Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.


.... so the gods have tiny brains?

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote:

Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.

... so the gods have tiny brains?

I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion.

Sam Heywood
-- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:33:50 -0400, "Samuel W. Heywood"
wrote:
- Refer: .org
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote:

Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.

... so the gods have tiny brains?

I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion.

I just knew that one very stupid person would not answer the question.

--

"Michael Gray" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:33:50 -0400, "Samuel W. Heywood"
wrote:
- Refer: .org
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote:

Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the
hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed
and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain
maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old,
building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.

... so the gods have tiny brains?

I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion.

I just knew that one very stupid person would not answer the question.

--

Hmmmm. It *is* amazing to see nature at work. In the case of a spider and
it's web: seems pretty 'natural' to me. But then, some people would see the
'miracle' of the construction of a spider-web as proof that Jesus walked on
water, raised people from the dead, and in another 'guise', created the
universe. Now that's what I call a *leap* of faith.

Greywolf

Greywolf "Michael Gray" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:33:50 -0400, "Samuel W. Heywood"
wrote:
- Refer:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote:

Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the
hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed
and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain
maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old,
building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.

... so the gods have tiny brains?

I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion.

I just knew that one very stupid person would not answer the question.

--

Hmmmm. It *is* amazing to see nature at work. In the case of a spider and
it's web: seems pretty 'natural' to me. But then, some people would see the
'miracle' of the construction of a spider-web as proof that Jesus walked on

creation of a spiders web or people having surgery and being brought back from deaths
door there are always those that believe and those that dont in the existence of god or
a holy being and its up to them what their beliefs are.
i think one of the other points being made about the spiders web is a lot of times
people are in such a rush that they dont know how to slow own and enjoy what is
around them in life.
like the spider and its web for example how many people would really take the time to
watch a spider spinning a web or to stop and see how beautiful it is.
what about taking a look at hore frost or dew on trees or beautiful flowers really close up
or sitting in a park or anywhere else really watching nature or things around them.
whether there is a god or not is what people are focusing on but what about the other
side of things like when is the last time that u slowed down and really took a look at
things around u not in general but really in depth .
cyaaaaaa, sockiescat.

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 01:01:00 -0500, "Greywolf"
wrote:
- Refer:

"Michael Gray" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:33:50 -0400, "Samuel W. Heywood"
wrote:
- Refer: .org
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote:

Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the
hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed
and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain
maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old,
building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.

... so the gods have tiny brains?

I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion.

I just knew that one very stupid person would not answer the question.

--

Hmmmm. It *is* amazing to see nature at work. In the case of a spider and
it's web: seems pretty 'natural' to me. But then, some people would see the
'miracle' of the construction of a spider-web as proof that Jesus walked on
water, raised people from the dead, and in another 'guise', created the
universe. Now that's what I call a *leap* of faith.

Greywolf

Rather than a "leap of faith", I prefer to think of it as "jumping
into the gaping bottomless chasm of superstion".

--

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:55:53 +0930, Michael Gray
wrote:

Rather than a "leap of faith", I prefer to think of it as "jumping
into the gaping bottomless chasm of superstion".

I am not sure why non believers think people who are believers are
superstitious.

Spirituality is a very subjective thing and means different things to
different people. When I'm engaged in conversation and the subject of
god comes up, I ask people what they mean by "god." I am always
surprised to find out many people use the term as a metaphor and it
actually means nothing.

My mother is always saying god watches out for her. If she wants to
believe that, and it gives her some solace, I shut my mouth. I don't
engage her in that discussion because I do not believe in god, or that
someone is watching me who created me. It's still nice to allow for
others to have their thoughts and sometimes it's really good to just
shut my mouth.

Jangchub wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:55:53 +0930, Michael Gray
wrote:

Rather than a "leap of faith", I prefer to think of it as "jumping
into the gaping bottomless chasm of superstion".

I am not sure why non believers think people who are believers are
superstitious.


Because it's a tautology when you condsider that belief in
(*) Miraculous and extraordinary events
(*) Supernatural intervention
(*) Angelic apparations
(*) The efficacy of Charms: crucifix, pictures, saint candles
(*) The efficacy of Prayers, Chants, and Ceremony
(*) Biblical Prophecy
(*) ...
are all forms of superstition.

Of course Deists are completely immune to such criticism. Not all
believers are superstitious by definition, just most of them.

It's like saying the story of Jesus the Christ shouldn't be considered
Myth because a lot of people believe it. Strength and number of
conviction is irrelevant.


Spirituality is a very subjective thing and means different things to
different people. When I'm engaged in conversation and the subject of
god comes up, I ask people what they mean by "god." I am always
surprised to find out many people use the term as a metaphor and it
actually means nothing.


Yes, some believers are very rational and lack an anthropomorphic
deity.


My mother is always saying god watches out for her. If she wants to
believe that, and it gives her some solace, I shut my mouth. I don't
engage her in that discussion because I do not believe in god, or that
someone is watching me who created me. It's still nice to allow for
others to have their thoughts and sometimes it's really good to just
shut my mouth.


That sounds like a grade A superstition to me. And I would probably
bite my tongue to. But in a public forum where believers are preaching
to nonbelievers, I think the rules are a bit different. You don't go
out of your way to harrass your mother, and your mother isn't going out
of her way to harrass nonbelievers.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 13:09:12 GMT, Jangchub wrote:
- Refer:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:55:53 +0930, Michael Gray
wrote:

Rather than a "leap of faith", I prefer to think of it as "jumping
into the gaping bottomless chasm of superstion".

I am not sure why non believers think people who are believers are
superstitious.

It could be because: they ARE superstitious!
Believing something that you know ain't so, is the acme of
superstition.
Trusting an effect that has failed all tests since recorded history,
IS SUPERSTITION!

I am not sure why anyone would possibly think otherwise, unless they
have been so effectively brainwashed to exclude certain select
categories of superstitions from the definition.

Chirstians think that native animist beliefs are superstitious (but
Christianity is not), and the natives think that Christianity is
superstitious, (but their beliefs are not)!!!

It is quite laughable, when seen from the outside.

Spirituality is a very subjective thing and means different things to
different people. When I'm engaged in conversation and the subject of
god comes up, I ask people what they mean by "god." I am always
surprised to find out many people use the term as a metaphor and it
actually means nothing.

My mother is always saying god watches out for her. If she wants to
believe that, and it gives her some solace, I shut my mouth. I don't
engage her in that discussion because I do not believe in god, or that
someone is watching me who created me. It's still nice to allow for
others to have their thoughts and sometimes it's really good to just
shut my mouth.

Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote:

Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.

... so the gods have tiny brains?

I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion.


The universe is so complex, I would guess the gods' brains are so tiny
as to be completely nonexistent.