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Old 20-04-2003, 06:20 AM
SLEngst
 
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Default Cloudy water - NO3 deficiency

A 30 gal. heavily planted, moderately fishy tank has been going quite cloudy.
I changed water - 50%, its fine for 24 hrs than becomes cloudy, again. Double
Finally got around to testing all parameters. Ammonia, zero, NO3 below
measurable with the spendy NO3 test kit, PO4 about 0.3 ppm (or is that 0.3 *
4.4?) K - 2.3ppm. Other parameters - KH - 16 deg.; GH 20, pH about 8.1 reduced
to 7.3 with the DYI-CO2 system. So I added some Seachem Nitrogen - halfway
between beginner dose and final dose I will need and water immediately cleared
up. 2 days later its cloudy, again. More NO3 its clear. Mind, I removed all
the easily accessible fish during this phase of trying to resolve the problem.
Strangely, the other 30 gal. tank that now has a fish overload does not have
those problems. I expect there's a DUH! in there somewhere as I don't overfeed.


The question is, what is the cause of the cloudiness? PO4 - NO3 ratio
imbalance, alone? Or something else I need to chase? Possible fungus or yeast
(suspects of past problems)? In this tank, there is excessive "pearling" in the
evening and it would appear that it is the algae pearling. Is this O2 or CO2
bubbles?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

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Old 20-04-2003, 06:20 AM
 
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Default Cloudy water - NO3 deficiency

(SLEngst) wrote in message ...
A 30 gal. heavily planted, moderately fishy tank has been going quite cloudy.
I changed water - 50%, its fine for 24 hrs than becomes cloudy, again. Double
Finally got around to testing all parameters. Ammonia, zero, NO3 below
measurable with the spendy NO3 test kit, PO4 about 0.3 ppm (or is that 0.3 *
4.4?) K - 2.3ppm. Other parameters - KH - 16 deg.; GH 20, pH about 8.1 reduced
to 7.3 with the DYI-CO2 system. So I added some Seachem Nitrogen - halfway
between beginner dose and final dose I will need and water immediately cleared
up. 2 days later its cloudy, again. More NO3 its clear. Mind, I removed all
the easily accessible fish during this phase of trying to resolve the problem.
Strangely, the other 30 gal. tank that now has a fish overload does not have
those problems. I expect there's a DUH! in there somewhere as I don't overfeed.


The question is, what is the cause of the cloudiness? PO4 - NO3 ratio
imbalance, alone? Or something else I need to chase? Possible fungus or yeast
(suspects of past problems)? In this tank, there is excessive "pearling" in the
evening and it would appear that it is the algae pearling. Is this O2 or CO2
bubbles?

Thanks for any help you can provide.


Now that you have added N, see what the PO4 is.
Plants need NO3 and PO4 to grow actively and produce good O2 levels.
Keeping the CO2 up when the lights are on during the entire light
cycle, not just in the morning will also help.

K seems low. I'd add some KNO3, you'll get both the K and NO3 added.
If the PO4 stays at 0.3ppm, get a new kit. It(the level) should move
at least .1ppm a day minimum in the tank. If not, either the kit is
wacky, or you don't have enough CO2, NO3, traces or K.
If you eliminate the CO2,NO3,K and traces from that, then you are left
with only one thing left.........then you can add that etc.

For K: use K2SO4, potash of sulfur
For K and NO3 use Stump remover, like Grant's brand
For PO4 you can use KH2PO4, monosodium potassium phosphate or A Fleet
enema.
For traces, most commercial brands are fine, Plantex and other dry
mixes are more economical.
You can order this or buy it locally.
www.litemanu.com

By doing a good sized weekly water change, and having a know size of
aquarium, you can add a 1/4 teaspoon say to a 20 gallon tank of KNO3,
this will give you about 11-12ppm of NO3 extra to the tank and 7ppm of
K.
Even if there's a little left in the 50% you did niot change, there's
enough no matter what for the plants. If you over/underdose, then the
next week's water change will correct for that.
Most folks only need to dose 1-3x a week. Depends on how much plant
mass and hgow much lighting you have.
Dosages are the same, the frequency of the dosages changes though.



Regards,
Tom Barr
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Old 20-04-2003, 06:20 AM
Anton
 
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Default Cloudy water - NO3 deficiency

You seem to have a green water at the beginning stage. It thrives in the a
excess of phosphates of water and high light levels (above 3wpg) of light in
the newly established tank. Once the green water develops, the nitrate
levels drop to zero, so the plants cannot outcompete gw and consume all the
phosphates since the nitrates are limiting factor for them. Once you add
nitrates, the plants can now consume the phosphates and the gw for which the
phosphates are essential dies out. However you seem to have phosphates
coming back later on. Do you use any non-aquatic plant fertilizer that has
phosphates in it? or may be you buffering the water for phosphates?


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Old 20-04-2003, 06:20 AM
SLEngst
 
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Default Cloudy water - NO3 deficiency

Tom, the CO2 is 24 - 7 DIY. Being a DIY system I was concerned that yeast might
have gotten into the system in the past, and be reflected in current
conditions. I am adding K at the same time as the NO3, also adding TMG with
every water change.

stump remover KNO3. Are all brands equal? Is a 1/4 teaspoon of
Lilly-Miller equal to a 1/4 teaspoon of brand X? The K is pretty high in the
stump remover and the well water already has 2.3 ppm at the tap, which is why
I'm dosing from separate sources.

I'm not sure this explains the cloudy water as I have 6 tanks all treated
equally and this is the only one with a significant problem.
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Old 20-04-2003, 06:20 AM
SLEngst
 
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Default Cloudy water - NO3 deficiency

Anton,

Thanks for the interest. I suppose green water's possible. No, there is no
source of PO4 going into that tank other than fish food. And it gets the same
amount of fish food per fish as the other tanks. The well water has no N or P,
only K. I did three 50% water changes in 2 days and the cloudiness came back
in two days. Before I found time to test all 6 tanks for everything I put in
some bacteria thinking I had an NH4 problem from cleaning the water and filter
system repeatedly, and the tank cleared up. Then got cloudy in a couple days -
which was when I found time to test and NH4 was zero. I have no idea what's in
the solution with the bacteria that caused a temporary clearing. I also found
that netting the fish out so I could concentrate on that tank without scaring
them silly - the process of swishing around in the plants, knocking off algae
and all the pearling of gas X on the algae temporarily cleared the tank water.
I'm now adding no fish feed, so no extra PO4 source other than some dead leaves
off some plants.The meremaid weed and wisteria are going through metamorphesis.
I don't buffer the water - what with a KH of 16. My pH control is strictly
DIY-CO2, 24-7. I'm trying to get n-p-k all in balance but not so rapidly as to
kill the clean-up crew bottom dwellers I couldn't net out.


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