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Old 20-04-2003, 06:21 AM
Danae
 
Posts: n/a
Default Java moss and java fern help

Hello everyone,

At the risk of giving too much information, I've included all my aquarium
specs at the top. Feel free to skip all of this info and head straight to
the question below

My Aquarium:
- 10 gallons
- 3 months old
- Lighting: 14W
- Temperatu 76F
- Fertilizer: None
- Substrate: Play sand
- Salt: None
- Additional C02: None
- Ammonia: 0
- Nitrites: 0
- Nitrates: ?? (don't have a test kit for it)

My Fish:
2 adult platys
1 two-month old platy
3 one-month old platys
unknown number of newborn platys
1 oto

My Plants:
Java Moss
Java Fern
Hygro polysperma
Hygro "Siamensis"
Hornwort
Anubias (I think nana)
Small amount of bacopa
Cladophora algae ball

---------------

Okay, now to the actual main part of my message For the most part,
all my plants are doing very well. My hornwort grows so fast that I need to
remove 1/3 - 1/2 of it every other week. My Hygro "Siamensis" has had to
be pruned to half it's height twice now.

Strangely enough, the plants I'm having the most trouble with right now are
the supposed "idiot proof" plants: Java fern and java moss. Some leaves
on my java fern are slowly turning brownish/black. I'm not sure if it's the
plant itself or if it's some type of algae on the plant that is causing the
discolouration. I have taken a picture of the most severely affected leaf,
though it looked slightly prior to this picture being taken as I tried to
scrape off some of the discolouration with my finger nails:

http://members.shaw.ca/oople/fish/java_fern.jpg

Any ideas what is causing the problem, or how I can prevent it from
spreading?

The second problem is that my java moss seems to actually be dying off!
When I first bought it 3 months ago with was a nice deep forest green
colour. Now, I'd say about half of the strands have turned brown.
Currently, I have a bunch of it tied down with thread to a clay pot / cave.
I have a few pics of it so you can see what's happening

http://members.shaw.ca/oople/fish/java_moss_1.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/oople/fish/java_moss_2.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/oople/fish/ja...2._closeup.jpg

Again, does anyone know the cause of the problem? Is there a way to salvage
it without having to buy a new batch and pray that it lives this time? I
wasn't really clear on how to die it down properly, so perhaps I just have
too much bunched together?

One final question. I currently am not using any fertilizer, but with so
many plants in my aquarium, I'm thinking that I'm probably running low on
nutrients for them. What's a recommended fertilizer for a low light set up
with no additional C02? Not that my oto would complain about an algae bloom


Thanks in advance!
-- April







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Old 20-04-2003, 06:21 AM
Flandry
 
Posts: n/a
Default Java moss and java fern help

Strangely enough, the plants I'm having the most trouble with right now are
the supposed "idiot proof" plants: Java fern and java moss. Some leaves
on my java fern are slowly turning brownish/black. I'm not sure if it's the
plant itself or if it's some type of algae on the plant that is causing the
discolouration. I have taken a picture of the most severely affected leaf,
though it looked slightly prior to this picture being taken as I tried to
scrape off some of the discolouration with my finger nails:


Welcome to the "Better Idiots Club", open to all who can kill java
fern and java moss. I'm in the same situation, and posted a
similar message yesterday (the photo of my afflicted Java fern is
he http://web.mit.edu/lovell/www/aquaria/java.htm

I did a search on google groups and found numerous past postings on
this condition, so don't worry, we belong to a big club. Anyway, i
haven't yet found a posting that is convincing as to the cause, but
most agree that removing all the affected leaves - even slightly
affected leaves - will stop further loss. That may mean going back to
the rhizome, but at least you'll save the plant.

So far the explanations for the cause have been:
1- An infestation of blue-green algae (cyanobacteria) that stunt the
growth of the plants in the tank and promote this problem with the
java fern
2- A sudden change in conditions leading to a condition similar to
"cryp melt", but for the java fern. In my case, the light was left
off for several days over Thanksgiving while i was out of town. In
other cases, addition of a new carbon filter or even a water change
have been blamed.
3- A lack of macro- or micronutrients.

Note that none of these are mutually exclusive. I DID notice a lot of
patches of blue-green 'algae' around the time problems began, and i
began adding fertlizer not long before the incident, so perhaps i
adjusted the deficiency to one that promotes the java fern melt. My
java moss is browning now, just like yours, but it was previously
growing like a weed. I think the culprit is me - i was spooked by the
ill effects that adding fertilizer seemed to have had on the java
fern, so i stopped adding it.

I'd suggest you add some fertilizer and see if your moss recovers.
I'm sure more experienced keepers are cringing, but right now i'm just
using some Schultz liquid fertilizer, adding a few drops each time i
change water or each week.

One final question. I currently am not using any fertilizer, but with so
many plants in my aquarium, I'm thinking that I'm probably running low on
nutrients for them. What's a recommended fertilizer for a low light set up
with no additional C02? Not that my oto would complain about an algae bloom


Did you read about making your own PMDD? That's what i'm going to do
when i get the ingredients i ordered.

Good luck. Please contact me if you find more conclusive information
than what i shared here.
  #3   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:21 AM
Rich Conley
 
Posts: n/a
Default Java moss and java fern help

I tend to find that higher light can hurt java ferns...a 10 gallon is really only
about 9" water with substrate, so 14 w is actually a decent amount of light.

Flandry wrote:

Strangely enough, the plants I'm having the most trouble with right now are
the supposed "idiot proof" plants: Java fern and java moss. Some leaves
on my java fern are slowly turning brownish/black. I'm not sure if it's the
plant itself or if it's some type of algae on the plant that is causing the
discolouration. I have taken a picture of the most severely affected leaf,
though it looked slightly prior to this picture being taken as I tried to
scrape off some of the discolouration with my finger nails:


Welcome to the "Better Idiots Club", open to all who can kill java
fern and java moss. I'm in the same situation, and posted a
similar message yesterday (the photo of my afflicted Java fern is
he http://web.mit.edu/lovell/www/aquaria/java.htm

I did a search on google groups and found numerous past postings on
this condition, so don't worry, we belong to a big club. Anyway, i
haven't yet found a posting that is convincing as to the cause, but
most agree that removing all the affected leaves - even slightly
affected leaves - will stop further loss. That may mean going back to
the rhizome, but at least you'll save the plant.

So far the explanations for the cause have been:
1- An infestation of blue-green algae (cyanobacteria) that stunt the
growth of the plants in the tank and promote this problem with the
java fern
2- A sudden change in conditions leading to a condition similar to
"cryp melt", but for the java fern. In my case, the light was left
off for several days over Thanksgiving while i was out of town. In
other cases, addition of a new carbon filter or even a water change
have been blamed.
3- A lack of macro- or micronutrients.

Note that none of these are mutually exclusive. I DID notice a lot of
patches of blue-green 'algae' around the time problems began, and i
began adding fertlizer not long before the incident, so perhaps i
adjusted the deficiency to one that promotes the java fern melt. My
java moss is browning now, just like yours, but it was previously
growing like a weed. I think the culprit is me - i was spooked by the
ill effects that adding fertilizer seemed to have had on the java
fern, so i stopped adding it.

I'd suggest you add some fertilizer and see if your moss recovers.
I'm sure more experienced keepers are cringing, but right now i'm just
using some Schultz liquid fertilizer, adding a few drops each time i
change water or each week.

One final question. I currently am not using any fertilizer, but with so
many plants in my aquarium, I'm thinking that I'm probably running low on
nutrients for them. What's a recommended fertilizer for a low light set up
with no additional C02? Not that my oto would complain about an algae bloom


Did you read about making your own PMDD? That's what i'm going to do
when i get the ingredients i ordered.

Good luck. Please contact me if you find more conclusive information
than what i shared here.


  #4   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:21 AM
Danae
 
Posts: n/a
Default Java moss and java fern help


"LeighMo" wrote in message
...

That is probably your problem. IME, when nutrients are low, it's the java

fern
and java moss that suffer. They can't compete with the faster-growing

plants
for limited nutrients.


Tropica Mastergrow is a nice, complete fertilizer. If you can't find

that, get
Seachem Flourish.


Thanks, that makes perfect sense. I'll run out and get some as soon as I
can!

-- April



  #5   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:21 AM
Danae
 
Posts: n/a
Default Java moss and java fern help


"Flandry" wrote in message
om...

Welcome to the "Better Idiots Club", open to all who can kill java
fern and java moss. I'm in the same situation, and posted a
similar message yesterday (the photo of my afflicted Java fern is
he http://web.mit.edu/lovell/www/aquaria/java.htm


Ohhhh, does membership come with a free t-shirt or a secret handshake?

Though I must say, your java fern looks in far worse shape than mine! Yikes!
I hope it recovers fully for you.

I did a search on google groups and found numerous past postings on
this condition, so don't worry, we belong to a big club. Anyway, i
haven't yet found a posting that is convincing as to the cause, but
most agree that removing all the affected leaves - even slightly
affected leaves - will stop further loss. That may mean going back to
the rhizome, but at least you'll save the plant.


Argh, I didn't want to do that, but I guess I'll have to. It is such a
nicely shaped plant at the moment. Oh well, so goes life.

snipped some great possible reasons for the cause

I'd suggest you add some fertilizer and see if your moss recovers.
I'm sure more experienced keepers are cringing, but right now i'm just
using some Schultz liquid fertilizer, adding a few drops each time i
change water or each week.


I think I'm going to try to find the Tropica Mastergrow that Leigh suggested
and start adding that. I must say, it's a rare and pleasurable experience
on a newsgroup to see multiple people recommended the same thing (i.e.
adding fertilizer).

Did you read about making your own PMDD? That's what i'm going to do
when i get the ingredients i ordered.


I've read that many people here use PMDD, but I think I'm too lazy to go
through all the work of making it just for a 10 gallon aquarium. A store
bought bottle of fertilizer would probably last me forever anyways, but
thanks for the suggestion anyways.

Good luck. Please contact me if you find more conclusive information
than what i shared here.


Will do! Thanks for all the help!
-- April




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