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#1
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The message
from Stephen Henning contains these words: To be more precise: Here's an example of your "precision": Brodick Castle & Gardens runs down to about 100 meters from the firth of Clyde, quite close. Brodick Castle & Gardens is situated on a sheltered plateau above the firth of Clyde, but the gardens extend down near the highway along the shore. You don't seem to know which, do you? Here's a picture; the garden is below the castle and adjoins the sea http://www.arransites.co.uk/images/bro_castle2.jpg The "highway", is a narrow road, immediately adjoining the sea. It's just wide enough for two vehicles to pass each other.The oldest and most famous rhododendron area called the Planthunter's Walk, is at the bottom of the garden alongside the road from which it's separated by a metal rail. last year we spent weeks cutting year back rhododendrons overhanging that rail and obstructing the narrow road. On the other side of the narrow road, literally, is the sea. Salt water, tidal, with seals, the occasional whale, shark, submarine etc. And Arduaine Gardens is not very near any place, but it is 16 mi. west of Inveraray (43 mi. by road) & 20 mi. south of Oban, so Inveraray is closest to Inveraray (not Inverary) if you look at a map. Very precise; but unfortunately, meaningless. West Scotland's salt-laden coast is famous for its rhododendron gardens . How can areas with 60 to 90 inches of annual rainfall be salt laden?!?!?! The rain, and wind, come from 300 miles of Atlantic ocean and are heavily salt-laden. Brodick Castle & Gardens is protected from the westerly winds by the 3,866 foot tall Goatfell. Wrong. Goatfell is 2866 ft tall and lies directly north of the castle and gardens; so does not protect them from the prevailing wind, which is from the south-west. Because Brodick Castle is so exposed to the wind, it's the site of weather station for the Meteorological Office. Janet |
#2
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In article , Janet Baraclough
wrote: The rain, and wind, come from 300 miles of Atlantic ocean and are heavily salt-laden. Next you'll be asserting water can be lit on fire! Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. Scotland is almost as good as the Pacific Northwest for rhodies because they require acidic soils & areas of heavy rainfall wash salts OUT of the soil which results in acidity. In LOW-preciptation regions soils become saline. And rhododendrons will no longer grow. And also as in the Pacific Northwest rhodies can be grown just about anywhere in Scotland EXCEPT along salty shores or saltmarshes. Your insistance to the contrary only works if the fairies are busily trumping science with their lovely magic spells. So you really might as well be repeatedly posting personal testimonies on how you can too set fire to H20. In Scotland saline garden soils are caused by immediate proximity to shores or lochs, from irrigation gotten from brackish groundwater of the lochs, & from chemicalized agricultural methods. If you can cite something factual & scientific as evidence that the Atlantic ocean leaps up & jumps 300 miles inland, cite that wondrous evidence that rainfall occurs differently in Scotland than in any other place on Earth. But please, no more of these fairytales about your allegedly busy life spent in all the gardens of scotland where every raincloud brings an imaginary salty deluge that delights those fairy-rhododendrons magically grown as barriers against the sea. I'm beginning to suspect you never leave the house at all. The depth of your current devotion to a bunch of nonsense really should be beneath you. -paghat the ratgirl -- Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson |
#3
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The message
from (paghat) contains these words: In article , Janet Baraclough wrote: The rain, and wind, come from 300 miles of Atlantic ocean and are heavily salt-laden. Next you'll be asserting water can be lit on fire! Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. Wrong. http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/env...#salt%20source I haven't said Scottish soil is saline. It clearly isn't because it's fertile. However, plants (and everything else) are constantly salted-upon, because of weather conditions here. Because of the high rainfall, salt doesn't accumulate to a harmful degree as it does in dry climates like Australia's; but seasalt rain does contribute to our acid-rain problems. Scotland is almost as good as the Pacific Northwest for rhodies because they require acidic soils & areas of heavy rainfall wash salts OUT of the soil which results in acidity. In LOW-preciptation regions soils become saline. And rhododendrons will no longer grow. I haven't claimed the soil is saline. The original post to which I replied, said that ericaceous plants do not grow beside the sea. They do, here. And also as in the Pacific Northwest rhodies can be grown just about anywhere in Scotland EXCEPT along salty shores or saltmarshes. Wrong. There are many parts of Scotland where they can't grow. They do grow along the west coast shore. Perhaps your personal understanding of "shore" is limited; not all shores and seabords are sand beach or saltmarsh. In Scotland saline garden soils are caused by immediate proximity to shores or lochs, from irrigation gotten from brackish groundwater of the lochs, & from chemicalized agricultural methods. What saline soils? You clearly know nothing of gardening, irrigation or agriculture in Scotland. If you can cite something factual & scientific as evidence that the Atlantic ocean leaps up & jumps 300 miles inland, No part of Scotland is more than 40 miles from the sea. (There is no "300 miles inland", anywhere in Britain.). Salt blows in, on wind and rain, during storms. But please, no more of these fairytales about your allegedly busy life spent in all the gardens of scotland That fairy tale is your own. Look up the websites in my post to Stephen, he has misled you. Janet. |
#4
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Janet Baraclough wrote:
The rain, and wind, come from 300 miles of Atlantic ocean and are heavily salt-laden. Next you'll be asserting water can be lit on fire! Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. Wrong. http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/env...#salt%20source If what you got out of that page is that salt can be evaporated into the clouds, and that rain in coastal areas contains salt, then we can clearly see how little you understand about even the most simple science. The bottom line is rhodies will not grow in a saline environment, no matter how much you want to argue with the experts. And the gardens you are using as proof that the experts are wrong all work hard to protect their rhodies from the saline that could otherwise easily create problems. You can stop trying to be right. You can stop trying to prove that accepted science is wrong. Every time you post, you demonstrate how little you know, and how difficult of a time you have dealing with being wrong. Save us all the pain of watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper into your pit of humiliation. Stop now, because you obviously don't have the temperament to deal with any further embarrassment. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Have an outdoor project? Get a Black & Decker power tool:: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/ |
#5
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Warren, you're not as informed as you think you are.
http://landresources.montana.edu/LRE...stry_Web.pd f According to the site above, from University of Montana, the composition of rainfall is nearly identical to seawater with some additional molecules picked up in the atmosphere. Furthermore, rainfall is NEVER simple H20 - because it also picks up many gases that are present in the atmosphere and transports them. However, more pertinent to the ongoing argument is the fact that strong winds (as in hurricane or near-hurricane force winds) which Scotland is subject to every year,send salt spray MILES inland - not a few feet, or even a few hundred feet. This can be verified in any google search. I think that the issue has been clouded by all this talk about what hits the leaves of the plants. It is clear that the initial post had to do with what happened at the ROOTS of the plants in question. It is VERY evident that rhododendrons cannot have their roots soaked in salt water that sits on them. Constant movement of water through the root zone will wash the salts through them or out of them - but it has to be water that is relatively low in salts, and the plants have to have excellent drainage. A plant sitting in a low spot with salt water swirling around its base is a goner - no question. A plant on a hillside hit with a strong blast of very salty water but subsequently flushed with plenty of water that moves through and out of the root zone will probably be fine. Janet is not claiming that Scottish rhododendrons are living in salt marshes. What she IS claiming is that they live in rather close proximity to the sea in rather salty environments in Scotland - albeit in regions of very high rainfall. "Warren" wrote in message ... Janet Baraclough wrote: The rain, and wind, come from 300 miles of Atlantic ocean and are heavily salt-laden. Next you'll be asserting water can be lit on fire! Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. Wrong. http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/env...#salt%20source If what you got out of that page is that salt can be evaporated into the clouds, and that rain in coastal areas contains salt, then we can clearly see how little you understand about even the most simple science. The bottom line is rhodies will not grow in a saline environment, no matter how much you want to argue with the experts. And the gardens you are using as proof that the experts are wrong all work hard to protect their rhodies from the saline that could otherwise easily create problems. You can stop trying to be right. You can stop trying to prove that accepted science is wrong. Every time you post, you demonstrate how little you know, and how difficult of a time you have dealing with being wrong. Save us all the pain of watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper into your pit of humiliation. Stop now, because you obviously don't have the temperament to deal with any further embarrassment. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Have an outdoor project? Get a Black & Decker power tool:: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/ |
#6
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A further elaboration of the theme of the chemical composition of rainfall:
"What is a chemical salt recipe for 'typical' rainwater? Rainwater gets its compositions largely by dissolving particulate materials in the atmosphere (upper troposhere) when droplets of water nucleate on atmospheric particulates, and secondarily by dissolving gasses from the atmosphere. Rainwater compositions vary geographically. In open ocean and coastal areas they have a salt content essentially like that of sea water (same ionic proportions but much more dilute) plus CO2 as bicarbonate anion (acidic pH). Terrestrial rain compositions vary siginificantly from place to place because the regional geology can greatly affect the types of particulates that get added to the atmosphere. Likewise, sources of gaesous acids (SO3, NO2) and bases (NH3) vary as a function of biome factors and anthopogenic land use practices. Each of these gasses can be added in varying proportions from natural and non natural input sources (non-natural sources of SO3 and NO2 far outweigh natural ones). Particulate load to the atmosphere can also be greatly affected by human activities. Finally, local climate (especially the amount of precipitation in one area compared to another) will affect the solute concentrations in terrestrial rainwaters. The result is highly variable compositions, so there isn't one simple formula. If you want to read up a bit on this and see data for rainwater from many different locales globally, I suggest the book "Global Environment: water air and geochemical cycles" by Berner and Berner (Prentice-Hall, 1996) or a similar text " "presley" wrote in message ... Warren, you're not as informed as you think you are. http://landresources.montana.edu/LRE...stry_Web.pd f According to the site above, from University of Montana, the composition of rainfall is nearly identical to seawater with some additional molecules picked up in the atmosphere. Furthermore, rainfall is NEVER simple H20 - because it also picks up many gases that are present in the atmosphere and transports them. However, more pertinent to the ongoing argument is the fact that strong winds (as in hurricane or near-hurricane force winds) which Scotland is subject to every year,send salt spray MILES inland - not a few feet, or even a few hundred feet. This can be verified in any google search. I think that the issue has been clouded by all this talk about what hits the leaves of the plants. It is clear that the initial post had to do with what happened at the ROOTS of the plants in question. It is VERY evident that rhododendrons cannot have their roots soaked in salt water that sits on them. Constant movement of water through the root zone will wash the salts through them or out of them - but it has to be water that is relatively low in salts, and the plants have to have excellent drainage. A plant sitting in a low spot with salt water swirling around its base is a goner - no question. A plant on a hillside hit with a strong blast of very salty water but subsequently flushed with plenty of water that moves through and out of the root zone will probably be fine. Janet is not claiming that Scottish rhododendrons are living in salt marshes. What she IS claiming is that they live in rather close proximity to the sea in rather salty environments in Scotland - albeit in regions of very high rainfall. "Warren" wrote in message ... Janet Baraclough wrote: The rain, and wind, come from 300 miles of Atlantic ocean and are heavily salt-laden. Next you'll be asserting water can be lit on fire! Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. Wrong. http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/env...#salt%20source If what you got out of that page is that salt can be evaporated into the clouds, and that rain in coastal areas contains salt, then we can clearly see how little you understand about even the most simple science. The bottom line is rhodies will not grow in a saline environment, no matter how much you want to argue with the experts. And the gardens you are using as proof that the experts are wrong all work hard to protect their rhodies from the saline that could otherwise easily create problems. You can stop trying to be right. You can stop trying to prove that accepted science is wrong. Every time you post, you demonstrate how little you know, and how difficult of a time you have dealing with being wrong. Save us all the pain of watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper into your pit of humiliation. Stop now, because you obviously don't have the temperament to deal with any further embarrassment. -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Have an outdoor project? Get a Black & Decker power tool:: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/ |
#7
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presley wrote:
A further elaboration of the theme of the chemical composition of rainfall: "What is a chemical salt recipe for 'typical' rainwater? Rainwater gets its compositions largely by dissolving particulate materials in the atmosphere (upper troposhere) when droplets of water nucleate on atmospheric particulates, and secondarily by dissolving gasses from the atmosphere. Rainwater compositions vary geographically. In open ocean and coastal areas they have a salt content essentially like that of sea water (same ionic proportions but much more dilute) plus CO2 as bicarbonate anion (acidic pH). Terrestrial rain compositions vary siginificantly from place to place because the regional geology can greatly affect the types of particulates that get added to the atmosphere. Likewise, sources of gaesous acids (SO3, NO2) and bases (NH3) vary as a function of biome factors and anthopogenic land use practices. Each of these gasses can be added in varying proportions from natural and non natural input sources (non-natural sources of SO3 and NO2 far outweigh natural ones). Particulate load to the atmosphere can also be greatly affected by human activities. Finally, local climate (especially the amount of precipitation in one area compared to another) will affect the solute concentrations in terrestrial rainwaters. The result is highly variable compositions, so there isn't one simple formula. If you want to read up a bit on this and see data for rainwater from many different locales globally, I suggest the book "Global Environment: water air and geochemical cycles" by Berner and Berner (Prentice-Hall, 1996) or a similar text " Here in the PNW our rain comes in off the Pacific Ocean and it is not the least bit salty. -- Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 5 |
#8
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"presley" wrote:
Warren, you're not as informed as you think you are. http://landresources.montana.edu/LRE...pic%20B2_Part1 _Solution_Chemistry_Web.pdf According to the site above, from University of Montana, the composition of rainfall is nearly identical to seawater with some additional molecules picked up in the atmosphere. Let's see now: 1) People drink rain water, especially on ocean islands where there is no other fresh water, are very healthy. 2) People who drink sea water die. and you claim that they are the same. I hope you don't try to drink sea water. -- Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman |
#9
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In article , Stephen
Henning wrote: "presley" wrote: Warren, you're not as informed as you think you are. http://landresources.montana.edu/LRE...pic%20B2_Part1 _Solution_Chemistry_Web.pdf According to the site above, from University of Montana, the composition of rainfall is nearly identical to seawater with some additional molecules picked up in the atmosphere. Let's see now: 1) People drink rain water, especially on ocean islands where there is no other fresh water, are very healthy. 2) People who drink sea water die. and you claim that they are the same. I hope you don't try to drink sea water. The methods by which it can be assessed that rainwater is evaporative from the sea measured for it's isotopic signature & ionic proportionality does not mean rainfall that is the "same" as the sea for salt content. When by mass ratio it can be proven that sodium & chloride ions in groundwater are "the same as seawater" this means whatever the salt load (whether barely detectible or extremely great) originated in the ocean vs originating in mineral dissolution or man-caused pollutants. It does NOT mean the groundwater or the rainfall is sal****er. It just doesn't mean that. As sensible to believe being that signatures & proportionality "the same as seawater" means rainfall is teaming with plankton & jellyfish. Salinity in soil DECREASES in areas of highest rainfall. If rain were salty the opposite would be true, & much of the world would drop dead because rainwater would be unfit to drink. Rainfall even lowers the salinity in tidal areas of the ocean itself. In the Ariake Sea for a studied example, salinity for most of the year is a fairly constant 25-26%. During the rainy monsoon season salinity drops to 15% [H. Koike, University of Tokkyo Bulletin 18, 1980]. So too mangrove swamps become decreasingly salinized when deluted during rainy seasons. If the "sameness" of rainwater & seawater was defined by their salt content, tidal environments would not have lowered salinity during heavy rainfall, & the land surface would become so salinized, within a year or two the earth would no longer be habitable my man. What sodium does find its way into rainfall is generally assumed to be of ocean origin. It is such an inconsequential component that rainfall is NEVER given as one of the causes of inland salinization. It's beyond comprehension that even one person really believes rainfall has the same salt content as the sea. Such belief is explicable only if scientific knowledge, ability to reason, or even the ability to draw personal conclusions after opening one's mouth in a rainstorm, are fast slipping away from an increasingly imbecilic population. And so the thread gets increasingly stupid from assertions that rhododendrons are planted as salt air windbreaks, that the Atlantic ocean dumps sal****er 300 miles inland from rainclouds & storms, & that sodium mass ratio statistics for FRESHWATER somehow prove that freshwater is in reality sal****er. Dumb, dumb, dumb. -paghat the ratgirl -- Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson |
#10
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presley wrote:
Warren, you're not as informed as you think you are. http://landresources.montana.edu/LRE...stry_Web.pd f According to the site above, from University of Montana, the composition of rainfall is nearly identical to seawater with some additional molecules picked up in the atmosphere. Furthermore, rainfall is NEVER simple H20 - because it also picks up many gases that are present in the atmosphere and transports them. However, more pertinent to the ongoing argument is the fact that strong winds (as in hurricane or near-hurricane force winds) which Scotland is subject to every year,send salt spray MILES inland - not a few feet, or even a few hundred feet. This can be verified in any google search. I think that the issue has been clouded by all this talk about what hits the leaves of the plants. It is clear that the initial post had to do with what happened at the ROOTS of the plants in question. It is VERY evident that rhododendrons cannot have their roots soaked in salt water that sits on them. Constant movement of water through the root zone will wash the salts through them or out of them - but it has to be water that is relatively low in salts, and the plants have to have excellent drainage. A plant sitting in a low spot with salt water swirling around its base is a goner - no question. A plant on a hillside hit with a strong blast of very salty water but subsequently flushed with plenty of water that moves through and out of the root zone will probably be fine. Janet is not claiming that Scottish rhododendrons are living in salt marshes. What she IS claiming is that they live in rather close proximity to the sea in rather salty environments in Scotland - albeit in regions of very high rainfall. A plant sitting in a low spot with distilled water swirling around its base is a gonner. -- Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 5 |
#11
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The message
from "Warren" contains these words: Janet Baraclough wrote: The rain, and wind, come from 300 miles of Atlantic ocean and are heavily salt-laden. Next you'll be asserting water can be lit on fire! Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. Wrong. http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/env...#salt%20source If what you got out of that page is that salt can be evaporated into the clouds, and that rain in coastal areas contains salt, then we can clearly see how little you understand about even the most simple science. You're incompetent. That page makes it perfectly clear; quote *"Where does the salt come from? *Soil salt can come from three main sources: * 1. From the breakdown of parent rock: A very slow process. * 2. From geological inundation by the oceans: Only on discrete parts of Australia. * 3. From wind blown salt, usually in rain water from the ocean. *Salt in rainfall can range from about 20 kg/ha/per annum (usually inland with low rainfall) to more *than 200 kg/ha/per annum (usually coastal with high rainfall). In most of Australia, this is the source *of stored salts. " end quote. Presley has given another cite telling you the same thing. You can stop trying to be right. You can stop trying to prove that accepted science is wrong. Every time you post, you demonstrate how little you know, and how difficult of a time you have dealing with being wrong. Save us all the pain of watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper into your pit of humiliation. Stop now, because you obviously don't have the temperament to deal with any further embarrassment. I suggest you apply that to yourself, Stephen and Paghat. You jumped on the wrong bandwagon, Warren; your heroes are not the experts they pretend and now you've been hoist on their own petard of lies and deliberate misrepresentations. Janet. |
#12
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Janet Baraclough wrote:
I suggest you apply that to yourself, Stephen and Paghat. You jumped on the wrong bandwagon, Warren; your heroes are not the experts they pretend and now you've been hoist on their own petard of lies and deliberate misrepresentations. Okay. You win. Azaleas will thrive in salty conditions. I'm ready to go out and pour salt water on all my azaleas based on your convincing arguments. But just in case you're wrong, I'll wait until you put your money where your mouth is, and agree to pay for replacements if you turn out to be wrong. Thank goodness you pointed out how everyone else lies so much, otherwise I'd never realize that you're the only generous who really knows how to grow azaleas! -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Have an outdoor project? Get a Black & Decker power tool:: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/ |
#13
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The message
from "Warren" contains these words: Thank goodness you pointed out how everyone else lies so much, otherwise I'd never realize that you're the only generous who really knows how to grow azaleas! There's another of your lies, Warren. I haven't said *everyone* else lies. You do, clearly. I don't, and neither did Soo, Charles, and Presley in this thread. Janet |
#14
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In article , "Warren"
wrote: Janet Baraclough wrote: I suggest you apply that to yourself, Stephen and Paghat. You jumped on the wrong bandwagon, Warren; your heroes are not the experts they pretend and now you've been hoist on their own petard of lies and deliberate misrepresentations. Wow, talk about projecting! -paggers Okay. You win. Azaleas will thrive in salty conditions. I'm ready to go out and pour salt water on all my azaleas based on your convincing arguments. But just in case you're wrong, I'll wait until you put your money where your mouth is, and agree to pay for replacements if you turn out to be wrong. Thank goodness you pointed out how everyone else lies so much, otherwise I'd never realize that you're the only generous who really knows how to grow azaleas! -- Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson |
#15
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Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message from "Warren" contains these words: Janet Baraclough wrote: The rain, and wind, come from 300 miles of Atlantic ocean and are heavily salt-laden. Next you'll be asserting water can be lit on fire! Salt is NOT evaporated into clouds & precipitation NEVER salinizes soils. Wrong. http://agspsrv34.agric.wa.gov.au/env...#salt%20source If what you got out of that page is that salt can be evaporated into the clouds, and that rain in coastal areas contains salt, then we can clearly see how little you understand about even the most simple science. You're incompetent. That page makes it perfectly clear; quote *"Where does the salt come from? *Soil salt can come from three main sources: * 1. From the breakdown of parent rock: A very slow process. * 2. From geological inundation by the oceans: Only on discrete parts of Australia. * 3. From wind blown salt, usually in rain water from the ocean. *Salt in rainfall can range from about 20 kg/ha/per annum (usually inland with low rainfall) to more *than 200 kg/ha/per annum (usually coastal with high rainfall). In most of Australia, this is the source *of stored salts. " end quote. Presley has given another cite telling you the same thing. You can stop trying to be right. You can stop trying to prove that accepted science is wrong. Every time you post, you demonstrate how little you know, and how difficult of a time you have dealing with being wrong. Save us all the pain of watching you dig yourself deeper and deeper into your pit of humiliation. Stop now, because you obviously don't have the temperament to deal with any further embarrassment. I suggest you apply that to yourself, Stephen and Paghat. You jumped on the wrong bandwagon, Warren; your heroes are not the experts they pretend and now you've been hoist on their own petard of lies and deliberate misrepresentations. Janet. There are many places in North America with salt deposits left from the Oceanic inundation not just Australia. -- Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 5 |
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