This is really more of a bonsai question, but the bonsai group seems
dead.

Do deciduous trees need any light during the winter after their leaves
fall off? The reason I ask is I want to get a bonsai tree that isn't
suitable for my zone. Rather than wintering it outside where it will
likely freeze and die, I want to have it go through dormancy in a
refrigerator (or maybe my garage). It would be dark in there, but then
the tree wouldn't have any leaves so I'm kind of thinking it wouldn't
matter.

On 23 Aug 2006 15:40:57 -0700, "Scooter the Mighty"
wrote:

This is really more of a bonsai question, but the bonsai group seems
dead.

Do deciduous trees need any light during the winter after their leaves
fall off? The reason I ask is I want to get a bonsai tree that isn't
suitable for my zone. Rather than wintering it outside where it will
likely freeze and die, I want to have it go through dormancy in a
refrigerator (or maybe my garage). It would be dark in there, but then
the tree wouldn't have any leaves so I'm kind of thinking it wouldn't
matter.

There's summer dormancy where nothing grows or if it does it's very
slow growing. And winter dormancy, which requires two things,
temperatures, but more importantly, light or foot candles.

You may want to do more research about the specific species you are
attempting, but trees start going dormant and foliage turns autumn
colors when light is low in the sky.

Scooter the Mighty wrote:
This is really more of a bonsai question, but the bonsai group seems
dead.

Do deciduous trees need any light during the winter after their leaves
fall off? The reason I ask is I want to get a bonsai tree that isn't
suitable for my zone. Rather than wintering it outside where it will
likely freeze and die, I want to have it go through dormancy in a
refrigerator (or maybe my garage). It would be dark in there, but then
the tree wouldn't have any leaves so I'm kind of thinking it wouldn't
matter.



more likely it would be better if you wintered it in your garage if it
has a window and doesn't freeze but stayed around upper 30's or lower
40's. The fridge would be the death of it because there'd be too much
dark. Think about that one for a second........it WOULD matter, as the
sun still shines during winter, as well as moisture, etc......you'll
have to cut back on watering, but not stop completely. What is the tree
by the way? Best thing is to put the bonsai in front of a southern
exposure window in the garage, or a colder room in front of the window.
Water once a month, unless it's warmer than 45 degrees, and if it is,
test the soil's dampness with your finger. Do you have a back porch the
bonsai could winter over?
maddie

madgardener wrote:
Scooter the Mighty wrote:
This is really more of a bonsai question, but the bonsai group seems
dead.

Do deciduous trees need any light during the winter after their leaves
fall off? The reason I ask is I want to get a bonsai tree that isn't
suitable for my zone. Rather than wintering it outside where it will
likely freeze and die, I want to have it go through dormancy in a
refrigerator (or maybe my garage). It would be dark in there, but then
the tree wouldn't have any leaves so I'm kind of thinking it wouldn't
matter.



more likely it would be better if you wintered it in your garage if it
has a window and doesn't freeze but stayed around upper 30's or lower
40's. The fridge would be the death of it because there'd be too much
dark. Think about that one for a second........it WOULD matter, as the
sun still shines during winter, as well as moisture, etc

Well yes, but if the tree has no leaves, does it know there is light
out? I'm not trying to be argumenative, if you know that it matters
I'll take your word for it. I'm just not sure that the fact that the
sun shines in winter necessarily means the tree needs that light, or
that it can't do without it for long enough to meet it's dormancy
requirements.

......you'll
have to cut back on watering, but not stop completely. What is the tree
by the way?

The main one I was thinking of is a Crape Myrtle.

Best thing is to put the bonsai in front of a southern
exposure window in the garage, or a colder room in front of the window.

Unfortunately, my garage doesn't have a window.

Water once a month, unless it's warmer than 45 degrees, and if it is,
test the soil's dampness with your finger. Do you have a back porch the
bonsai could winter over?

I have a back porch but it's not enclosed.

maddie

Scooter the Mighty wrote:
madgardener wrote:

etc

Well yes, but if the tree has no leaves, does it know there is light
out?

yep. I'm sure it is dormant but it's aware there is sunlight. And it
needs some sunlight even when it's dormant. I don't know any plant that
lives totally without sunlight during winter months. yes, I know bulbs
are underground, but those are bulbs and they're feeding off the starch
of the bulb and have roots to access moistures during the dormant time.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, if you know that it matters
I'll take your word for it. I'm just not sure that the fact that the
sun shines in winter necessarily means the tree needs that light, or
that it can't do without it for long enough to meet it's dormancy
requirements.
you're not being argumentative, not in the least. how would we learn if
we didn't ask? this is how I've learned and read and watched garden
shows and such. to make sure, I will look it up tomorrow in my books
and confirm this better. I'm pulling memory of past stuff I read about
this. But I'm sure about plants needing SOME sunlight during winter. I
will get back to you about the book explanations, and hopefully someone
else will jump in here that grows bonsai......and give their's quarter's
worth! G

......you'll
have to cut back on watering, but not stop completely. What is the tree
by the way?

The main one I was thinking of is a Crape Myrtle.
well, a Crape Myrtle eventually drops it's leaves for winter. where are
you at? Here they can be left outside and it gets as low as 0o
sometimes. Tennessee has snows too, and crape myrtles survive. I would
think Chicago or a zone 5 would be the end of a myrtle and a bonsai
would suffer. hell, ANY bonsai would suffer from not enough winter
light and minimal water as the roots are more compact and bound. Come
Spring you'd have to lift it and root prune it anyway when it started
active growth to maintain the shape and encourage blossoms.

Best thing is to put the bonsai in front of a southern
exposure window in the garage, or a colder room in front of the window.

Unfortunately, my garage doesn't have a window.
hmmmmm, well, are you opening and closing it often? if so, that might
provide enough light. What growing zone are you in, and if you don't
know, basic location. Colder than 6 and deffinately more winter would
mean protection from winter drying out and extreme freezing of the
roots. You could even build a hay cold frame around it for winter and
leave it out if you wanted to. bales of hay encircling it with leaves
piled up to insulate if it gets bitter where you are. or throw a piece
of glass over the top if there's going to be below zero temperatures and
lots of snow. I need some affirmation here, people on this. I don't
want to advise him wrongly about this. but I've had luck in a colder
climate with building a straw bale greenhouse to insulate (even used
bags of leaves to encircle a tender pot of something I forget what it
was until I got it into the ground and it survived a rather cold and
snowy winter when I lived in Nashville)



I have a back porch but it's not enclosed.

well, what side of the house is it on? if it's south or west, that would
be enough light and protection from freezing. if it's eastern and north
then no, it will suffer, I'm pretty sure about that one from experiences
I have with perennial container gardens and winter here. AGAINST the
house on the porch if you pay attention and watch it would possibly work.
maddie

snip

What growing zone are you in, and if you don't
know, basic location.

You know, I think I was given some bad information. I live in Seattle
and have been told that we're zone 5 by several different people. I
was puzzled by you saying that crape myrtles do OK down to zero,
because it never gets that cold here. I looked around online and
apparently we're zone 8. Never mind, a crape myrtle should be fine.

Thanks!

Adam

Scooter the Mighty wrote:
snip

What growing zone are you in, and if you don't
know, basic location.

You know, I think I was given some bad information. I live in Seattle
and have been told that we're zone 5 by several different people. I
was puzzled by you saying that crape myrtles do OK down to zero,
because it never gets that cold here. I looked around online and
apparently we're zone 8. Never mind, a crape myrtle should be fine.

Thanks!

Adam

good deal then! just check it occaisonally during the winter to make
sure it's not TOO wet or bony dry (I understand you have a rainy season
during the winter with drought periods during part of summer.....your
crape myrtle will be fine. do you know when to prune the spent blossoms
to encourage more flowers next year and when to NOT prune it to not cut
off the next year's buds? it only needs minimal pruning to cut out
crossing branches. they are easily shaped and can even withstand harsh
coppicing. in the case of your bonsai, just branches that are crossing
will be fine to trim out. if it has bloomed for you, you can cut the
ends of the branches after the blossoms are spent, unless you like the
seed pods. I have a white, a watermelon pink one and a Cherokee red
with darker leaves. Also have a dwarf one that won't get more than three
foot tall at best. And this year snagged a true red one that I have yet
to plant as I need to remove the vinca that will strangle it. It will
go near the rest to make a cluster of them. right now my watermelon
colored one is loaded with HUGE blossoms. I've actually had storms rip
through here and break my white one off at the ground and it regrew back
fairly well. Glad to see you're in a climate that it will flourish in.
maddie

yes... notice the green in the twigs and stems, and if you scratch the twig you will
see green underneath. the chlorophyll is withdrawn from most leaves in fall (which
is why they turn color) and stored, and it is responsive to light. one reason they
know when to "start their engines" in spring at the correct time is photoperiod, the
length of the day. Ingrid

"Scooter the Mighty" wrote:
Well yes, but if the tree has no leaves, does it know there is light
out?


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