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And some people say there's no God...
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote:
Samuel W. Heywood wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote: Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a 33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone. Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow resemble little gods? He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent designers, despite their very tiny brains. ... so the gods have tiny brains? I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion. Sam Heywood -- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62 |
#2
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And some people say there's no God...
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:33:50 -0400, "Samuel W. Heywood"
wrote: - Refer: .org On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote: Samuel W. Heywood wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote: Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a 33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone. Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow resemble little gods? He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent designers, despite their very tiny brains. ... so the gods have tiny brains? I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion. I just knew that one very stupid person would not answer the question. -- |
#3
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And some people say there's no God...
"Michael Gray" wrote in message ... On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:33:50 -0400, "Samuel W. Heywood" wrote: - Refer: .org On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote: Samuel W. Heywood wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote: Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a 33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone. Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow resemble little gods? He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent designers, despite their very tiny brains. ... so the gods have tiny brains? I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion. I just knew that one very stupid person would not answer the question. -- Hmmmm. It *is* amazing to see nature at work. In the case of a spider and it's web: seems pretty 'natural' to me. But then, some people would see the 'miracle' of the construction of a spider-web as proof that Jesus walked on water, raised people from the dead, and in another 'guise', created the universe. Now that's what I call a *leap* of faith. Greywolf |
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And some people say there's no God...
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 01:01:00 -0500, "Greywolf"
wrote: - Refer: "Michael Gray" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:33:50 -0400, "Samuel W. Heywood" wrote: - Refer: .org On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote: Samuel W. Heywood wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote: Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a 33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone. Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow resemble little gods? He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent designers, despite their very tiny brains. ... so the gods have tiny brains? I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion. I just knew that one very stupid person would not answer the question. -- Hmmmm. It *is* amazing to see nature at work. In the case of a spider and it's web: seems pretty 'natural' to me. But then, some people would see the 'miracle' of the construction of a spider-web as proof that Jesus walked on water, raised people from the dead, and in another 'guise', created the universe. Now that's what I call a *leap* of faith. Greywolf Rather than a "leap of faith", I prefer to think of it as "jumping into the gaping bottomless chasm of superstion". -- |
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And some people say there's no God...
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:55:53 +0930, Michael Gray
wrote: Rather than a "leap of faith", I prefer to think of it as "jumping into the gaping bottomless chasm of superstion". I am not sure why non believers think people who are believers are superstitious. Spirituality is a very subjective thing and means different things to different people. When I'm engaged in conversation and the subject of god comes up, I ask people what they mean by "god." I am always surprised to find out many people use the term as a metaphor and it actually means nothing. My mother is always saying god watches out for her. If she wants to believe that, and it gives her some solace, I shut my mouth. I don't engage her in that discussion because I do not believe in god, or that someone is watching me who created me. It's still nice to allow for others to have their thoughts and sometimes it's really good to just shut my mouth. |
#7
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And some people say there's no God...
Jangchub wrote:
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:55:53 +0930, Michael Gray wrote: Rather than a "leap of faith", I prefer to think of it as "jumping into the gaping bottomless chasm of superstion". I am not sure why non believers think people who are believers are superstitious. Because it's a tautology when you condsider that belief in (*) Miraculous and extraordinary events (*) Supernatural intervention (*) Angelic apparations (*) The efficacy of Charms: crucifix, pictures, saint candles (*) The efficacy of Prayers, Chants, and Ceremony (*) Biblical Prophecy (*) ... are all forms of superstition. Of course Deists are completely immune to such criticism. Not all believers are superstitious by definition, just most of them. It's like saying the story of Jesus the Christ shouldn't be considered Myth because a lot of people believe it. Strength and number of conviction is irrelevant. Spirituality is a very subjective thing and means different things to different people. When I'm engaged in conversation and the subject of god comes up, I ask people what they mean by "god." I am always surprised to find out many people use the term as a metaphor and it actually means nothing. Yes, some believers are very rational and lack an anthropomorphic deity. My mother is always saying god watches out for her. If she wants to believe that, and it gives her some solace, I shut my mouth. I don't engage her in that discussion because I do not believe in god, or that someone is watching me who created me. It's still nice to allow for others to have their thoughts and sometimes it's really good to just shut my mouth. That sounds like a grade A superstition to me. And I would probably bite my tongue to. But in a public forum where believers are preaching to nonbelievers, I think the rules are a bit different. You don't go out of your way to harrass your mother, and your mother isn't going out of her way to harrass nonbelievers. |
#8
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And some people say there's no God...
On 20 Aug 2006 09:50:57 -0700, "Chris H. Fleming"
wrote: Jangchub wrote: On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:55:53 +0930, Michael Gray wrote: Rather than a "leap of faith", I prefer to think of it as "jumping into the gaping bottomless chasm of superstion". I am not sure why non believers think people who are believers are superstitious. Because it's a tautology when you condsider that belief in (*) Miraculous and extraordinary events (*) Supernatural intervention (*) Angelic apparations (*) The efficacy of Charms: crucifix, pictures, saint candles (*) The efficacy of Prayers, Chants, and Ceremony (*) Biblical Prophecy (*) ... are all forms of superstition. Of course Deists are completely immune to such criticism. Not all believers are superstitious by definition, just most of them. It's like saying the story of Jesus the Christ shouldn't be considered Myth because a lot of people believe it. Strength and number of conviction is irrelevant. Spirituality is a very subjective thing and means different things to different people. When I'm engaged in conversation and the subject of god comes up, I ask people what they mean by "god." I am always surprised to find out many people use the term as a metaphor and it actually means nothing. Yes, some believers are very rational and lack an anthropomorphic deity. My mother is always saying god watches out for her. If she wants to believe that, and it gives her some solace, I shut my mouth. I don't engage her in that discussion because I do not believe in god, or that someone is watching me who created me. It's still nice to allow for others to have their thoughts and sometimes it's really good to just shut my mouth. That sounds like a grade A superstition to me. And I would probably bite my tongue to. But in a public forum where believers are preaching to nonbelievers, I think the rules are a bit different. You don't go out of your way to harrass your mother, and your mother isn't going out of her way to harrass nonbelievers. FOLKS COULD YOU PLEASE TAKE THIS TO EMAIL! YOU'RE CLUTTERING UP A GARDEN GROUP WITH YOUR "SPIRITED" (pun intended) DEBATE! Persephone |
#9
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And some people say there's no God...
On 20 Aug 2006 09:50:57 -0700, "Chris H. Fleming"
wrote: Because it's a tautology when you condsider that belief in (*) Miraculous and extraordinary events (*) Supernatural intervention (*) Angelic apparations (*) The efficacy of Charms: crucifix, pictures, saint candles (*) The efficacy of Prayers, Chants, and Ceremony (*) Biblical Prophecy (*) ... are all forms of superstition. I have many images and statues and articles which are considered holy objects. They are motivating to me, and the sole reason why they are here. Then again, I'm a Buddhist who is aethiest. There is no creator god, but there are people who have purified their minds to the point they no longer need a body. This could be called superstitious. The whole of it suits me. I can live a spiritual life and not believe in god. My mother is always saying god watches out for her. If she wants to believe that, and it gives her some solace, I shut my mouth. I don't engage her in that discussion because I do not believe in god, or that someone is watching me who created me. It's still nice to allow for others to have their thoughts and sometimes it's really good to just shut my mouth. That sounds like a grade A superstition to me. And I would probably bite my tongue to. But in a public forum where believers are preaching to nonbelievers, I think the rules are a bit different. You don't go out of your way to harrass your mother, and your mother isn't going out of her way to harrass nonbelievers. Well, that's kind! My mother is beyond superstition and deep into mental illness. I don't say this as a mean statement, but at my age I can no longer ignore it and she has no intention of doing anything about it at 72. I do get annoyed within my thoughts when people either blame or give thanks to an invisible man in the sky. I shrivel up when I'm anywhere and people are discussing that. As for believers who harrass non believers, I would ignore them. It's a problem IMO when someone has to or tends to defend a position as fact. When asked about reincarnation and if science disproved it, The Dalai Lama simply said, "Then we will get rid of it immediately!" |
#10
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And some people say there's no God...
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 13:09:12 GMT, Jangchub wrote:
- Refer: On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:55:53 +0930, Michael Gray wrote: Rather than a "leap of faith", I prefer to think of it as "jumping into the gaping bottomless chasm of superstion". I am not sure why non believers think people who are believers are superstitious. It could be because: they ARE superstitious! Believing something that you know ain't so, is the acme of superstition. Trusting an effect that has failed all tests since recorded history, IS SUPERSTITION! I am not sure why anyone would possibly think otherwise, unless they have been so effectively brainwashed to exclude certain select categories of superstitions from the definition. Chirstians think that native animist beliefs are superstitious (but Christianity is not), and the natives think that Christianity is superstitious, (but their beliefs are not)!!! It is quite laughable, when seen from the outside. Spirituality is a very subjective thing and means different things to different people. When I'm engaged in conversation and the subject of god comes up, I ask people what they mean by "god." I am always surprised to find out many people use the term as a metaphor and it actually means nothing. My mother is always saying god watches out for her. If she wants to believe that, and it gives her some solace, I shut my mouth. I don't engage her in that discussion because I do not believe in god, or that someone is watching me who created me. It's still nice to allow for others to have their thoughts and sometimes it's really good to just shut my mouth. |
#11
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And some people say there's no God...
Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote: Samuel W. Heywood wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote: Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a 33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone. Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow resemble little gods? He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent designers, despite their very tiny brains. ... so the gods have tiny brains? I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion. The universe is so complex, I would guess the gods' brains are so tiny as to be completely nonexistent. |
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