Leon Fisk wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 01:06:29 GMT, fran
wrote:


Well, I was vindicated today. For years I have maintained that there
is a 5-leaf version of poison ivy and no-one believed me.

Today I pulled up a poison ivy vine by the roots, and found both the
standard 3-leaflet sets *and* the 5-leaflet sets on it! And yes, they
were from one plant - there was only one small root.

Silly me, though, I didn't think to take a photo of it until just now
- when it's already met it's fate. Oh well, I'll just have to wait -
I'm sure I'll find the (#&%&^% stuff again.

Just in case you're curious, the 5-leaflet set looks like the
3-leaflet set, except there are 2 more small leaves on the outside
forming a neat circle of leaves. The notches are the same and
everything. This version looks verrry like another vine that is
called wandering jenny, as I recall. Makes me wonder if they are
related.


Call me skeptical, I'd want to see it myself to be sure

Virginia creeper has tendrils, Poison Ivy (PI) has aerial
rootlets. Think "hairy rope" when looking for a PI vine.
Look up tendrils and then aerial rootlets to see the
difference between them.

Box Elder (more properly called Ash leave Maple) has
opposite leaves. Usually only three leaflets on young trees
only 1-2 feet tall. Mature trees have 3-7 leaflets. PI
always has **alternate leaves**.

Here is some crappy ASCII art.

Opposite:

|
---|---
|
---|---
|
|

Alternate:

|
|---
|
---|
|
|---
|

There are only six other common species with three leaflets
and alternate leaves.

Poison Oak- questionable if it even differs from PI and
should be classified differently.

Fragrant Sumac - Could be confused with PI.

Cissus - much different.

Hoptree - not all that uncommon, but I've only seen it in
one particular area by me. Could be confused with PI.

Scotch Broom - much different.

Bicolor Lespedeza - much different.

Most of the common plants that look similar to PI have
opposite leaves and can be eliminated quickly with this
knowledge from a distance. The shape of the leaves, toothed,
smooth, irregular, is meaningless and not a good method for
identification of PI.


Leon,
You are going to seriously confuse those people who don't know the
difference between leaves and leaflets.
You always hear that poison ivy has 3 leaves, right? How often is is
described as having 3 leaflets? Not very often, by comparison.

Steve
PS I could tell a story about a woman who worked for the cooperative
extension in my county. She just couldn't understand the concept of
pruning tomato plants when grown on a stake. We finally realized that
the problem was she didn't understand that tomato leaves have leaflets.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:42:45 -0400, Steve
wrote:

Leon Fisk wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 01:06:29 GMT, fran
wrote:


Well, I was vindicated today. For years I have maintained that there
is a 5-leaf version of poison ivy and no-one believed me.

Today I pulled up a poison ivy vine by the roots, and found both the
standard 3-leaflet sets *and* the 5-leaflet sets on it! And yes, they
were from one plant - there was only one small root.

Silly me, though, I didn't think to take a photo of it until just now
- when it's already met it's fate. Oh well, I'll just have to wait -
I'm sure I'll find the (#&%&^% stuff again.

Just in case you're curious, the 5-leaflet set looks like the
3-leaflet set, except there are 2 more small leaves on the outside
forming a neat circle of leaves. The notches are the same and
everything. This version looks verrry like another vine that is
called wandering jenny, as I recall. Makes me wonder if they are
related.


Call me skeptical, I'd want to see it myself to be sure

Virginia creeper has tendrils, Poison Ivy (PI) has aerial
rootlets. Think "hairy rope" when looking for a PI vine.
Look up tendrils and then aerial rootlets to see the
difference between them.

Box Elder (more properly called Ash leave Maple) has
opposite leaves. Usually only three leaflets on young trees
only 1-2 feet tall. Mature trees have 3-7 leaflets. PI
always has **alternate leaves**.

Here is some crappy ASCII art.

Opposite:

|
---|---
|
---|---
|
|

Alternate:

|
|---
|
---|
|
|---
|

There are only six other common species with three leaflets
and alternate leaves.

Poison Oak- questionable if it even differs from PI and
should be classified differently.

Fragrant Sumac - Could be confused with PI.

Cissus - much different.

Hoptree - not all that uncommon, but I've only seen it in
one particular area by me. Could be confused with PI.

Scotch Broom - much different.

Bicolor Lespedeza - much different.

Most of the common plants that look similar to PI have
opposite leaves and can be eliminated quickly with this
knowledge from a distance. The shape of the leaves, toothed,
smooth, irregular, is meaningless and not a good method for
identification of PI.


Leon,
You are going to seriously confuse those people who don't know the
difference between leaves and leaflets.
You always hear that poison ivy has 3 leaves, right? How often is is
described as having 3 leaflets? Not very often, by comparison.

Steve
PS I could tell a story about a woman who worked for the cooperative
extension in my county. She just couldn't understand the concept of
pruning tomato plants when grown on a stake. We finally realized that
the problem was she didn't understand that tomato leaves have leaflets.

Hi Steve,

Well if they get a bit confused they'll just have to look up
a few things now won't they I little bit of knowledge
never hurt anyone, did it?

The link you posted earlier was good. The third picture has
an obvious tendril though, not PI. I noticed too that the
overall appearance to the stem just didn't look right to me
either for it to be PI. It is always much easier when you
have the real specimen too.

If a person can just remember alternate leaves and aerial
rootlets it will save you a whole lot of grief.

PI has been expanding around me. It is almost everywhere I
go now, or would like to go. Ugh!

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 01:06:29 GMT, fran
wrote:


snipped
Call me skeptical, I'd want to see it myself to be sure

A few years back I wanted to start removing the poison ivy from a wooded
portion of my yard, so I began to research it. I found a lot of great
info on the Net. One of the things I discovered was that although
poison ivy normally has 3 leaves (or leaflets) it can also have 5 or
more. The following FDA link states the same.
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/796_ivy.html

Last week I was pulling (yes, pulling...I'm careful and only mildly
allergic to urushiol) some poison ivy from another wooded area and found
a vine with both 3 and 5 leaflet clusters on the same vine. It was a
first for me.

Two interesting Internet factoids about poison ivy :

* As the urushiol penetrates your skin, your body sees it as an
invader (allergy) even though it is harmless. Your immune system
kicks in and begins a complex series of events which result in the
inflammation. So, technically the rash is the effect of your
immune system overreacting.
http://www.bio.umass.edu/immunology/poisoniv.htm
* It seems the British (during American colonization) became so
enamored with the plant that it was brought to England to plant
along hedge rows...where of course it spread...and then was
subsequently introduced into Australia and New Zealand where the
plants act as a garden backdrop...still can't figure out why
someone would do that

Agave wrote:
.....................................
....................One of the things I discovered was that although
poison ivy normally has 3 leaves (or leaflets) it can also have 5 or
more. The following FDA link states the same.
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/796_ivy.html
.................................................


I was thinking about this discussion the other day when I was out in the
yard. Just thinking about the way nature tends to work, it would be more
of a surprise if poison ivy always had 3 leaflets and never 5. Think
about how white clover had 3 leaflets, almost always, but then there is
that occasional 4 leaf clover in the mix.

Steve

Steve wrote:
Agave wrote:
.....................................
....................One of the things I discovered was that although
poison ivy normally has 3 leaves (or leaflets) it can also have 5 or
more. The following FDA link states the same.
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/796_ivy.html
.................................................


I was thinking about this discussion the other day when I was out in
the yard. Just thinking about the way nature tends to work, it would
be more of a surprise if poison ivy always had 3 leaflets and never 5.
Think about how white clover had 3 leaflets, almost always, but then
there is that occasional 4 leaf clover in the mix.

Steve
Whoa, freaky...I was out yesterday planting some ferns and was
reflecting on this and thinking about 3 and 4 leaf clovers too...wow, an
m-field event (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphogenetic_field), well
maybe not, but a coincidence none the less.