On 7/8/2007 1:42 PM, Billy Rose wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

On 7/7/2007 6:52 PM, Billy Rose wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

My yard is completely fenced and walled. Raccoons still steal my entire
grape crop (two vines).
An idea how many pounds of table grapes that is? If it was wine grapes,
it would be about 80 pounds (.1 barrels).
One vine was 'Perlette', which had about 20 bunches around 5 pounds
each. That's about 100 pounds. The other was 'Black Monukka', about 15
bunches around 3 pounds each. That's another 75 pounds.

The interesting thing about this is that every little stem remained on
the vines. When I eat grapes and pick them off the bunch, I often get
the little stem attached to the grape, which I then have to remove. The
raccoons very cleanly removed each grape without the little stems.

This year, the raccoons (and I) will go hungry. The hill where my grape
vines grew is being repaired. It slipped in the heavy rains of January
2005. All vegitation on the hill had to be removed. My garden is a
mess and will require major work to fix the damage, not from the hill
sliding but from the construction work.

Sorry to hear about your hill slide. I don't know how you were growing
your grapes but I would recommend an arbor. Typically, with grapes you
let the vine vegetate the first three to four years, picking off any
fruit that tries to set. This puts all the energy into growth. Arrange
table and chairs under the arbor and you have a wonderful spot to
entertain and it gets the fruit up out of the way of the raccoons, cute
lil' fellers that they be.

You may want to throw them an ocassional bone. Having wild life around
you is becoming rarer and rarer as the housing tracts go up.

Good luck:-)

See my http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_grapes.html for how I grew
my grapes.

The hill did not move where the vine roots were. Grapes have very
sturdy, tough roots. Above the vines, however, the failed area spread
to the property lines on either side. Thus, the vines had to be removed
to regrade the slope.

This happened once before, when I had only one grape vine. Then, too,
the hill remained okay at the base of the vine. This time, I plan to
have three vines on the hill, adding 'Flame' in the center near the top.
From a neighbor, I already have rooted cuttings of 'Perlette', 'Black
Monukka', and 'Flame' in gallon nursery cans. If they're planted this
fall (as I plan), I should start harvesting in 2010. I'll be 69 by
then; I hope I can still climb the hill to tend the vines.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at http://www.rossde.com/garden/

In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

On 7/8/2007 1:42 PM, Billy Rose wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

On 7/7/2007 6:52 PM, Billy Rose wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

My yard is completely fenced and walled. Raccoons still steal my entire
grape crop (two vines).
An idea how many pounds of table grapes that is? If it was wine grapes,
it would be about 80 pounds (.1 barrels).
One vine was 'Perlette', which had about 20 bunches around 5 pounds
each. That's about 100 pounds. The other was 'Black Monukka', about 15
bunches around 3 pounds each. That's another 75 pounds.

The interesting thing about this is that every little stem remained on
the vines. When I eat grapes and pick them off the bunch, I often get
the little stem attached to the grape, which I then have to remove. The
raccoons very cleanly removed each grape without the little stems.

This year, the raccoons (and I) will go hungry. The hill where my grape
vines grew is being repaired. It slipped in the heavy rains of January
2005. All vegitation on the hill had to be removed. My garden is a
mess and will require major work to fix the damage, not from the hill
sliding but from the construction work.

Sorry to hear about your hill slide. I don't know how you were growing
your grapes but I would recommend an arbor. Typically, with grapes you
let the vine vegetate the first three to four years, picking off any
fruit that tries to set. This puts all the energy into growth. Arrange
table and chairs under the arbor and you have a wonderful spot to
entertain and it gets the fruit up out of the way of the raccoons, cute
lil' fellers that they be.

You may want to throw them an ocassional bone. Having wild life around
you is becoming rarer and rarer as the housing tracts go up.

Good luck:-)

See my http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_grapes.html for how I grew
my grapes.

The hill did not move where the vine roots were. Grapes have very
sturdy, tough roots. Above the vines, however, the failed area spread
to the property lines on either side. Thus, the vines had to be removed
to regrade the slope.

This happened once before, when I had only one grape vine. Then, too,
the hill remained okay at the base of the vine. This time, I plan to
have three vines on the hill, adding 'Flame' in the center near the top.
From a neighbor, I already have rooted cuttings of 'Perlette', 'Black
Monukka', and 'Flame' in gallon nursery cans. If they're planted this
fall (as I plan), I should start harvesting in 2010. I'll be 69 by
then; I hope I can still climb the hill to tend the vines.

These are domestic vines? Not vinifera? Domestic can go with natural
roots. Vinifera need to be grafted to domestic roots.

Walking up and down the hill side should keep you ticking. Exercise and
desire will take you a long way. Consider the arbors, even if you don't
entertain beneath them. This is the way they do it in northern Italy,
raccoons or not.
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

On 7/8/2007 11:47 PM, Billy Rose wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

On 7/8/2007 1:42 PM, Billy Rose wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

On 7/7/2007 6:52 PM, Billy Rose wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

My yard is completely fenced and walled. Raccoons still steal my entire
grape crop (two vines).
An idea how many pounds of table grapes that is? If it was wine grapes,
it would be about 80 pounds (.1 barrels).
One vine was 'Perlette', which had about 20 bunches around 5 pounds
each. That's about 100 pounds. The other was 'Black Monukka', about 15
bunches around 3 pounds each. That's another 75 pounds.

The interesting thing about this is that every little stem remained on
the vines. When I eat grapes and pick them off the bunch, I often get
the little stem attached to the grape, which I then have to remove. The
raccoons very cleanly removed each grape without the little stems.

This year, the raccoons (and I) will go hungry. The hill where my grape
vines grew is being repaired. It slipped in the heavy rains of January
2005. All vegitation on the hill had to be removed. My garden is a
mess and will require major work to fix the damage, not from the hill
sliding but from the construction work.
Sorry to hear about your hill slide. I don't know how you were growing
your grapes but I would recommend an arbor. Typically, with grapes you
let the vine vegetate the first three to four years, picking off any
fruit that tries to set. This puts all the energy into growth. Arrange
table and chairs under the arbor and you have a wonderful spot to
entertain and it gets the fruit up out of the way of the raccoons, cute
lil' fellers that they be.

You may want to throw them an ocassional bone. Having wild life around
you is becoming rarer and rarer as the housing tracts go up.

Good luck:-)
See my http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_grapes.html for how I grew
my grapes.

The hill did not move where the vine roots were. Grapes have very
sturdy, tough roots. Above the vines, however, the failed area spread
to the property lines on either side. Thus, the vines had to be removed
to regrade the slope.

This happened once before, when I had only one grape vine. Then, too,
the hill remained okay at the base of the vine. This time, I plan to
have three vines on the hill, adding 'Flame' in the center near the top.
From a neighbor, I already have rooted cuttings of 'Perlette', 'Black
Monukka', and 'Flame' in gallon nursery cans. If they're planted this
fall (as I plan), I should start harvesting in 2010. I'll be 69 by
then; I hope I can still climb the hill to tend the vines.

These are domestic vines? Not vinifera? Domestic can go with natural
roots. Vinifera need to be grafted to domestic roots.

Walking up and down the hill side should keep you ticking. Exercise and
desire will take you a long way. Consider the arbors, even if you don't
entertain beneath them. This is the way they do it in northern Italy,
raccoons or not.

According to Sunset, all three are "European". However, I contacted the
grape expert in our local office of the Farm Advisor in our county's
Cooperative Extension Program. He responded:
They should be fine own-rooted without a root stock. The advantage of
root stocks is generally resistance to soil borne pathogens and
increased vigor.
Apparently, problems with soil pests are not significant in this county.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at http://www.rossde.com/garden/

In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

On 7/8/2007 11:47 PM, Billy Rose wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

On 7/8/2007 1:42 PM, Billy Rose wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

On 7/7/2007 6:52 PM, Billy Rose wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

My yard is completely fenced and walled. Raccoons still steal my
entire
grape crop (two vines).
An idea how many pounds of table grapes that is? If it was wine grapes,
it would be about 80 pounds (.1 barrels).
One vine was 'Perlette', which had about 20 bunches around 5 pounds
each. That's about 100 pounds. The other was 'Black Monukka', about 15
bunches around 3 pounds each. That's another 75 pounds.

The interesting thing about this is that every little stem remained on
the vines. When I eat grapes and pick them off the bunch, I often get
the little stem attached to the grape, which I then have to remove. The
raccoons very cleanly removed each grape without the little stems.

This year, the raccoons (and I) will go hungry. The hill where my grape
vines grew is being repaired. It slipped in the heavy rains of January
2005. All vegitation on the hill had to be removed. My garden is a
mess and will require major work to fix the damage, not from the hill
sliding but from the construction work.
Sorry to hear about your hill slide. I don't know how you were growing
your grapes but I would recommend an arbor. Typically, with grapes you
let the vine vegetate the first three to four years, picking off any
fruit that tries to set. This puts all the energy into growth. Arrange
table and chairs under the arbor and you have a wonderful spot to
entertain and it gets the fruit up out of the way of the raccoons, cute
lil' fellers that they be.

You may want to throw them an ocassional bone. Having wild life around
you is becoming rarer and rarer as the housing tracts go up.

Good luck:-)
See my http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_grapes.html for how I grew
my grapes.

The hill did not move where the vine roots were. Grapes have very
sturdy, tough roots. Above the vines, however, the failed area spread
to the property lines on either side. Thus, the vines had to be removed
to regrade the slope.

This happened once before, when I had only one grape vine. Then, too,
the hill remained okay at the base of the vine. This time, I plan to
have three vines on the hill, adding 'Flame' in the center near the top.
From a neighbor, I already have rooted cuttings of 'Perlette', 'Black
Monukka', and 'Flame' in gallon nursery cans. If they're planted this
fall (as I plan), I should start harvesting in 2010. I'll be 69 by
then; I hope I can still climb the hill to tend the vines.

These are domestic vines? Not vinifera? Domestic can go with natural
roots. Vinifera need to be grafted to domestic hybrids roots.

Walking up and down the hill side should keep you ticking. Exercise and
desire will take you a long way. Consider the arbors, even if you don't
entertain beneath them. This is the way they do it in northern Italy,
raccoons or not.

According to Sunset, all three are "European". However, I contacted the
grape expert in our local office of the Farm Advisor in our county's
Cooperative Extension Program. He responded:
They should be fine own-rooted without a root stock. The advantage of
root stocks is generally resistance to soil borne pathogens and
increased vigor.
Apparently, problems with soil pests are not significant in this county.

??? Ever heard of phylloxera? American insect that nearly wiped out
European vineyards in the 1880s. European vines have no resistance to
it. American vines evolved with it. Europeans saved their vines by
grafting European fruit wood onto American root stock. Perhaps these are
European hybrids that have been crossed with American vines. If they are
straight European and you don't have sandy soil, they may not make it
ten years. But then again, who will? If I get a chance I'll look it up.
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:

Apparently, problems with soil pests are not significant in this county.

And then why, pray tell, are All European wine grapes planted on root
stock? Hmmm? Something not right here.
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/