On 13 Oct 2006 10:16:24 -0700, "raycruzer"
wrote:

Weed-Be-Gone is safe for grass, according to the Ortho instructions,
except for certain grasses like St. Augustine, for example. Ortho has
a different product for St. Augustine grass weeds. Quoting from Ortho:
"Do not use on Floratam, a variety of St. Augustinegrass common in
Florida. Do not spray on Carpetgrass, Dichondra or desirable clovers."

I've seen one complaint on the web of a tree that was half-killed by
something coincidentally shortly after spraying the stuff on weeds
around the tree. This may be merely a coincidence.

In all cases, it's important to read the label. Of course, the
instructions are usually in very fine print and sometimes we're hasty
in not reading the instructions very carefully. There's a large image
of the instructions on a Roundup container published on the weedtwister
website, so that people can read the details and take their time. No
need to rush into buying this or any product or tool. Our timing is
rather irrelevant as far as the world of weeds is concerned.

----
Raycruzer

Probably not a coincidence. Your trees are your largest "broadleaf
weeds" in the weed-n-feed worldview. Use these chemicals at your own
risk.

Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist #TX-0236AT

I'm curious to know if people are willing to spend, say, an hour a week
on mowing their lawns, how much time are they willing to devote to
pulling weeds?

---
Raycruzer
weeder


Treedweller wrote:
On 13 Oct 2006 10:16:24 -0700, "raycruzer"
wrote:

Weed-Be-Gone is safe for grass, according to the Ortho instructions,
except for certain grasses like St. Augustine, for example. Ortho has
a different product for St. Augustine grass weeds. Quoting from Ortho:
"Do not use on Floratam, a variety of St. Augustinegrass common in
Florida. Do not spray on Carpetgrass, Dichondra or desirable clovers."

I've seen one complaint on the web of a tree that was half-killed by
something coincidentally shortly after spraying the stuff on weeds
around the tree. This may be merely a coincidence.

In all cases, it's important to read the label. Of course, the
instructions are usually in very fine print and sometimes we're hasty
in not reading the instructions very carefully. There's a large image
of the instructions on a Roundup container published on the weedtwister
website, so that people can read the details and take their time. No
need to rush into buying this or any product or tool. Our timing is
rather irrelevant as far as the world of weeds is concerned.

----
Raycruzer

Probably not a coincidence. Your trees are your largest "broadleaf
weeds" in the weed-n-feed worldview. Use these chemicals at your own
risk.

Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist #TX-0236AT

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:10:36 GMT, bizbee
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:39:31 -0500 in
, Treedweller
graced the world with this thought:

Probably not a coincidence. Your trees are your largest "broadleaf
weeds" in the weed-n-feed worldview. Use these chemicals at your own
risk.

A master gardener at the nursery told me that a broadleaf killer is
the way to get rid of suckers popping up in the lawn, and won't hurt
the tree. Of course, this is an established tree, but my guess ist
that a cup of broadleaf sprayed on the lawn isn't going to have an
affect on a thirty foot tall, 20 year old tree.

No need for a cup full. I use a hand sprayer, the kind that you hold
in one hand and pull a lever to eject a small stream. Squirt it on
the broadleaf, usually dandelions in my area and it is gone in couple
of days. I use Weed- B-Gone. No danger to trees or non-target
species.

John

Has anyone else lost a tree to a broadleaf killer?

If you're trying to get rid of crabgrass in your lawn, will
weed-be-gone work?

---
Raycruzer
weeder


John Bachman wrote:
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:10:36 GMT, bizbee
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:39:31 -0500 in
, Treedweller
graced the world with this thought:

Probably not a coincidence. Your trees are your largest "broadleaf
weeds" in the weed-n-feed worldview. Use these chemicals at your own
risk.

A master gardener at the nursery told me that a broadleaf killer is
the way to get rid of suckers popping up in the lawn, and won't hurt
the tree. Of course, this is an established tree, but my guess ist
that a cup of broadleaf sprayed on the lawn isn't going to have an
affect on a thirty foot tall, 20 year old tree.

No need for a cup full. I use a hand sprayer, the kind that you hold
in one hand and pull a lever to eject a small stream. Squirt it on
the broadleaf, usually dandelions in my area and it is gone in couple
of days. I use Weed- B-Gone. No danger to trees or non-target
species.

John

On 16 Oct 2006 16:43:28 -0700, "raycruzer"
wrote:

Has anyone else lost a tree to a broadleaf killer?

I cannot imagine losing a tree if you follow the label instructions.

If you're trying to get rid of crabgrass in your lawn, will
weed-be-gone work?

No. Weed-B-Gone kills broadleaf weeds. The term broadleaf is
self-descriptive.

The best crabgrass control is a pre-emergent herbicide (both organic
and non-organic exist) in early spring before the crabgrass seeds
germinate. Turf grass spreads through runners, not seed, and hence is
not affected.

ALWAYS FOLLOW THE LABEL INSTRUCTIONS.

John

On 16 Oct 2006 16:43:28 -0700, "raycruzer"
wrote:

Has anyone else lost a tree to a broadleaf killer?

If you're trying to get rid of crabgrass in your lawn, will
weed-be-gone work?

---
I'm taking that as doubt that herbicides harm trees. I have provided
a number of links below to support the statements I made previously.

If you read through the links, you will likely notice that, as others
have said, most herbicides will not harm trees if used properly. That
raises two points:

1. even people who make mistakes often think they are doing everything
right. When an amateur gardener applies chemicals, it is more likely
he will overlook a simple mistake.

2. you want to be careful that you don't use one of the "other"
herbicides.

I have seen trees damaged by weed-n-feed. I have heard it mentioned
at many lectures in tree conferences as a common cause of tree damage
or death. I have read about it in industry journals and texts. I
stand by my earlier statement: use them at your own risk. But, of
course, if you choose to use them, follow the instructions carefully.

K

the links:

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/MG249
"Fertilizer mixes that contain weed killers should be used sparingly,
if at all, within the root zones of trees because the weed killer
could harm the tree."

http://www.extension.umn.edu/project...lmother-c.html
"Injury can be by direct herbicide contact or through uptake by the
roots, causing browning, curling, and dying of leaves. Leaves may also
be stunted, leathery, and/or contain irregular growth patterns."

http://cipm.ncsu.edu/ent/Southern_Re.../OPM/chap3.htm
"Environmental contamination and injury to nontarget plants can occur
occasionally when all normal precautions are taken. However, such
contamination and injury are more common when pesticides are
mishandled or applied under improper conditions."

http://www.plantanswers.com/garden_column/mar03/4.htm
"Most broadleaf herbicides kill trees as well as weeds and are able to
move readily through the soil. Pramitol, a non-selective herbicide
commonly applied to gravel driveways and beneath above-ground pools,
will kill trees at a considerable distance from where it is originally
applied."

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/county/rams...eral/weeds.htm
"SPRAY ONLY THE WEEDS AND DO NOT ALLOW THE HERBICIDE TO DRIFT ONTO THE
TREES AS DAMAGE WILL OCCUR."

http://www.blackburnnursery.com/tips/herbicides.htm
"Trees often recover from exposure to the first group (compounds used
to kill broadleaf weeds). The leaves will become distorted and will
often drop, but depending on species and dosage, the trees will appear
normal in about 2 years. However, death can occur if the dosage is
high."

On 16 Oct 2006 16:43:28 -0700, "raycruzer"
wrote:

Has anyone else lost a tree to a broadleaf killer?


I have purposely killed a (small) tree using a broadleaf killer, but
it is faster and easier to pull it out by hand. I recommend using
broadleaf killers cautiously and sparingly. RoundUp is safer to use
because it decomposes quickly and won't harm the root systems of
plants you really want to protect.

If you're trying to get rid of crabgrass in your lawn, will
weed-be-gone work?


No. Weed-B-Gone is formulated to distinguish broadleaf plants from
grasses. Crabgrass is a grass. However, there are lawn products to
kill crabgrass but not other grasses--I tried one product and it was
not effective. Best defense against crabgrass is a thick lawn. I
overseed every year and no longer have the need to use pre-emergence
applications, plus fewer weeds. Years ago I thought premium grass
seed was expensive, but in the long run it saves time and money and
results in a very nice lawn. All my neighbors ask me how I did it!

---
Raycruzer
weeder


John Bachman wrote:
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:10:36 GMT, bizbee
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:39:31 -0500 in
, Treedweller
graced the world with this thought:

Probably not a coincidence. Your trees are your largest "broadleaf
weeds" in the weed-n-feed worldview. Use these chemicals at your own
risk.

A master gardener at the nursery told me that a broadleaf killer is
the way to get rid of suckers popping up in the lawn, and won't hurt
the tree. Of course, this is an established tree, but my guess ist
that a cup of broadleaf sprayed on the lawn isn't going to have an
affect on a thirty foot tall, 20 year old tree.

No need for a cup full. I use a hand sprayer, the kind that you hold
in one hand and pull a lever to eject a small stream. Squirt it on
the broadleaf, usually dandelions in my area and it is gone in couple
of days. I use Weed- B-Gone. No danger to trees or non-target
species.

John

Due to the dangers of herbicides in general, I have very sparingly used
them, and I have controlled my weeds primarily by removing them by hand
and various tools, such as the Weed Twister.

Since I don't have a lawn, because my house is on a hillside (lots of
weeds on empty lots on both sides of my house), I cannot say with
confidence how much effort it takes to control weeds in a lawn by hand
or tools, with no chemicals.

My guess is that by working with smart tools, you could manage a 50' x
50' lawn with about 30 minutes of effort a week. This may be comparable
to the time it takes to mow a lawn, in general. Of course, with larger
lawns, the time needed for weeding will increase proportionately. For
those of you with large or smalll lawns, is 30 minutes a week a
reasonable time-budget for managing weeds without chemicals?

---
Raycruzer
weeder


Phisherman wrote:
On 16 Oct 2006 16:43:28 -0700, "raycruzer"
wrote:

Has anyone else lost a tree to a broadleaf killer?


I have purposely killed a (small) tree using a broadleaf killer, but
it is faster and easier to pull it out by hand. I recommend using
broadleaf killers cautiously and sparingly. RoundUp is safer to use
because it decomposes quickly and won't harm the root systems of
plants you really want to protect.

If you're trying to get rid of crabgrass in your lawn, will
weed-be-gone work?


No. Weed-B-Gone is formulated to distinguish broadleaf plants from
grasses. Crabgrass is a grass. However, there are lawn products to
kill crabgrass but not other grasses--I tried one product and it was
not effective. Best defense against crabgrass is a thick lawn. I
overseed every year and no longer have the need to use pre-emergence
applications, plus fewer weeds. Years ago I thought premium grass
seed was expensive, but in the long run it saves time and money and
results in a very nice lawn. All my neighbors ask me how I did it!

---
Raycruzer
weeder


John Bachman wrote:
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 02:10:36 GMT, bizbee
wrote:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:39:31 -0500 in
, Treedweller
graced the world with this thought:

Probably not a coincidence. Your trees are your largest "broadleaf
weeds" in the weed-n-feed worldview. Use these chemicals at your own
risk.

A master gardener at the nursery told me that a broadleaf killer is
the way to get rid of suckers popping up in the lawn, and won't hurt
the tree. Of course, this is an established tree, but my guess ist
that a cup of broadleaf sprayed on the lawn isn't going to have an
affect on a thirty foot tall, 20 year old tree.

No need for a cup full. I use a hand sprayer, the kind that you hold
in one hand and pull a lever to eject a small stream. Squirt it on
the broadleaf, usually dandelions in my area and it is gone in couple
of days. I use Weed- B-Gone. No danger to trees or non-target
species.

John