We (my wife, as I said she was nuts) did an experiment with tomatoes and
red SRM mulch this year and I am eating crow.

The plants in the mulch row are at least twice as big as the row planted
in bare dirt... same plants only two feet away.

Anyone else have experience with this stuff?

js

--
PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com

your experimental design is flawed. you needed to mulch the other
with cypress or some other colored mulch as a control. bare dirt is
not a proper control to the red mulch. Ingrid

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:01:59 -0600, Jack Schmidling
wrote:

We (my wife, as I said she was nuts) did an experiment with tomatoes and
red SRM mulch this year and I am eating crow.

The plants in the mulch row are at least twice as big as the row planted
in bare dirt... same plants only two feet away.

Anyone else have experience with this stuff?

js

On Jun 12, 10:56?am, wrote:
your experimental design is flawed. you needed to mulch the other
with cypress or some other colored mulch as a control. bare dirt is
not a proper control to the red mulch. Ingrid







Jack Schmidling wrote:

We (my wife, as I said she was nuts) did an experiment with tomatoes and
red SRM mulch this year and I am eating crow.

The plants in the mulch row are at least twice as big as the row planted
in bare dirt... same plants only two feet away.

Bare dirt is the *only* proper scientific control against the red SRM
mulch... the poster says right there, "bare dirt".

Really doesn't need a control, not when planted in the same soil, in
very close proximity, and not when the result is so obviously such a
great difference in plant size, size being the only result being
tested. Using a single different mulch is not a scientific control,
using no mulch is the only practical scientific control because all
else being equal (which it is) that is precisely the only element for
which the test is being conducted... arbitrarilly tossing in some
other kind of mulch will only skew the test, because then you'd need
to test the red SRM against every other known mulch... and since
you're not the mulch goddess you can't choose which other mulch from
the many thousands to employ... why not choose peanut shells, or
buckwheat husks... you can't, the test is red against dirt. The test
as described is to compare the red SRM against no mulch and is exactly
what occured... *perfect science*. If after the test the "plants are
at least twice as big" (not just perhaps borderline difference to
argue about), then res ipsa loquitor, the scientific value of the test
by its results speaks for itself. By your logic you're assuming that
these gardeners regularly use some other mulch, but there is no such
evidence, but there is evidence to the contrary... asssuming ones
fantasy is not at all scientific. And if they do regualry use a
different mulch then that one and that one only would be the only
acceptible control in their case. In your world you can do as you
please... perhaps in your world you shred your soiled red panties for
mulch, perhaps you should run a control with your laundered red
panties... but this is about their world, and in their world the only
possible scientific control is *their* dirt.

Jack Schmidling expounded:

We (my wife, as I said she was nuts) did an experiment with tomatoes and
red SRM mulch this year and I am eating crow.

The plants in the mulch row are at least twice as big as the row planted
in bare dirt... same plants only two feet away.

Anyone else have experience with this stuff?

I've got it out there for the first time, and didn't plant a 'control'
plot, so I'll just have to wait and see. My main objective is to cut
down on early blight.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

In article .com,
Sheldon wrote:

On Jun 12, 10:56?am, wrote:
your experimental design is flawed. you needed to mulch the other
with cypress or some other colored mulch as a control. bare dirt is
not a proper control to the red mulch. Ingrid







Jack Schmidling wrote:

We (my wife, as I said she was nuts) did an experiment with tomatoes and
red SRM mulch this year and I am eating crow.

The plants in the mulch row are at least twice as big as the row planted
in bare dirt... same plants only two feet away.

Bare dirt is the *only* proper scientific control against the red SRM
mulch... the poster says right there, "bare dirt".

Really doesn't need a control, not when planted in the same soil, in
very close proximity, and not when the result is so obviously such a
great difference in plant size, size being the only result being
tested. Using a single different mulch is not a scientific control,
using no mulch is the only practical scientific control because all
else being equal (which it is) that is precisely the only element for
which the test is being conducted... arbitrarilly tossing in some
other kind of mulch will only skew the test, because then you'd need
to test the red SRM against every other known mulch... and since
you're not the mulch goddess you can't choose which other mulch from
the many thousands to employ... why not choose peanut shells, or
buckwheat husks... you can't, the test is red against dirt. The test
as described is to compare the red SRM against no mulch and is exactly
what occured... *perfect science*. If after the test the "plants are
at least twice as big" (not just perhaps borderline difference to
argue about), then res ipsa loquitor, the scientific value of the test
by its results speaks for itself. By your logic you're assuming that
these gardeners regularly use some other mulch, but there is no such
evidence, but there is evidence to the contrary... asssuming ones
fantasy is not at all scientific. And if they do regualry use a
different mulch then that one and that one only would be the only
acceptible control in their case. In your world you can do as you
please... perhaps in your world you shred your soiled red panties for
mulch, perhaps you should run a control with your laundered red
panties... but this is about their world, and in their world the only
possible scientific control is *their* dirt.

Oh lord, another one come down from the mountain with his clay tablets.
Another turnip truck must have lost it's load. This ones got a real
'tude. Is it a full moon tonight?

- Billy
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

if it is mulch vs bare dirt, correct.

if however it is RED mulch vs ?? the ?? needs to be some OTHER color
of mulch. hell, it can even be shredded newspaper.

I think it is obvious that mulch will cool the soil and keep the soil
moist much longer. no experiment is needed at all.

Ingrid

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:49:59 -0700, Sheldon wrote:
Bare dirt is the *only* proper scientific control against the red SRM
mulch... the poster says right there, "bare dirt".

On Jun 13, 10:35?am, wrote:
if it is mulch vs bare dirt, correct.

if however it is RED mulch vs ?? the ?? needs to be some OTHER color
of mulch. hell, it can even be shredded newspaper.

I think it is obvious that mulch will cool the soil and keep the soil
moist much longer. no experiment is needed at all.

Actually anything that impedes evaporation keeps the soil from
cooling... evaporation is what cools soil, the more air circulation
the more the soil cools. Most mulches (unless highly reflective and
porous) act to keep soil warmer... dark mulches can kill plants by
causing roots to literally cook. Personally I would never use that
red plastic unlesss they come up with a porous/woven version... air
and water must be able to freely penetrate for any mulch to be
worthwhile... I don't consider any plastic sheeting a mulch,
regardless of color.

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:03:42 -0700, Sheldon wrote:
Actually anything that impedes evaporation keeps the soil from
cooling... evaporation is what cools soil, the more air circulation
the more the soil cools.
........ true

Most mulches (unless highly reflective and
porous) act to keep soil warmer... dark mulches can kill plants by
causing roots to literally cook.
............ up here in zone 5 mulch is used to keep the soil cool.
tomatoes are never mulched until the soil temp is high enough that it
wont impede growth. and mulches are used to moderate soil temp,
including keeping the soil cold under fruit trees in spring so they
wont blossom out to soon. Ingrid

On Jun 14, 11:41?am, wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:03:42 -0700, Sheldon wrote:
Actually anything that impedes evaporation keeps the soil from
cooling... evaporation is what cools soil, the more air circulation
the more the soil cools.

....... true

Most mulches (unless highly reflective andporous) act to keep soil warmer... dark mulches can kill plants by
causing roots to literally cook.

........... up here in zone 5 mulch is used to keep the soil cool.

You not but a few hours ago claimed you reside on the Alaskan
tundra... and grow fruit trees there.

tomatoes are never mulched until the soil temp is high enough that it
wont impede growth. and mulches are used to moderate soil temp,
including keeping the soil cold under fruit trees in spring so they
wont blossom out to soon. Ingrid

It's scientifically impossible for mulch to cool soil, mulch (any
mulch) can only act to warm soil. Mulch absorbs radiant energy from
the sun, transfers heat energy directly to the soil, and insulates to
retain heat... when soil temperatures become too warm then it's best
to remove mulch and/or shade the area from direct sunlight with some
sort of suspended light diffuser, such as opaque plastic sheeting that
permits lots of aeration. Mulch does not add shade... any mulch
suspended above the soil is no longer mulch, then it becomes a
parasol. I've now concluded that you are not any kind of dr., perhaps
of bs.

Btw, tomatoes do not grow during daylight, tomatoes are in the
nightshade family, they absorb energy during daylight and only grow at
night time. Tomato plants of any age love hot days and hot nights...
tomatoes don't do well when nights are cool.

In article . com,
Sheldon wrote:

........... up here in zone 5 mulch is used to keep the soil cool.

You not but a few hours ago claimed you reside on the Alaskan
tundra... and grow fruit trees there.

Sheldon, what chew smokin' boy? The good doctor said," Up here in the
frozen tundra". Sheldon, get a grip. But don't worry, when the sun comes
up in the west tomorrow, everything will be alright.


tomatoes are never mulched until the soil temp is high enough that it
wont impede growth. and mulches are used to moderate soil temp,
including keeping the soil cold under fruit trees in spring so they
wont blossom out to soon. Ingrid

It's scientifically impossible for mulch to cool soil, mulch (any
mulch) can only act to warm soil. Mulch absorbs radiant energy from
the sun, transfers heat energy directly to the soil, and insulates to
retain heat... when soil temperatures become too warm then it's best
to remove mulch and/or shade the area from direct sunlight with some
sort of suspended light diffuser, such as opaque plastic sheeting that
permits lots of aeration. Mulch does not add shade... any mulch
suspended above the soil is no longer mulch, then it becomes a
parasol. I've now concluded that you are not any kind of dr., perhaps
of bs.
Well, if'in you were using black mulch that would be true. Personally, I
use alphalfa which be more of a light golden hue when it dries out,
don't cha know? Now while it be true that besides suppressing weeds, it
also reduces water 'vaporation, in part by keepin' the soil cool. Damp
ground be dark colored, don't cha know. Dry ground be light colored (at
least it is in my garden) don't cha know. So if'in you leave dark ground
exposed to the Sun, it heats up and the ground loses water (PV=nrT).
In my garden, when the soil heats up, I mulch.

Look on the bright side. Maybe you be good at cards.

- Billy
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

In article
,
Billy Rose wrote:

In article . com,
Sheldon wrote:

........... up here in zone 5 mulch is used to keep the soil cool.

You not but a few hours ago claimed you reside on the Alaskan
tundra... and grow fruit trees there.

Sheldon, what chew smokin' boy? The good doctor said," Up here in the
frozen tundra". Sheldon, get a grip. But don't worry, when the sun comes
up in the west tomorrow, everything will be alright.


tomatoes are never mulched until the soil temp is high enough that it
wont impede growth. and mulches are used to moderate soil temp,
including keeping the soil cold under fruit trees in spring so they
wont blossom out to soon. Ingrid

It's scientifically impossible for mulch to cool soil, mulch (any
mulch) can only act to warm soil. Mulch absorbs radiant energy from
the sun, transfers heat energy directly to the soil, and insulates to
retain heat... when soil temperatures become too warm then it's best
to remove mulch and/or shade the area from direct sunlight with some
sort of suspended light diffuser, such as opaque plastic sheeting that
permits lots of aeration. Mulch does not add shade... any mulch
suspended above the soil is no longer mulch, then it becomes a
parasol. I've now concluded that you are not any kind of dr., perhaps
of bs.
Well, if'in you were using black mulch that would be true. Personally, I
use alphalfa which be more of a light golden hue when it dries out,
don't cha know? Now while it be true that besides suppressing weeds, it
also reduces water 'vaporation, in part by keepin' the soil cool. Damp
ground be dark colored, don't cha know. Dry ground be light colored (at
least it is in my garden) don't cha know. So if'in you leave dark ground
exposed to the Sun, it heats up and the ground loses water (PV=nrT).
In my garden, when the soil heats up, I mulch.

Look on the bright side. Maybe you be good at cards.

- Billy
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

Hmm. Mr Attention Deficit Disorder didn't answer my question.
He's obviously just a "know nothing sniper who pot-shots but who can't
suggest something better... proves absolutely you know zero".

"I can appreciate humor as well as the next person but unless you along
with your comedy offer a viable alternative than all you are is a know
nothing envious douchebag."

And such poor composition and misspelling too.

- Billy
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

P.S. You can have your petard back now.

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:18:54 -0700, Sheldon wrote:

plonk..........

Soil is not dirt?

--
Many tree problems are associated with the following:

Troubles in the Rhizosphere
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

Unhealthy Trees from the Nursery / Improper Planting
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub1.html and
Look up "Tree Planting"
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

Improper Mulching - http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub3.html and
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/index.html Look up "Mulch"

Improper Pruning
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning/

Improper Fertilization (See A Touch of Chemistry)
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

wrote in message
. com...
your experimental design is flawed. you needed to mulch the other
with cypress or some other colored mulch as a control. bare dirt is
not a proper control to the red mulch. Ingrid

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:01:59 -0600, Jack Schmidling
wrote:

We (my wife, as I said she was nuts) did an experiment with tomatoes and
red SRM mulch this year and I am eating crow.

The plants in the mulch row are at least twice as big as the row planted
in bare dirt... same plants only two feet away.

Anyone else have experience with this stuff?

js