Hello,

I'm going into the third year with my vegetable garden here in Ithaca, NY,
and I've got a serious issue I need to deal with -- one corner of the garden
floods.

I started the first year with a plot about 9 feet wide and 18 feet long, and
everything went swimmingly. Roto-tilled in peat moss and compost. The next
year I extended the plot by about 5 feet (now 14x18), roto-tilled in peat
moss and compost. There is a slope to the plot, but it didn't affect the
lower end of the original plot. Unfortunately, the new corner floods -- I
can get an inch or two of standing water there in the slightly lower pathway
(I raised the bed around it). Damned if I didn't plant my favorite heirloom
tomatoes in that very corner. Still managed to get a small yield. Spent a
lot of last year's rainy summer bailing it out.

This year I want to fix things. I'm planning to redistribute the soil around
the garden a little to build up that end, but there's not that much soil I
want to move. I'm thinking of other ideas -- but need the solution to be
cheap, or free. Here's what I know I have at my disposal:

*My own compost, although there isn't much, or enough, of it
*I have heard there is a huge pile of rotting horse manure on one of the
Cornell equestrian lots that people available for public taking
*Compost is available from the City of Ithaca, what I think is a pile of the
brush they clear each year and let decompose. It is also free.

My question is, what is the best way to improve drainage and build up that
end of the garden that won't damage the soil by being too rich? If, say, I
get compost from the City, should I mix it with peat moss and the existing
soil as far down as I can dig? Or is there another way to raise the soil
height and improve drainage that I'm not thinking of?

I am not at all interested in a water garden, swamp garden, or backyard bog!

Any advice or thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Chris

In article ,
Christopher Riley wrote:

Hello,

I'm going into the third year with my vegetable garden here in Ithaca, NY,
and I've got a serious issue I need to deal with -- one corner of the garden
floods.

I started the first year with a plot about 9 feet wide and 18 feet long, and
everything went swimmingly. Roto-tilled in peat moss and compost. The next
year I extended the plot by about 5 feet (now 14x18), roto-tilled in peat
moss and compost. There is a slope to the plot, but it didn't affect the
lower end of the original plot. Unfortunately, the new corner floods -- I
can get an inch or two of standing water there in the slightly lower pathway
(I raised the bed around it). Damned if I didn't plant my favorite heirloom
tomatoes in that very corner. Still managed to get a small yield. Spent a
lot of last year's rainy summer bailing it out.

This year I want to fix things. I'm planning to redistribute the soil around
the garden a little to build up that end, but there's not that much soil I
want to move. I'm thinking of other ideas -- but need the solution to be
cheap, or free. Here's what I know I have at my disposal:

*My own compost, although there isn't much, or enough, of it
*I have heard there is a huge pile of rotting horse manure on one of the
Cornell equestrian lots that people available for public taking
*Compost is available from the City of Ithaca, what I think is a pile of the
brush they clear each year and let decompose. It is also free.

My question is, what is the best way to improve drainage and build up that
end of the garden that won't damage the soil by being too rich? If, say, I
get compost from the City, should I mix it with peat moss and the existing
soil as far down as I can dig? Or is there another way to raise the soil
height and improve drainage that I'm not thinking of?

I am not at all interested in a water garden, swamp garden, or backyard bog!

Any advice or thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Chris

Any chance for a small ditch ?

Bill

--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

can you buy a load of loam?

On 3/27/07 11:44 AM, in article
, "beecrofter"
wrote:


can you buy a load of loam?


This'll sound like a dumb question, but where does one buy a load of loam?
Agway?

On Mar 27, 4:18 pm, Christopher Riley wrote:
On 3/27/07 11:44 AM, in article
om, "beecrofter"

wrote:

can you buy a load of loam?

This'll sound like a dumb question, but where does one buy a load of loam?
Agway?

Ask around at the Agway, somebody will know who sells topsoil and loam
or you can leave a card on their bulletin board - it's usually full of
spring lamb and chicks and ducks ads by now. Or look in the phonebook
under "backhoe service" or "Ecavation "

In article ,
says...

This year I want to fix things. I'm planning to redistribute the soil around
the garden a little to build up that end, but there's not that much soil I
want to move. I'm thinking of other ideas -- but need the solution to be
cheap, or free. Here's what I know I have at my disposal:

*My own compost, although there isn't much, or enough, of it

*I have heard there is a huge pile of rotting horse manure on one of the
Cornell equestrian lots that people available for public taking


You "heard" some unconfirmed rumour about it? Frankly, that
sounds like a bunch of horse-shit.


--
Want Privacy?
http://www.MinistryOfPrivacy.com/

On 3/28/07 12:16 AM, in article ,
" wrote:

In article ,
says...

This year I want to fix things. I'm planning to redistribute the soil around
the garden a little to build up that end, but there's not that much soil I
want to move. I'm thinking of other ideas -- but need the solution to be
cheap, or free. Here's what I know I have at my disposal:

*My own compost, although there isn't much, or enough, of it

*I have heard there is a huge pile of rotting horse manure on one of the
Cornell equestrian lots that people available for public taking


You "heard" some unconfirmed rumour about it? Frankly, that
sounds like a bunch of horse-shit.


It does, doesn't it? But this isn't a my-cousin-knows-a-guy rumor. It's the
real poop.

Christopher Riley wrote in
:

On 3/28/07 12:16 AM, in article
,
" wrote:

In article ,
says...

This year I want to fix things. I'm planning to redistribute the
soil around the garden a little to build up that end, but there's
not that much soil I want to move. I'm thinking of other ideas --
but need the solution to be cheap, or free. Here's what I know I
have at my disposal:

*My own compost, although there isn't much, or enough, of it

*I have heard there is a huge pile of rotting horse manure on one of
the Cornell equestrian lots that people available for public taking


You "heard" some unconfirmed rumour about it? Frankly, that
sounds like a bunch of horse-shit.


It does, doesn't it? But this isn't a my-cousin-knows-a-guy rumor.
It's the real poop.


Just remember: shit in, shit out.

have at my disposal:

*I have heard there is a huge pile of rotting horse manure on one of
the Cornell equestrian lots that people available for public taking

You "heard" some unconfirmed rumour about it? Frankly, that
sounds like a bunch of horse-shit.

It does, doesn't it? But this isn't a my-cousin-knows-a-guy rumor.
It's the real poop.

Just remember: shit in, shit out.

Man--ure all creating a big doo-fuss!

"mleblanca" wrote in news:1175143222.556795.114740
@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:


have at my disposal:

*I have heard there is a huge pile of rotting horse manure on one of
the Cornell equestrian lots that people available for public taking

You "heard" some unconfirmed rumour about it? Frankly, that
sounds like a bunch of horse-shit.

It does, doesn't it? But this isn't a my-cousin-knows-a-guy rumor.
It's the real poop.

Just remember: shit in, shit out.

Man--ure all creating a big doo-fuss!


All in all, I'd rather be fishing... for crappies.

On Mar 29, 6:16 am, FragileWarrior
wrote:
"mleblanca" wrote in news:1175143222.556795.114740
@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:



have at my disposal:

*I have heard there is a huge pile of rotting horse manure on one of
the Cornell equestrian lots that people available for public taking

You "heard" some unconfirmed rumour about it? Frankly, that
sounds like a bunch of horse-shit.

It does, doesn't it? But this isn't a my-cousin-knows-a-guy rumor.
It's the real poop.

Just remember: shit in, shit out.

Man--ure all creating a big doo-fuss!

All in all, I'd rather be fishing... for crappies.


Ha........good one. I was trying to find a way to fit that one
in........
didn't think of adding 'pies' to it

But I really think everyone is being rather fecestious.
Now.....SCAT!!!!

Just raise the beds to the point where they do not flood anymore.
Granted, I do not have the clay that predominates in Ithaca, a place
I visited so many times I know which soil it has. But the paths
between
my beds flood every spring, and the garlic in the beds, also sensitive
to
waterlogging, does not care. There are about 4 inches between water
level
and beds surface. To build up your beds, I prefer cinder blocks. You
can
plant carrots, parsnips or radicchio in the blocks holes if you want
to
use the space maximally.

Also, if you are confident of your disease
situation, it is a good idea to leave roots in the ground when you
clean
up in the fall, they will decay and become a draining channel. Many
vegetables get down to 4 feet or more. Not advisable with cabbage.

To fill in, just about any organic material you can lay your hands on
will do,
if you are patient enough. I prefer to get uncomposted stuff, pile it
high,
plant things in it that will manage, and wait. You can surely find a
tree
company that will deliver a load of wood chips for free. They are very
harsh, but
if you mix a bit of manure in it, potatoes will grow decently right in
the chips.
If you top dress with wood ash to balance the pH ( a couple of times
during the season), plus the manure, cucurbitae, garlic and tomatoes
will
grow well in it. Greens, peas or carrots will not grow in such stuff
though.
The chips do take a couple of years to decompose, but in the end you
have
a soil with a thicker humus than with other organic stuff.

If you can get the manure, most everything will grow well in it, and
the
next year your soil is already fine for general use. I have no
experience
with city compost, but if it is mostly leaves, they turn into quality,
neutral soil where everything grows by midsummer. Just pile it high
enough.
If you can't make the beds, just make the pile, plant a melon or
squash on
top, and let it sprawl.


On Mar 26, 4:42 pm, Christopher Riley wrote:
Hello,

I'm going into the third year with my vegetable garden here in Ithaca, NY,
and I've got a serious issue I need to deal with -- one corner of the garden
floods.

I started the first year with a plot about 9 feet wide and 18 feet long, and
everything went swimmingly. Roto-tilled in peat moss and compost. The next
year I extended the plot by about 5 feet (now 14x18), roto-tilled in peat
moss and compost. There is a slope to the plot, but it didn't affect the
lower end of the original plot. Unfortunately, the new corner floods -- I
can get an inch or two of standing water there in the slightly lower pathway
(I raised the bed around it). Damned if I didn't plant my favorite heirloom
tomatoes in that very corner. Still managed to get a small yield. Spent a
lot of last year's rainy summer bailing it out.

This year I want to fix things. I'm planning to redistribute the soil around
the garden a little to build up that end, but there's not that much soil I
want to move. I'm thinking of other ideas -- but need the solution to be
cheap, or free. Here's what I know I have at my disposal:

*My own compost, although there isn't much, or enough, of it
*I have heard there is a huge pile of rotting horse manure on one of the
Cornell equestrian lots that people available for public taking
*Compost is available from the City of Ithaca, what I think is a pile of the
brush they clear each year and let decompose. It is also free.

My question is, what is the best way to improve drainage and build up that
end of the garden that won't damage the soil by being too rich? If, say, I
get compost from the City, should I mix it with peat moss and the existing
soil as far down as I can dig? Or is there another way to raise the soil
height and improve drainage that I'm not thinking of?

I am not at all interested in a water garden, swamp garden, or backyard bog!

Any advice or thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Chris

"mleblanca" wrote in
oups.com:

On Mar 29, 6:16 am, FragileWarrior
wrote:
"mleblanca" wrote in
news:1175143222.556795.114740 @p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:



have at my disposal:

*I have heard there is a huge pile of rotting horse manure on
one of the Cornell equestrian lots that people available for
public taking

You "heard" some unconfirmed rumour about it? Frankly, that
sounds like a bunch of horse-shit.

It does, doesn't it? But this isn't a my-cousin-knows-a-guy
rumor. It's the real poop.

Just remember: shit in, shit out.

Man--ure all creating a big doo-fuss!

All in all, I'd rather be fishing... for crappies.


Ha........good one. I was trying to find a way to fit that one
in........
didn't think of adding 'pies' to it

But I really think everyone is being rather fecestious.
Now.....SCAT!!!!

I had to go anyway. I'm making cowpies for supper.

"simy1" wrote in
oups.com:

Just raise the beds to the point where they do not flood anymore.
Granted, I do not have the clay that predominates in Ithaca, a place
I visited so many times I know which soil it has. But the paths
between
my beds flood every spring, and the garlic in the beds, also sensitive
to
waterlogging, does not care. There are about 4 inches between water
level
and beds surface. To build up your beds, I prefer cinder blocks. You
can
plant carrots, parsnips or radicchio in the blocks holes if you want
to
use the space maximally.

Also, if you are confident of your disease
situation, it is a good idea to leave roots in the ground when you
clean
up in the fall, they will decay and become a draining channel. Many
vegetables get down to 4 feet or more. Not advisable with cabbage.

To fill in, just about any organic material you can lay your hands on
will do,
if you are patient enough. I prefer to get uncomposted stuff, pile it
high,
plant things in it that will manage, and wait. You can surely find a
tree
company that will deliver a load of wood chips for free. They are very
harsh, but
if you mix a bit of manure in it, potatoes will grow decently right in
the chips.
If you top dress with wood ash to balance the pH ( a couple of times
during the season), plus the manure, cucurbitae, garlic and tomatoes
will
grow well in it. Greens, peas or carrots will not grow in such stuff
though.
The chips do take a couple of years to decompose, but in the end you
have
a soil with a thicker humus than with other organic stuff.

If you can get the manure, most everything will grow well in it, and
the
next year your soil is already fine for general use. I have no
experience
with city compost, but if it is mostly leaves, they turn into quality,
neutral soil where everything grows by midsummer. Just pile it high
enough.
If you can't make the beds, just make the pile, plant a melon or
squash on
top, and let it sprawl.


On Mar 26, 4:42 pm, Christopher Riley wrote:
Hello,

I'm going into the third year with my vegetable garden here in
Ithaca, NY, and I've got a serious issue I need to deal with -- one
corner of the garden floods.

I started the first year with a plot about 9 feet wide and 18 feet
long, and everything went swimmingly. Roto-tilled in peat moss and
compost. The next year I extended the plot by about 5 feet (now
14x18), roto-tilled in peat moss and compost. There is a slope to the
plot, but it didn't affect the lower end of the original plot.
Unfortunately, the new corner floods -- I can get an inch or two of
standing water there in the slightly lower pathway (I raised the bed
around it). Damned if I didn't plant my favorite heirloom tomatoes in
that very corner. Still managed to get a small yield. Spent a lot of
last year's rainy summer bailing it out.

This year I want to fix things. I'm planning to redistribute the soil
around the garden a little to build up that end, but there's not that
much soil I want to move. I'm thinking of other ideas -- but need the
solution to be cheap, or free. Here's what I know I have at my
disposal:

*My own compost, although there isn't much, or enough, of it
*I have heard there is a huge pile of rotting horse manure on one of
the Cornell equestrian lots that people available for public taking
*Compost is available from the City of Ithaca, what I think is a pile
of the brush they clear each year and let decompose. It is also free.

My question is, what is the best way to improve drainage and build up
that end of the garden that won't damage the soil by being too rich?
If, say, I get compost from the City, should I mix it with peat moss
and the existing soil as far down as I can dig? Or is there another
way to raise the soil height and improve drainage that I'm not
thinking of?

I am not at all interested in a water garden, swamp garden, or
backyard bog!

Any advice or thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Chris




There's an article in Better Homes and Gardens April 2003, titled:
SUCCESS IN SOGGY SOIL, on someone who had a wet yard and fixed it. You
could check your library for a copy. Basically, though, they just kept
dumping in tons of topsoil, year after year.

On Mar 29, 6:16 am, FragileWarrior
wrote:

I had to go anyway. I'm making cowpies for supper.

Oh, Yummy! But you know, they'll just go to waste.
I worked out in the garden all day today. There is a lot
to clean up. Now I am pooped!!

Emilie
who actually did work in her garden, cleaning up, pruning,
and mulching, and getting ready to get the tomato plants
in the ground. The lilacs are blooming and there were 8
W Tiger Swallowtails going nuts over them.
mle