-4 x 175W. You can buy the Advance tar ballast and DIY
much cheaper.
They sell the pendant globes with light socket wire etc for about
40-60$ each. Just add ballast(for the electronic version) and coil for
the tar.
Run the wires through the wall etc to make it look nice.
You can have a light rail type box made at a sheet metal shop made
from aluminum at a reasonable rate and suspend it.

You can plant house plants around the tank, on ledges etc near the
tank so to take advantage of your spill light from the MH's. This will
also blur the aquatic realm/ part into the terrestrial portion of the
house. It makes the area feel like a jungle/garden, so rather than
looking into a frame, you are actually part of the scene since it
comes out past the tank into the house.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Scott

Any other thoughts on how to automate
further?

Just the auto top off. I'd use tap water for everything else or blend
it to get about 3-4 KH and GH. Don't go below that range. Discus do
well and bred fine at these ranges.

If all you after is high fry yields, then plant tanks are not good.
But if you want some breeding and the rearing, a plant tanks is good
place.
If you plan on not breeding ands the fish are mainly pets, then don't
worry too much about the tap unless it's extremely hard.

Not much else besides the auto top off, timer for the lights, leave
the CO2 on the same timer as the lights etc.
Dose your nutrients for the plants every 3 days or so. But that's easy
and just like feeding the fish.

Pruning the plants etc maybe the biggest chore you will have and
there's no automactic for that one.

Regards,
Tom Barr