Building a new home and I will have a 6 foot long tank in it. Probably a
125G but possibly a 150G. The tank will sit with one short end on
the wall leaving both long sides and one short side open. I have imagined
this for a long time but it's time to stop daydreaming and start doing some
serious planning.

Due to the fact that three sides are exposed I am trying to decide on how to
plumb the tank. Oceanic offers a ready made solution in it's Reef Ready
line. They have a single overflow box installed in one corner. While the
overflow box would be exposed it wouldn't be that noticeable because of
where it is is. Problem is that the Oceanic tank is a roughly a grand!
($1000). While one from All Glass is roughly $500. Problem is All Glass has
no overflow but All Glass will drill it for me. They have a tank with 2
overflow boxes but they are in both corners and that is just not an option.

So I was thinking of ordering a drilled All Glass and installing a standpipe
for the overflow. I can disguise it with plants and/or cover it with
rocks.My concern is noise. From what I read they standpipes can be very
noisy.

Option two is overflow box(es). Problem is is has to fit on one narrow end
(24"). I am building my hood and stand, so I was thinking I could make the
stand 6" longer than the tank and just build something that would butt
against the wall and hide the overflows in there. But I really don't like
the way it would look.

I am looking for other options. I have considered having the tank drilled
and building my own corner overflow out of glass and siliconeing them in
place. I am concerned about cutting notches in glass and I don't know if I
could silicone acrylic to glass? Maybe there is way to silence standpipes?
Or another option that I have not thought of? Would love to hear some ideas.

--
Kudzu *\\
The man that always tells the truth never has to remember what he said

"Kudzu" wrote in message
...
Building a new home and I will have a 6 foot long tank in it. Probably a
125G but possibly a 150G. The tank will sit with one short end on
the wall leaving both long sides and one short side open. I have imagined
this for a long time but it's time to stop daydreaming and start doing
some
serious planning.

Due to the fact that three sides are exposed I am trying to decide on how
to
plumb the tank. Oceanic offers a ready made solution in it's Reef Ready
line. They have a single overflow box installed in one corner. While the
overflow box would be exposed it wouldn't be that noticeable because of
where it is is. Problem is that the Oceanic tank is a roughly a grand!
($1000). While one from All Glass is roughly $500. Problem is All Glass
has
no overflow but All Glass will drill it for me. They have a tank with 2
overflow boxes but they are in both corners and that is just not an
option.

So I was thinking of ordering a drilled All Glass and installing a
standpipe
for the overflow. I can disguise it with plants and/or cover it with
rocks.My concern is noise. From what I read they standpipes can be very
noisy.

Option two is overflow box(es). Problem is is has to fit on one narrow end
(24"). I am building my hood and stand, so I was thinking I could make the
stand 6" longer than the tank and just build something that would butt
against the wall and hide the overflows in there. But I really don't like
the way it would look.

I am looking for other options. I have considered having the tank drilled
and building my own corner overflow out of glass and siliconeing them in
place. I am concerned about cutting notches in glass and I don't know if I
could silicone acrylic to glass? Maybe there is way to silence standpipes?
Or another option that I have not thought of? Would love to hear some
ideas.

--
Kudzu *\\
The man that always tells the truth never has to remember what he said



First of all I'm jealous with envy... but my 75 gal will have to suffice
for now!

The 3 sided view will be awesome!

If you have either overflows or a standpipe, you will have noise....
I agree that the overflow boxes would be unsightly and if you build a
"hidden compartment" at the end of the short side to conceal the overflows
then you may have servicing issues (unless the access would be unhindered).

I personally like the idea of a standpipe and keeping them quiet (as well as
keeping overflow boxes silent) is definitely a trick. I experimented
quieting mine with prefilter sponges and adjusting the opening with various
items like a plastic golf ball (one with all the holes). Problem is that
with bacteria growth and sponge flow changes (due to debris etc) the pipe
*always* seemed to require some tweaking to keep it *silent*.



I finally gave up on that system and sold it off (tank sump and all). I now
have a Canister Filter... the silence is deafening!

Personally, I'd opt for the short side hide box and run Canister intake and
outflow tubes there.

My 2 pennies,

DJay

Personally, I'd opt for the short side hide box and run Canister intake
and
outflow tubes there.

Actually not a bad idea and I have not ruled canister filtering out.

As for noise I have a Tidepool SOS overflow/skimmer box and it is dead
silent. It took some adjusting but once you get it it doesn't make a noise
and so far has not needed any adjustment. The only noise I hear is the water
running into the sump. I keep the hose down in the water so unless the water
gets low I don't even hear that. But there is the ugly black box hanging in
the tank. I have thought of attaching a Java fern to it to help hide it. :-)

The thing I like about a sump is I can hide my heater(s),pumps, etc in
there. Plus I love the safety of no leaks. If power goes out it simple
stops. When power comes on it restarts. No fuss no muss.
--
Kudzu *\\
The man that always tells the truth never has to remember what he said

"Kudzu" wrote in message
...
Building a new home and I will have a 6 foot long tank in it. Probably
a
125G but possibly a 150G. The tank will sit with one short end on
the wall leaving both long sides and one short side open. I have
imagined
this for a long time but it's time to stop daydreaming and start doing
some
serious planning.

Kudzu, yipeee! I love planning serious tank installations (serious to me
= bigger than 55g and built into a wall ). Can I help?

Due to the fact that three sides are exposed I am trying to decide on
how to
plumb the tank. Oceanic offers a ready made solution in it's Reef Ready
line. They have a single overflow box installed in one corner. While
the
overflow box would be exposed it wouldn't be that noticeable because of
where it is is. Problem is that the Oceanic tank is a roughly a grand!
($1000). While one from All Glass is roughly $500. Problem is All Glass
has
no overflow but All Glass will drill it for me. They have a tank with 2
overflow boxes but they are in both corners and that is just not an
option.

Expensive stuff. Glass thickness is your driving cost. As the tank size
(mostly height) gets bigger, the glass gets thicker, and there is less
glass manufacturers to choose from, so the price goes astronomical. The
best price point that I've found for a new glass aquarium is the 130g
from Hagen ($495 cdn iirc). Once you go over standard thicknesses, the
$/g ratio spikes. Another nice price point, also from Hagen is their
108g either in a 5' or a 6' length (the 6' is 21" high as apposed to 24"
on the 5'). These go for about $415 cdn. Check the other manufacturers
too, but you will see that they either start too high, or there is a
significant price jump at a certain size.

So I was thinking of ordering a drilled All Glass and installing a
standpipe
for the overflow. I can disguise it with plants and/or cover it with
rocks.My concern is noise. From what I read they standpipes can be very
noisy.

Regarding noisy standpipes, agreed. I did read a report on how a smaller
diameter pipe can be installed in the center of a standpipe to cancel the
sound. The information source was credible but I have no hands-on
experience with this. Drilled tanks are easier IMO to keep quiet, but
you lose some water height. Keep in mind that any sound will echo around
your canopy. You have the option of building a canopy which is
relatively soundproof, but trapped humidity and heat can become very
problematic, so it's wise to look into a quiet filtration system.

Option two is overflow box(es). Problem is is has to fit on one narrow
end
(24"). I am building my hood and stand, so I was thinking I could make
the
stand 6" longer than the tank and just build something that would butt
against the wall and hide the overflows in there. But I really don't
like
the way it would look.

I am looking for other options. I have considered having the tank
drilled
and building my own corner overflow out of glass and siliconeing them
in
place. I am concerned about cutting notches in glass and I don't know
if I
could silicone acrylic to glass? Maybe there is way to silence
standpipes?
Or another option that I have not thought of? Would love to hear some
ideas.

AFAIK, silicone does NOT bond to acrylic.

OK, my turn, ideas time ) Here is a design (off the top of my head)
which might be adaptable to your installation. For reference, I'll call
the tank end farthest from your wall the 'far-end' and the tank end at
you wall the 'wall-end'. I'll assume you will have cabinet doors
underneath the tank. As you are designing this into the house, you will
of course have a dedicated GFI circuit, a water supply line, and a DWV
drain brought to the cabinet (in your case, I'd split the cabinet into 2
sections, electronics under the far-end, and water supply/drain into the
wall-end, with some type of wall between them to contain any splashing).
I'd also start looking for a plastic pan to fit on the wall-end (contain
any spills), and if you want to be really fancy, elevate the pan &
filters on a low shelf with a drain underneath to channel overflows.
While this might sound excessive, consider the cost & hassle of repairing
water damage to the flooring around the tank set-up, ymmv.

Filtration would be by canister filter. Inside the tank, (before
anything is put in), place a UGF plate in the far-end, and connect a
horizontal run of pipe from the UGF plate to the wall-end. This plate
becomes a very wide filter strainer, not a UGF filter. It's location
makes it a continuously running gravel vacuum. It will be covered by
river stones (3/8" to 1" diameter). This type of an input will not clog
and is virtually maintenance-free (and you don't need to gravel vac
either). It is also unlikely that there will be much in the way of
aquascaping at the far-end, so a cleared area of river stones will fit
almost any bio-tope being planned. Stack a few low stones and/or low
driftwood in this area.

At the wall-end, install a 90 degree elbow and run a pipe up the middle
of the wall-end glass to a U fitting to run canister hose down inside the
wall to your filter compartment below. You can run this right through
the wall, but I recommend running them inside some DWV pipes (3" black
ABS). This makes it easy to route hoses, wires etc up and down through
the wood framing around your wall-end.

At the filter underneath, install a T connection and a flying lead hose
(a bib ?), with shutoff valves. Weekly water changes will consist of
open/closing a few valves, and draining your water out through your
canister (backwashing your canister, and reversing the water flow through
your spray bar) into your drain (no python, no hoses, no mess). When you
have drained enough water, reverse the open/close valves and your supply
line water now feeds into your tank (backwashing through the UGF plate).
This weekly backwashing of your filter and reversing flow direction
through your hoses will significantly increase the servicing interval
needed. With the right balance, your canister servicing interval may
only become an annual event.

Note that your water supply line temperature influences this set-up. If
only using very cold water, your flow has to be very low, or you should
flow through the spray bar. You want to avoid ice-cold water appearing
on your tank's exposed warm glass bottom via the UGF plate. There are
mixing valves available at the plumbing supply. Install a mixing valve
where your hot/cold water pipes are, and your single water supply will
always be pre-set to your tank temperature.

The T connection and shut-off valves are all readily available at your
hardware store, either in the usual home plumbing stuff (high PSI) or in
the automatic water gardening stuff (low PSI). For the filtration
system, both work. For the supply line connection, you need a proper
shut-off valve. For the price difference, )it's all pretty cheap), I use
hose stuff for everything except the little elbows and adapters for the
hoses going to the tank.

Oh yeah, your filter return is at the wall-end, so you have nice
leisurely top-rear to front-bottom circulation, adaptable to almost any
bio-tope (you don't need high flow rates for their detritus pick-up power
as your sucking debris right off the bottom. Your slope from the far-end
to wall-end would rise (nothing dramatic, just enough for detritus to
roll downwards).

Let me know when you get around to thinking about the electrics, ie:
delay-start timers (to auto stop/start the filter while feeding) and
multiple lighting stages (nightlight, daylights and transitional
lighting). I'd even consider a circuit of cheap incandescent lights in
the canopy. Put a light switch grouping on the wall. This allows you to
over-ride your daylight/transitional fluorescent light program and
control the incandescents on a garden-variety light dimmer. Another
school of thought has multiple wiring circuits run to the tank, so all
your controls are done elsewhere (electrical room). Typically you would
run cct1: utility (not switched, cabinet lighting, air pumps, variable
incandescents etc), cct2:heater(s) & filters(s) (both switchable, usually
concurrently for only short periods of time), cct3: main lights, cct4 +:
extra light programs. If you are in an area of frequent power outages,
seperate filter & heaters, so filters can be easily maintained on UPS
(large tanks have less need of UPS heating).

All of this stuff is relatively cheap to plan in and install (especially
if you are doing the work yourself), but much more expensive and
laborious to add in later as an after-thought. Have fun!

ps: Do give a passing thought to heat & humidity evacuation. Depending
on your climate, and your home's air-tightness, this can become a
nuisance. In northern climates, you don't want your hot humidity getting
into your ceiling insulation where it will freeze and thaw back in. In
southern climates you might want to add some type of active or passive
ventilation method. A solid glass cover can address humidity issues and
a tall air chamber with some passive ventilation can address heat
retention. Planning is everything.

NetMax

--
Kudzu *\\
The man that always tells the truth never has to remember what he said

Expensive stuff. Glass thickness is your driving cost.

Just found a used 125 driving distance from me. Has some lighting, a sump
and some other useful items for a really good price. Have to go see it but
if it what the man says I will buy it.

Regarding noisy standpipes, agreed. I did read a report on how a smaller
diameter pipe can be installed in the center of a standpipe to cancel the
sound.

I run a SOS Tidepool overflow/skimmer box on my 65 with a couple of
Goldfish. It is virtually silent. With the other noise in the room I never
hear it. It has a cap on top of the equivilent of a standpipe on the box
outside the tank with a tube that sticks down into the water column.. So
what your saying sounds very similar and makes senese.

The only noise I ever notice coming from mine is when the sump gets low I
hear the water running into the sump. A good reminder it's past time for
some service!


AFAIK, silicone does NOT bond to acrylic.

I thought that might be the case.


OK, my turn, ideas time )

Way ahead of you on this. I didn't go into all the details but I was
planning on using many of you ideas. I am going to install a hot and cold
water line in the cabinet. I am making my own cabinet and I plan on
fiberglassing the bottom and installing a drain pipe into the water water
lines in the house. Dividing the cabinet physically with a wet and dry side.
Dedicated electrical curciut GFI protected. I guess Great Minds do think
alike! :-)

Filtration would be by canister filter. .... place a UGF plate in the
far-end,... It will be covered by
river stones (3/8" to 1" diameter). ......... Stack a few low stones and/or
low driftwood in this area.

I like this idea! I had toyed with having a barren end with rocky bottom
anyway. (GMTA) but the idea of UGF plate had not occured to me. I love that!
I have a small stump with roots I saved just as my wife was about to burn it
that will go perfect in that end too. I had it in my 65G till I switched
over to Goldfish in it. It is the perfect size! Plus cory cats love hiding
under it.

I am not to crazy about cannister filters. I use them but I really like a
sump with a fluidized bed filter better.. I can hide pumps and heaters and
anything else in the sump. I also like the extra water capacity but with a
125 that won't make much difference. Either way I can still use your idea. I
think I have some filter plates for this 65G somewhere and they would fit
perfectly in the 125.

At the wall-end, install a 90 degree elbow and run a pipe up the middle
of the wall-end glass to a U fitting to run canister hose down inside the
wall to your filter compartment below. You can run this right through
the wall, but I recommend running them inside some DWV pipes (3" black
ABS). This makes it easy to route hoses, wires etc up and down through
the wood framing around your wall-end.

I spent some time this morning at the house looking and thinking. Running a
water line in the wall is not a problem since they have not started plumbing
yet. They are still framing at this point. As I sat in the framed up window
looking where the tank is going and thinking a couple of things occured to
me. One is anything that runs out of the wall will be visable betweent the
wall the hood. Only slightly but it will be visable. On a large tank I like
to make my hood in two pieces. I make a box that will sit on top of the tank
then split it in half and hinge it. Then you can lift the front of the hood
up and over and it will rest on top of the back half of the hood. I have to
have a slight gap between it and wall so it doesn't rub the wall and skin it
up. Thats where the gap is.

I could change my hood design but this one works very well. It allows
excellent access to the tank. Important with a planted tank. Plus I can open
either front or back. This is nice for servicing hang-on filters. And if you
mount lights in each half the tank is always is lite when your working in
it. I even put switches so I turn off either half so I am not blinded by it.

After studying a while I decided the best idea is to make the stand 6"
wider than the tank. Then on the wall-end of the stand let it extend up to
the top of the hood. I can fit this end flush with wall. The 6" space leaves
me a plumbing chase to run anything up to the tank completely out of site. I
could also encase the electics in conduit for safety in the chase. While I
am not crazy aobut the look it makes changes much simpler! If I add
something down the road it would not be hard to do.


This weekly backwashing of your filter and reversing flow direction
through your hoses will significantly increase the servicing interval
needed. With the right balance, your canister servicing interval may
only become an annual event.

I like this idea a lot! Even if I went with the sump I like the idea of
being able to reverse the flow through the UGF plate. I was even thinking of
just pumping water into the tank thought this plate if I end up using an
overflow box. Have not thought all the way throught this but my first
impression is I like both ideas!

You want to avoid ice-cold water appearing on your tank's exposed warm
glass bottom via the UGF plate.

Something I had not thought of! If I install the drain I can get the temp
right before ever putting it into the tank.

Oh yeah, your filter return is at the wall-end, so you have nice
leisurely top-rear to front-bottom circulation, adaptable to almost any
bio-tope (you don't need high flow rates for their detritus pick-up power as
your sucking debris right off the bottom.

Another good point and better than pumping water in through the UGF plate.


Let me know when you get around to thinking about the electrics,

Still thinking on lighting but I normally just use a simple timer. On and
off. Haven't really given any consideration to anything else. But watching
the lights dim at the end of the cycle would be neat. I never liked the all
of sudden dark tank when it turned off. But I am used to it too.

Got to go look at some countertops. Great ideas! Keep them coming!

--
Kudzu *\\
The man that always tells the truth never has to remember what he said

"Kudzu" wrote in message
...
Expensive stuff. Glass thickness is your driving cost.

Just found a used 125 driving distance from me. Has some lighting, a
sump
and some other useful items for a really good price.

snipped for bandwidth

Way ahead of you on this. I didn't go into all the details but I was
planning on using many of you ideas. I am going to install a hot and
cold
water line in the cabinet. I am making my own cabinet and I plan on
fiberglassing the bottom and installing a drain pipe into the water
water
lines in the house. Dividing the cabinet physically with a wet and dry
side.
Dedicated electrical curciut GFI protected. I guess Great Minds do
think
alike! :-)

Or at least, common problems have common solutions. Experience is a
great teacher.

snipped a bit, I'm glad you liked the UGF plate intake idea

I am not to crazy about cannister filters. I use them but I really like
a
sump with a fluidized bed filter better.. I can hide pumps and heaters
and
anything else in the sump. I also like the extra water capacity but
with a
125 that won't make much difference. Either way I can still use your
idea. I
think I have some filter plates for this 65G somewhere and they would
fit
perfectly in the 125.

I maintain a well stocked 800g indoor pond with one fluidized filter (a
swimming pool sand filter) and backwash it every day. It's a great
system, especially as I cannot have any plants in there (Koi & poor
lighting). Howerver, the advantages of a fluidized bed (and wet/dry
filters) dimishes IMO as you move towards heavily planted tanks, so it
becomes a choice of personal preferance and familiarity. Large display
tanks so easily become huge gardens, that it's a point of consideration.

At the wall-end, install a 90 degree elbow and run a pipe up the
middle
of the wall-end glass to a U fitting to run canister hose down inside
the
wall to your filter compartment below. You can run this right
through
the wall, but I recommend running them inside some DWV pipes (3"
black
ABS). This makes it easy to route hoses, wires etc up and down
through
the wood framing around your wall-end.

I spent some time this morning at the house looking and thinking.
Running a
water line in the wall is not a problem since they have not started
plumbing
yet. They are still framing at this point. As I sat in the framed up
window
looking where the tank is going and thinking a couple of things occured
to
me. One is anything that runs out of the wall will be visable betweent
the
wall the hood. Only slightly but it will be visable. On a large tank I
like
to make my hood in two pieces. I make a box that will sit on top of the
tank
then split it in half and hinge it. Then you can lift the front of the
hood
up and over and it will rest on top of the back half of the hood. I
have to
have a slight gap between it and wall so it doesn't rub the wall and
skin it
up. Thats where the gap is.

I could change my hood design but this one works very well. It allows
excellent access to the tank. Important with a planted tank. Plus I can
open
either front or back. This is nice for servicing hang-on filters. And
if you
mount lights in each half the tank is always is lite when your working
in
it. I even put switches so I turn off either half so I am not blinded
by it.

After studying a while I decided the best idea is to make the stand 6"
wider than the tank. Then on the wall-end of the stand let it extend up
to
the top of the hood. I can fit this end flush with wall. The 6" space
leaves
me a plumbing chase to run anything up to the tank completely out of
site. I
could also encase the electics in conduit for safety in the chase.
While I
am not crazy aobut the look it makes changes much simpler! If I add
something down the road it would not be hard to do.

The wire chase will definitely save some effort, but introduce an offset
(positive offset, away from wall). Regarding the final appearance, will
it look like an aquarium butted up against a wall, or will it look like
the wall incorporated the aquarium? Do you plan to be able to move &
take the aquarium (so surface patching should be minimized), or is the
tank a feature of the house (ie: final flooring goes around the stand
instead of under), and it would be sold with the house. Built-in
aquariums are like swimming pools, they increase the house value but
reduce the number of potential buyers. In a buyer's market, might be
neutral, but in a seller's market, nice capital return ;o) IMHO.

With built-in's, I like to form the hood/stand into the architecture as
much as possible. An example of this would be a kitchen/dining room
divider tank. The stand was 2x4 framing around kitchen cabinetry. The
kitchen side facing matched the kitchen walls colour/texture and the
kitchen-side cabinet doors were identical to those in the kitchen. The
dining room side stand was faced as the dining room walls. At a glance,
the tank blended in harmoniously.

Similarly, the hood can be an offshoot of the closest wall. Another
example, in a dining room/living room divider, the aquarium is a low
divider and the entire canopy drops from the ceiling (either a fully
closed box, or hung by chains, or chains inside painted pipes to give
cleaner look). The decision to fully close the hood to the ceiling or to
leave open depends on factors such as sight-lines, sunlight directions &
ventilation control (in open concept kitchens).

An offset is a very good idea. Even flush fit installations have a trim
piece to hide the view of the glass edge. A negative offset (into the
wall) is IMO a bit trickier to do, and not really worth it unless there
is enough offset to be able to use it for plumbing concealment. A
positive offset would IMO work best if the wall formed around the tank.
The positive offset adds to the look that the tank emerged from the
house's walls ).

Functional canopy design is hindered by drywall framing, so bringing the
cabinet door look upwards is a common solution. Also using cabinetry to
close the last 8-10 inches above the tank allows you to swing-away for
better access. The last canopy I built opened in 3 stages. There was a
simple hinged door for occasional feeding (auto-feeder took care of the
twice daily flake/pellet mix). Swing-up for serious aquascaping changes
(once or twice a year). Removal for tank tear-downs (half my lighting
was attached to the canopy and the other half was attached to the wall
framing, so I still had some lights for working). For occasional
aquascaping maintainance, design for about 7-8" clearance between tank
edge and closest flourescent tube. Also keep in mind that your reach is
about 24", and more than that and you need to get your shoulder above the
tank.

snipped for bandwidth, I'm glad you liked the backwash idea

Still thinking on lighting but I normally just use a simple timer. On
and
off. Haven't really given any consideration to anything else. But
watching
the lights dim at the end of the cycle would be neat. I never liked the
all
of sudden dark tank when it turned off. But I am used to it too.

On lighting, all my kitchen diningroom and livingroom circuits are on
dimmers, powering halogen lights. I find this gives me the most
flexibility. Depending on tank location, you might find that you would
like to dim the tank lights but still be able to watch the fish if you
wanted to. Wine by the fireplace, sunsets, home theatre movies etc.
This is where you will appreciate the additional lighting control. The
gradual night-time dimming doesn't do anything for me (from a
cost-benefit perspective). I do use 2 stage lighting so tanks do not
plunge into total darkness. This is easily achieved by a small 20W
incandescent bulb on a 2nd timer. You will watch the fish go into their
wind-down routine, postponing quarrels and settling into their preferred
night-time sleeping spots.

I also use a dim wake-up light as I think that it's cruel to push that
many watts of light into a creature which does not have eyelids, but
ideally indirect sunlight wakes them up, so the wake-up light's effect is
only on very dark days (I have my main fluorescents programmed for 11AM
start).

Got to go look at some countertops. Great ideas! Keep them coming!

Ah yes, granite, SSV, laminates... have fun. If using SSV or laminates,
keep the tank away from pressed corners (ie: corner pieces) as water
ingress will cause material expansion (otherwise you need to put a tiny
bead of clear silicone in the gap once a year).

Here is another idea for you (completely untested by me). If you put a
plastic drain pan in the top of an open canopy, and pumped water up to
it, you could fill the canopy 'shelf' with a variety of terrestrial
plants feeding off of your water's nitrates (especially useful if your
nitrate production exceeds your internal nitrate removal rate). The
water could return down in a waterfall effect (for your acoustic
enjoyment), or silently down an angled hose. The terrestrial garden
above would never need water, and if left to overhang down the sides
towards the aquarium, would made a very pleasing center piece. Also
useful to hide any chains holding the far-end of the canopy. If
considering something like this though, you would probably only want to
plan it into the design, and do it later on (I know how much detail
multi-plexing there is in house design _without_ starting new things ;~)

NetMax (not just another pretty fish-face ;~)

--
Kudzu *\\
The man that always tells the truth never has to remember what he said

"Kudzu" wrote in message
...
Expensive stuff. Glass thickness is your driving cost.

Just found a used 125 driving distance from me. Has some lighting, a
sump
and some other useful items for a really good price.

snipped for bandwidth

Way ahead of you on this. I didn't go into all the details but I was
planning on using many of you ideas. I am going to install a hot and
cold
water line in the cabinet. I am making my own cabinet and I plan on
fiberglassing the bottom and installing a drain pipe into the water
water
lines in the house. Dividing the cabinet physically with a wet and dry
side.
Dedicated electrical curciut GFI protected. I guess Great Minds do
think
alike! :-)

Or at least, common problems have common solutions. Experience is a
great teacher.

snipped a bit, I'm glad you liked the UGF plate intake idea

I am not to crazy about cannister filters. I use them but I really like
a
sump with a fluidized bed filter better.. I can hide pumps and heaters
and
anything else in the sump. I also like the extra water capacity but
with a
125 that won't make much difference. Either way I can still use your
idea. I
think I have some filter plates for this 65G somewhere and they would
fit
perfectly in the 125.

I maintain a well stocked 800g indoor pond with one fluidized filter (a
swimming pool sand filter) and backwash it every day. It's a great
system, especially as I cannot have any plants in there (Koi & poor
lighting). Howerver, the advantages of a fluidized bed (and wet/dry
filters) dimishes IMO as you move towards heavily planted tanks, so it
becomes a choice of personal preferance and familiarity. Large display
tanks so easily become huge gardens, that it's a point of consideration.

At the wall-end, install a 90 degree elbow and run a pipe up the
middle
of the wall-end glass to a U fitting to run canister hose down inside
the
wall to your filter compartment below. You can run this right
through
the wall, but I recommend running them inside some DWV pipes (3"
black
ABS). This makes it easy to route hoses, wires etc up and down
through
the wood framing around your wall-end.

I spent some time this morning at the house looking and thinking.
Running a
water line in the wall is not a problem since they have not started
plumbing
yet. They are still framing at this point. As I sat in the framed up
window
looking where the tank is going and thinking a couple of things occured
to
me. One is anything that runs out of the wall will be visable betweent
the
wall the hood. Only slightly but it will be visable. On a large tank I
like
to make my hood in two pieces. I make a box that will sit on top of the
tank
then split it in half and hinge it. Then you can lift the front of the
hood
up and over and it will rest on top of the back half of the hood. I
have to
have a slight gap between it and wall so it doesn't rub the wall and
skin it
up. Thats where the gap is.

I could change my hood design but this one works very well. It allows
excellent access to the tank. Important with a planted tank. Plus I can
open
either front or back. This is nice for servicing hang-on filters. And
if you
mount lights in each half the tank is always is lite when your working
in
it. I even put switches so I turn off either half so I am not blinded
by it.

After studying a while I decided the best idea is to make the stand 6"
wider than the tank. Then on the wall-end of the stand let it extend up
to
the top of the hood. I can fit this end flush with wall. The 6" space
leaves
me a plumbing chase to run anything up to the tank completely out of
site. I
could also encase the electics in conduit for safety in the chase.
While I
am not crazy aobut the look it makes changes much simpler! If I add
something down the road it would not be hard to do.

The wire chase will definitely save some effort, but introduce an offset
(positive offset, away from wall). Regarding the final appearance, will
it look like an aquarium butted up against a wall, or will it look like
the wall incorporated the aquarium? Do you plan to be able to move &
take the aquarium (so surface patching should be minimized), or is the
tank a feature of the house (ie: final flooring goes around the stand
instead of under), and it would be sold with the house. Built-in
aquariums are like swimming pools, they increase the house value but
reduce the number of potential buyers. In a buyer's market, might be
neutral, but in a seller's market, nice capital return ;o) IMHO.

With built-in's, I like to form the hood/stand into the architecture as
much as possible. An example of this would be a kitchen/dining room
divider tank. The stand was 2x4 framing around kitchen cabinetry. The
kitchen side facing matched the kitchen walls colour/texture and the
kitchen-side cabinet doors were identical to those in the kitchen. The
dining room side stand was faced as the dining room walls. At a glance,
the tank blended in harmoniously.

Similarly, the hood can be an offshoot of the closest wall. Another
example, in a dining room/living room divider, the aquarium is a low
divider and the entire canopy drops from the ceiling (either a fully
closed box, or hung by chains, or chains inside painted pipes to give
cleaner look). The decision to fully close the hood to the ceiling or to
leave open depends on factors such as sight-lines, sunlight directions &
ventilation control (in open concept kitchens).

An offset is a very good idea. Even flush fit installations have a trim
piece to hide the view of the glass edge. A negative offset (into the
wall) is IMO a bit trickier to do, and not really worth it unless there
is enough offset to be able to use it for plumbing concealment. A
positive offset would IMO work best if the wall formed around the tank.
The positive offset adds to the look that the tank emerged from the
house's walls ).

Functional canopy design is hindered by drywall framing, so bringing the
cabinet door look upwards is a common solution. Also using cabinetry to
close the last 8-10 inches above the tank allows you to swing-away for
better access. The last canopy I built opened in 3 stages. There was a
simple hinged door for occasional feeding (auto-feeder took care of the
twice daily flake/pellet mix). Swing-up for serious aquascaping changes
(once or twice a year). Removal for tank tear-downs (half my lighting
was attached to the canopy and the other half was attached to the wall
framing, so I still had some lights for working). For occasional
aquascaping maintainance, design for about 7-8" clearance between tank
edge and closest flourescent tube. Also keep in mind that your reach is
about 24", and more than that and you need to get your shoulder above the
tank.

snipped for bandwidth, I'm glad you liked the backwash idea

Still thinking on lighting but I normally just use a simple timer. On
and
off. Haven't really given any consideration to anything else. But
watching
the lights dim at the end of the cycle would be neat. I never liked the
all
of sudden dark tank when it turned off. But I am used to it too.

On lighting, all my kitchen diningroom and livingroom circuits are on
dimmers, powering halogen lights. I find this gives me the most
flexibility. Depending on tank location, you might find that you would
like to dim the tank lights but still be able to watch the fish if you
wanted to. Wine by the fireplace, sunsets, home theatre movies etc.
This is where you will appreciate the additional lighting control. The
gradual night-time dimming doesn't do anything for me (from a
cost-benefit perspective). I do use 2 stage lighting so tanks do not
plunge into total darkness. This is easily achieved by a small 20W
incandescent bulb on a 2nd timer. You will watch the fish go into their
wind-down routine, postponing quarrels and settling into their preferred
night-time sleeping spots.

I also use a dim wake-up light as I think that it's cruel to push that
many watts of light into a creature which does not have eyelids, but
ideally indirect sunlight wakes them up, so the wake-up light's effect is
only on very dark days (I have my main fluorescents programmed for 11AM
start).

Got to go look at some countertops. Great ideas! Keep them coming!

Ah yes, granite, SSV, laminates... have fun. If using SSV or laminates,
keep the tank away from pressed corners (ie: corner pieces) as water
ingress will cause material expansion (otherwise you need to put a tiny
bead of clear silicone in the gap once a year).

Here is another idea for you (completely untested by me). If you put a
plastic drain pan in the top of an open canopy, and pumped water up to
it, you could fill the canopy 'shelf' with a variety of terrestrial
plants feeding off of your water's nitrates (especially useful if your
nitrate production exceeds your internal nitrate removal rate). The
water could return down in a waterfall effect (for your acoustic
enjoyment), or silently down an angled hose. The terrestrial garden
above would never need water, and if left to overhang down the sides
towards the aquarium, would made a very pleasing center piece. Also
useful to hide any chains holding the far-end of the canopy. If
considering something like this though, you would probably only want to
plan it into the design, and do it later on (I know how much detail
multi-plexing there is in house design _without_ starting new things ;~)

NetMax (not just another pretty fish-face ;~)

--
Kudzu *\\
The man that always tells the truth never has to remember what he said

"Kudzu" wrote in message
...
Expensive stuff. Glass thickness is your driving cost.

Just found a used 125 driving distance from me. Has some lighting, a
sump
and some other useful items for a really good price.

snipped for bandwidth

Way ahead of you on this. I didn't go into all the details but I was
planning on using many of you ideas. I am going to install a hot and
cold
water line in the cabinet. I am making my own cabinet and I plan on
fiberglassing the bottom and installing a drain pipe into the water
water
lines in the house. Dividing the cabinet physically with a wet and dry
side.
Dedicated electrical curciut GFI protected. I guess Great Minds do
think
alike! :-)

Or at least, common problems have common solutions. Experience is a
great teacher.

snipped a bit, I'm glad you liked the UGF plate intake idea

I am not to crazy about cannister filters. I use them but I really like
a
sump with a fluidized bed filter better.. I can hide pumps and heaters
and
anything else in the sump. I also like the extra water capacity but
with a
125 that won't make much difference. Either way I can still use your
idea. I
think I have some filter plates for this 65G somewhere and they would
fit
perfectly in the 125.

I maintain a well stocked 800g indoor pond with one fluidized filter (a
swimming pool sand filter) and backwash it every day. It's a great
system, especially as I cannot have any plants in there (Koi & poor
lighting). Howerver, the advantages of a fluidized bed (and wet/dry
filters) dimishes IMO as you move towards heavily planted tanks, so it
becomes a choice of personal preferance and familiarity. Large display
tanks so easily become huge gardens, that it's a point of consideration.

At the wall-end, install a 90 degree elbow and run a pipe up the
middle
of the wall-end glass to a U fitting to run canister hose down inside
the
wall to your filter compartment below. You can run this right
through
the wall, but I recommend running them inside some DWV pipes (3"
black
ABS). This makes it easy to route hoses, wires etc up and down
through
the wood framing around your wall-end.

I spent some time this morning at the house looking and thinking.
Running a
water line in the wall is not a problem since they have not started
plumbing
yet. They are still framing at this point. As I sat in the framed up
window
looking where the tank is going and thinking a couple of things occured
to
me. One is anything that runs out of the wall will be visable betweent
the
wall the hood. Only slightly but it will be visable. On a large tank I
like
to make my hood in two pieces. I make a box that will sit on top of the
tank
then split it in half and hinge it. Then you can lift the front of the
hood
up and over and it will rest on top of the back half of the hood. I
have to
have a slight gap between it and wall so it doesn't rub the wall and
skin it
up. Thats where the gap is.

I could change my hood design but this one works very well. It allows
excellent access to the tank. Important with a planted tank. Plus I can
open
either front or back. This is nice for servicing hang-on filters. And
if you
mount lights in each half the tank is always is lite when your working
in
it. I even put switches so I turn off either half so I am not blinded
by it.

After studying a while I decided the best idea is to make the stand 6"
wider than the tank. Then on the wall-end of the stand let it extend up
to
the top of the hood. I can fit this end flush with wall. The 6" space
leaves
me a plumbing chase to run anything up to the tank completely out of
site. I
could also encase the electics in conduit for safety in the chase.
While I
am not crazy aobut the look it makes changes much simpler! If I add
something down the road it would not be hard to do.

The wire chase will definitely save some effort, but introduce an offset
(positive offset, away from wall). Regarding the final appearance, will
it look like an aquarium butted up against a wall, or will it look like
the wall incorporated the aquarium? Do you plan to be able to move &
take the aquarium (so surface patching should be minimized), or is the
tank a feature of the house (ie: final flooring goes around the stand
instead of under), and it would be sold with the house. Built-in
aquariums are like swimming pools, they increase the house value but
reduce the number of potential buyers. In a buyer's market, might be
neutral, but in a seller's market, nice capital return ;o) IMHO.

With built-in's, I like to form the hood/stand into the architecture as
much as possible. An example of this would be a kitchen/dining room
divider tank. The stand was 2x4 framing around kitchen cabinetry. The
kitchen side facing matched the kitchen walls colour/texture and the
kitchen-side cabinet doors were identical to those in the kitchen. The
dining room side stand was faced as the dining room walls. At a glance,
the tank blended in harmoniously.

Similarly, the hood can be an offshoot of the closest wall. Another
example, in a dining room/living room divider, the aquarium is a low
divider and the entire canopy drops from the ceiling (either a fully
closed box, or hung by chains, or chains inside painted pipes to give
cleaner look). The decision to fully close the hood to the ceiling or to
leave open depends on factors such as sight-lines, sunlight directions &
ventilation control (in open concept kitchens).

An offset is a very good idea. Even flush fit installations have a trim
piece to hide the view of the glass edge. A negative offset (into the
wall) is IMO a bit trickier to do, and not really worth it unless there
is enough offset to be able to use it for plumbing concealment. A
positive offset would IMO work best if the wall formed around the tank.
The positive offset adds to the look that the tank emerged from the
house's walls ).

Functional canopy design is hindered by drywall framing, so bringing the
cabinet door look upwards is a common solution. Also using cabinetry to
close the last 8-10 inches above the tank allows you to swing-away for
better access. The last canopy I built opened in 3 stages. There was a
simple hinged door for occasional feeding (auto-feeder took care of the
twice daily flake/pellet mix). Swing-up for serious aquascaping changes
(once or twice a year). Removal for tank tear-downs (half my lighting
was attached to the canopy and the other half was attached to the wall
framing, so I still had some lights for working). For occasional
aquascaping maintainance, design for about 7-8" clearance between tank
edge and closest flourescent tube. Also keep in mind that your reach is
about 24", and more than that and you need to get your shoulder above the
tank.

snipped for bandwidth, I'm glad you liked the backwash idea

Still thinking on lighting but I normally just use a simple timer. On
and
off. Haven't really given any consideration to anything else. But
watching
the lights dim at the end of the cycle would be neat. I never liked the
all
of sudden dark tank when it turned off. But I am used to it too.

On lighting, all my kitchen diningroom and livingroom circuits are on
dimmers, powering halogen lights. I find this gives me the most
flexibility. Depending on tank location, you might find that you would
like to dim the tank lights but still be able to watch the fish if you
wanted to. Wine by the fireplace, sunsets, home theatre movies etc.
This is where you will appreciate the additional lighting control. The
gradual night-time dimming doesn't do anything for me (from a
cost-benefit perspective). I do use 2 stage lighting so tanks do not
plunge into total darkness. This is easily achieved by a small 20W
incandescent bulb on a 2nd timer. You will watch the fish go into their
wind-down routine, postponing quarrels and settling into their preferred
night-time sleeping spots.

I also use a dim wake-up light as I think that it's cruel to push that
many watts of light into a creature which does not have eyelids, but
ideally indirect sunlight wakes them up, so the wake-up light's effect is
only on very dark days (I have my main fluorescents programmed for 11AM
start).

Got to go look at some countertops. Great ideas! Keep them coming!

Ah yes, granite, SSV, laminates... have fun. If using SSV or laminates,
keep the tank away from pressed corners (ie: corner pieces) as water
ingress will cause material expansion (otherwise you need to put a tiny
bead of clear silicone in the gap once a year).

Here is another idea for you (completely untested by me). If you put a
plastic drain pan in the top of an open canopy, and pumped water up to
it, you could fill the canopy 'shelf' with a variety of terrestrial
plants feeding off of your water's nitrates (especially useful if your
nitrate production exceeds your internal nitrate removal rate). The
water could return down in a waterfall effect (for your acoustic
enjoyment), or silently down an angled hose. The terrestrial garden
above would never need water, and if left to overhang down the sides
towards the aquarium, would made a very pleasing center piece. Also
useful to hide any chains holding the far-end of the canopy. If
considering something like this though, you would probably only want to
plan it into the design, and do it later on (I know how much detail
multi-plexing there is in house design _without_ starting new things ;~)

NetMax (not just another pretty fish-face ;~)

--
Kudzu *\\
The man that always tells the truth never has to remember what he said

Expensive stuff. Glass thickness is your driving cost.
no offense with glass being more expensive have you thought of using lexan
(a.k.a. plexiglass) as a bit stronger then glass itself by thickness and a
bit cheaper then glass itself.
?????
"NetMax" wrote in message
...

"Kudzu" wrote in message
...
Building a new home and I will have a 6 foot long tank in it. Probably
a
125G but possibly a 150G. The tank will sit with one short end on
the wall leaving both long sides and one short side open. I have
imagined
this for a long time but it's time to stop daydreaming and start doing
some
serious planning.

Kudzu, yipeee! I love planning serious tank installations (serious to me
= bigger than 55g and built into a wall ). Can I help?

Due to the fact that three sides are exposed I am trying to decide on
how to
plumb the tank. Oceanic offers a ready made solution in it's Reef Ready
line. They have a single overflow box installed in one corner. While
the
overflow box would be exposed it wouldn't be that noticeable because of
where it is is. Problem is that the Oceanic tank is a roughly a grand!
($1000). While one from All Glass is roughly $500. Problem is All Glass
has
no overflow but All Glass will drill it for me. They have a tank with 2
overflow boxes but they are in both corners and that is just not an
option.

Expensive stuff. Glass thickness is your driving cost. As the tank size
(mostly height) gets bigger, the glass gets thicker, and there is less
glass manufacturers to choose from, so the price goes astronomical. The
best price point that I've found for a new glass aquarium is the 130g
from Hagen ($495 cdn iirc). Once you go over standard thicknesses, the
$/g ratio spikes. Another nice price point, also from Hagen is their
108g either in a 5' or a 6' length (the 6' is 21" high as apposed to 24"
on the 5'). These go for about $415 cdn. Check the other manufacturers
too, but you will see that they either start too high, or there is a
significant price jump at a certain size.

So I was thinking of ordering a drilled All Glass and installing a
standpipe
for the overflow. I can disguise it with plants and/or cover it with
rocks.My concern is noise. From what I read they standpipes can be very
noisy.

Regarding noisy standpipes, agreed. I did read a report on how a smaller
diameter pipe can be installed in the center of a standpipe to cancel the
sound. The information source was credible but I have no hands-on
experience with this. Drilled tanks are easier IMO to keep quiet, but
you lose some water height. Keep in mind that any sound will echo around
your canopy. You have the option of building a canopy which is
relatively soundproof, but trapped humidity and heat can become very
problematic, so it's wise to look into a quiet filtration system.

Option two is overflow box(es). Problem is is has to fit on one narrow
end
(24"). I am building my hood and stand, so I was thinking I could make
the
stand 6" longer than the tank and just build something that would butt
against the wall and hide the overflows in there. But I really don't
like
the way it would look.

I am looking for other options. I have considered having the tank
drilled
and building my own corner overflow out of glass and siliconeing them
in
place. I am concerned about cutting notches in glass and I don't know
if I
could silicone acrylic to glass? Maybe there is way to silence
standpipes?
Or another option that I have not thought of? Would love to hear some
ideas.

AFAIK, silicone does NOT bond to acrylic.

OK, my turn, ideas time ) Here is a design (off the top of my head)
which might be adaptable to your installation. For reference, I'll call
the tank end farthest from your wall the 'far-end' and the tank end at
you wall the 'wall-end'. I'll assume you will have cabinet doors
underneath the tank. As you are designing this into the house, you will
of course have a dedicated GFI circuit, a water supply line, and a DWV
drain brought to the cabinet (in your case, I'd split the cabinet into 2
sections, electronics under the far-end, and water supply/drain into the
wall-end, with some type of wall between them to contain any splashing).
I'd also start looking for a plastic pan to fit on the wall-end (contain
any spills), and if you want to be really fancy, elevate the pan &
filters on a low shelf with a drain underneath to channel overflows.
While this might sound excessive, consider the cost & hassle of repairing
water damage to the flooring around the tank set-up, ymmv.

Filtration would be by canister filter. Inside the tank, (before
anything is put in), place a UGF plate in the far-end, and connect a
horizontal run of pipe from the UGF plate to the wall-end. This plate
becomes a very wide filter strainer, not a UGF filter. It's location
makes it a continuously running gravel vacuum. It will be covered by
river stones (3/8" to 1" diameter). This type of an input will not clog
and is virtually maintenance-free (and you don't need to gravel vac
either). It is also unlikely that there will be much in the way of
aquascaping at the far-end, so a cleared area of river stones will fit
almost any bio-tope being planned. Stack a few low stones and/or low
driftwood in this area.

At the wall-end, install a 90 degree elbow and run a pipe up the middle
of the wall-end glass to a U fitting to run canister hose down inside the
wall to your filter compartment below. You can run this right through
the wall, but I recommend running them inside some DWV pipes (3" black
ABS). This makes it easy to route hoses, wires etc up and down through
the wood framing around your wall-end.

At the filter underneath, install a T connection and a flying lead hose
(a bib ?), with shutoff valves. Weekly water changes will consist of
open/closing a few valves, and draining your water out through your
canister (backwashing your canister, and reversing the water flow through
your spray bar) into your drain (no python, no hoses, no mess). When you
have drained enough water, reverse the open/close valves and your supply
line water now feeds into your tank (backwashing through the UGF plate).
This weekly backwashing of your filter and reversing flow direction
through your hoses will significantly increase the servicing interval
needed. With the right balance, your canister servicing interval may
only become an annual event.

Note that your water supply line temperature influences this set-up. If
only using very cold water, your flow has to be very low, or you should
flow through the spray bar. You want to avoid ice-cold water appearing
on your tank's exposed warm glass bottom via the UGF plate. There are
mixing valves available at the plumbing supply. Install a mixing valve
where your hot/cold water pipes are, and your single water supply will
always be pre-set to your tank temperature.

The T connection and shut-off valves are all readily available at your
hardware store, either in the usual home plumbing stuff (high PSI) or in
the automatic water gardening stuff (low PSI). For the filtration
system, both work. For the supply line connection, you need a proper
shut-off valve. For the price difference, )it's all pretty cheap), I use
hose stuff for everything except the little elbows and adapters for the
hoses going to the tank.

Oh yeah, your filter return is at the wall-end, so you have nice
leisurely top-rear to front-bottom circulation, adaptable to almost any
bio-tope (you don't need high flow rates for their detritus pick-up power
as your sucking debris right off the bottom. Your slope from the far-end
to wall-end would rise (nothing dramatic, just enough for detritus to
roll downwards).

Let me know when you get around to thinking about the electrics, ie:
delay-start timers (to auto stop/start the filter while feeding) and
multiple lighting stages (nightlight, daylights and transitional
lighting). I'd even consider a circuit of cheap incandescent lights in
the canopy. Put a light switch grouping on the wall. This allows you to
over-ride your daylight/transitional fluorescent light program and
control the incandescents on a garden-variety light dimmer. Another
school of thought has multiple wiring circuits run to the tank, so all
your controls are done elsewhere (electrical room). Typically you would
run cct1: utility (not switched, cabinet lighting, air pumps, variable
incandescents etc), cct2:heater(s) & filters(s) (both switchable, usually
concurrently for only short periods of time), cct3: main lights, cct4 +:
extra light programs. If you are in an area of frequent power outages,
seperate filter & heaters, so filters can be easily maintained on UPS
(large tanks have less need of UPS heating).

All of this stuff is relatively cheap to plan in and install (especially
if you are doing the work yourself), but much more expensive and
laborious to add in later as an after-thought. Have fun!

ps: Do give a passing thought to heat & humidity evacuation. Depending
on your climate, and your home's air-tightness, this can become a
nuisance. In northern climates, you don't want your hot humidity getting
into your ceiling insulation where it will freeze and thaw back in. In
southern climates you might want to add some type of active or passive
ventilation method. A solid glass cover can address humidity issues and
a tall air chamber with some passive ventilation can address heat
retention. Planning is everything.

NetMax

--
Kudzu *\\
The man that always tells the truth never has to remember what he said