Hi, folks!

Gardening in San Jose, California -- USDA zone 9, Sunset zone 16.

I have a prominent space at the edge of a (grumble) lawn, located next
to an apple tree, but just out from under the tree's drip line (when
it's in leaf). The spot is about a square meter. It's at the bottom
of a short, shallow slope which terminates at the lawn. The soil is
mostly clay, but has been amended with some organic matter. The site
receives partial shade to full sun.

Grass used to grow in this location, but I have been making efforts to
reduce the size of our lawn, particularly on the sloped parts of the
yard. Over the past two years I have tried two different plants in
this location, without lasting success. Initially, the plants thrive
and grow. About a year later, they croak. My first attempt was with
jagged lavender (Lavandula pinnata); my second, with ornamental quince
(Chaenomeles japonica).

I don't think that I'm committing any blunders with water. Turgor
pressure was good in the leaves of the lavender, right until the point
when it decided to die. I'm actually not sure that the quince is dead
yet -- but it lost about 95% of its leaves in late summer, which was
far too early, even as turgor in the remaining leaves was still good.
It isn't setting buds right now, which it should be doing.

All around the drip line of this apple tree, and even under it to some
extent, plants are thriving. It's just this one spot that refuses to
grow anything. I'm not the kind of gardener who normally likes to
force a piece of ground to do something that it doesn't wish to do.
But I have trouble believing that nothing will grow on this spot
besides the grass that I removed. Help me, before I kill again!
Suggestions are appreciated!

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Put some sort of sculpture there instead.

A garden gnome perhaps?


"John Ladasky" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi, folks!

Gardening in San Jose, California -- USDA zone 9, Sunset zone 16.

I have a prominent space at the edge of a (grumble) lawn, located next
to an apple tree, but just out from under the tree's drip line (when
it's in leaf). The spot is about a square meter. It's at the bottom
of a short, shallow slope which terminates at the lawn. The soil is
mostly clay, but has been amended with some organic matter. The site
receives partial shade to full sun.

Grass used to grow in this location, but I have been making efforts to
reduce the size of our lawn, particularly on the sloped parts of the
yard. Over the past two years I have tried two different plants in
this location, without lasting success. Initially, the plants thrive
and grow. About a year later, they croak. My first attempt was with
jagged lavender (Lavandula pinnata); my second, with ornamental quince
(Chaenomeles japonica).

I don't think that I'm committing any blunders with water. Turgor
pressure was good in the leaves of the lavender, right until the point
when it decided to die. I'm actually not sure that the quince is dead
yet -- but it lost about 95% of its leaves in late summer, which was
far too early, even as turgor in the remaining leaves was still good.
It isn't setting buds right now, which it should be doing.

All around the drip line of this apple tree, and even under it to some
extent, plants are thriving. It's just this one spot that refuses to
grow anything. I'm not the kind of gardener who normally likes to
force a piece of ground to do something that it doesn't wish to do.
But I have trouble believing that nothing will grow on this spot
besides the grass that I removed. Help me, before I kill again!
Suggestions are appreciated!

+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Ladasky Home Solar, Inc.: blowing sunshine up your |
| power grid since March 24, 2005. Fiat lux! |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Uptime Downtime kWh generated kWh consumed |
| 311 days none 5740 5852 |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+

Cereus-validus-........... wrote:
Put some sort of sculpture there instead.

A garden gnome perhaps?

That would have to be one big, fat gnome!

I am considering a bird bath, though. I'd like to try something
inexpensive and green first.

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| Ladasky Home Solar, Inc.: blowing sunshine up your |
| power grid since March 24, 2005. Fiat lux! |
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| Uptime Downtime kWh generated kWh consumed |
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Inexpensive and green?

How about an inflatable kiddy pool?


"John Ladasky" wrote in message
oups.com...

Cereus-validus-........... wrote:
Put some sort of sculpture there instead.

A garden gnome perhaps?

That would have to be one big, fat gnome!

I am considering a bird bath, though. I'd like to try something
inexpensive and green first.

+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Ladasky Home Solar, Inc.: blowing sunshine up your |
| power grid since March 24, 2005. Fiat lux! |
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| Uptime Downtime kWh generated kWh consumed |
| 311 days none 5740 5852 |
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Mr. Bill wrote:

[snip]

Just an opinion but it sounds as though the underlying soil is, for lack of
a better term "poisoned". I don't mean there is a poison in the soil, just
that there is something in it that was bad enough to keep your plants from
growing. Could be a fungus or salts or nematodes or something of that
nature.

I've thought about this possibility. If it is true, I'm surprised
that the effect is so local. I'm also surprised that it didn't affect
the grass that was growing there two years ago.

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On 30 Jan 2006 13:33:05 -0800, "John Ladasky"
wrote:

Hi, folks!

snip

Grass used to grow in this location, but I have been making efforts to
reduce the size of our lawn, particularly on the sloped parts of the
yard. Over the past two years I have tried two different plants in
this location, without lasting success.

Hi

You say grass USED to grow here, and that you're making efforts to
reduce the size of the lawn. Does this mean you removed the grass
from this site? If so, how did you kill the grass?

Robin
Alexandria, VA

On 30 Jan 2006 13:33:05 -0800, "John Ladasky"
wrote:

Help me, before I kill again!
Suggestions are appreciated!

Actually, since these plants were at the bottom of a slope where
run-off might collect, and both of them prefer less water rather than
more water, are you sure they haven't been getting TOO much water,
rather than too little?

Robin
Alexandria, VA

RobinM wrote:

You say grass USED to grow here, and that you're making efforts to
reduce the size of the lawn. Does this mean you removed the grass
from this site? If so, how did you kill the grass?

Yes, I removed the grass. I did it the old-fashioned way, with a
pickaxe and shovel. I avoid chemical methods whenever I can. A large
swath of the adjacent hillside was treated the same way, at the same
time. Plenty of new plants are growing there.

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RobinM wrote:

Actually, since these plants were at the bottom of a slope where
run-off might collect, and both of them prefer less water rather than
more water, are you sure they haven't been getting TOO much water,
rather than too little?

I thought about that -- but I am a California gardener, and I actually
like to be stingy with water. I watered this spot by hand when needed,
deeply and infrequently. If anything, I would have expected the plants
to wilt as they succumbed to the summer drought conditions. This isn't
how they died, as I described in my original post.

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| power grid since March 24, 2005. Fiat lux! |
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A pond with water lilies.

Would it be a good spot for a picnic table?

Dwayne

"John Ladasky" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi, folks!

Gardening in San Jose, California -- USDA zone 9, Sunset zone 16.

I have a prominent space at the edge of a (grumble) lawn, located next
to an apple tree, but just out from under the tree's drip line (when
it's in leaf). The spot is about a square meter. It's at the bottom
of a short, shallow slope which terminates at the lawn. The soil is
mostly clay, but has been amended with some organic matter. The site
receives partial shade to full sun.

Grass used to grow in this location, but I have been making efforts to
reduce the size of our lawn, particularly on the sloped parts of the
yard. Over the past two years I have tried two different plants in
this location, without lasting success. Initially, the plants thrive
and grow. About a year later, they croak. My first attempt was with
jagged lavender (Lavandula pinnata); my second, with ornamental quince
(Chaenomeles japonica).

I don't think that I'm committing any blunders with water. Turgor
pressure was good in the leaves of the lavender, right until the point
when it decided to die. I'm actually not sure that the quince is dead
yet -- but it lost about 95% of its leaves in late summer, which was
far too early, even as turgor in the remaining leaves was still good.
It isn't setting buds right now, which it should be doing.

All around the drip line of this apple tree, and even under it to some
extent, plants are thriving. It's just this one spot that refuses to
grow anything. I'm not the kind of gardener who normally likes to
force a piece of ground to do something that it doesn't wish to do.
But I have trouble believing that nothing will grow on this spot
besides the grass that I removed. Help me, before I kill again!
Suggestions are appreciated!

+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Ladasky Home Solar, Inc.: blowing sunshine up your |
| power grid since March 24, 2005. Fiat lux! |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Uptime Downtime kWh generated kWh consumed |
| 311 days none 5740 5852 |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+

Dwayne wrote:
Would it be a good spot for a picnic table?

The spot is too small for that. What's more, the back deck is only a
few steps away. There's already a table on the deck. But the spot is
also too large for a garden gnome, as suggested by "Cereus-validus".
If I put something there besides a plant, a bird bath would be the
right size. Of course, I would need to make sure that I don't breed
mosquitoes in it...

+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Ladasky Home Solar, Inc.: blowing sunshine up your |
| power grid since March 24, 2005. Fiat lux! |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Uptime Downtime kWh generated kWh consumed |
| 311 days none 5740 5852 |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+

John Ladasky wrote
:

The spot is too small for that. What's more, the back deck is only a
few steps away. There's already a table on the deck. But the spot is
also too large for a garden gnome, as suggested by "Cereus-validus".
If I put something there besides a plant, a bird bath would be the
right size. Of course, I would need to make sure that I don't breed
mosquitoes in it...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
Hello John
I tend to agree with Robin that there is a problem with too much water.
Not too much in summer, when you have control over the amount, and are
sparing with it.
But too much in winter, when you have no control over what Ma Nature
provides, and that has been quite a lot recently. The combination of
clay soil,
lots of water, and cold winter is not a good situation at any time for
lavender,
which requires not just good drainage, but excellent drainage.
I am north of you and have excellent well drained soil, but still need
to plant
lavender on a raised area to get it thru the winter. You mentioned that
the
plantst do ok until the next year, after they have gone thru a wet,
cold winter.
These same conditions are probably not good for the quince, either.

You might try adding more soil of a lighter texture and provide a
raised bed,
berm, or mound for better drainage.
Or you might try something that doesn't seem to mind cold, wet
conditions in
winter, like New England aster and goldenrod, or maybe callas. They do
well
in those conditions up here.
And the birdbath idea is not bad either. Near the deck where you could
watch,
and the apple tree for cover. I have never had any problem with
mosquitoes in a
birdbath. In the summer it dries up too fast, and the scrub jays empty
it every
time they take a bath!!! You will have more of a problem with algae I
think.
You could plant some low annuals around the area. They would not be
there in
winter, and could be replaced with cool weather annuals.

If you do decide to go with a soil test, you will not get it done at
the extension
service in Calif., but will need to find a private soil lab.

Good luck and let us know the outcome
Emilie
NorCal

"John Ladasky" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm also surprised that it didn't affect
the grass that was growing there two years ago.

Perhaps the grass does not go deep enough
Tomes

I had a friend who pulled up about a square meter of his lawn so he could
plant 4 tomato plants. They kept dying, despite his best efforts, even
though the grass around that area was fine.

He also had 3 cats, and I asked him where they did their business... he
groaned, and gave up trying to get those tomatoes to grow anymore, it was a
losing battle.

Any cats in your yard?

8-)


"John Ladasky" sagely wrote in
oups.com:


Mr. Bill wrote:

[snip]

Just an opinion but it sounds as though the underlying soil is, for
lack of a better term "poisoned". I don't mean there is a poison in
the soil, just that there is something in it that was bad enough to
keep your plants from growing. Could be a fungus or salts or
nematodes or something of that nature.

I've thought about this possibility. If it is true, I'm surprised
that the effect is so local. I'm also surprised that it didn't affect
the grass that was growing there two years ago.

+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Ladasky Home Solar, Inc.: blowing sunshine up your |
| power grid since March 24, 2005. Fiat lux! |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Uptime Downtime kWh generated kWh consumed |
| 311 days none 5740 5852 |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+