I have a number of Deodoras (mostly Atlanticus) that we've had for 8-9
years. All were planted by a landscaper. They are mostly between 15-18' now.
Of all the trees I'm considering the topic of deep watering are about 20
(throw in 1 8' oak, 4-5 maple, douglas firs, 2 crabapples, 2 giant sequoias)
in total. The trees are scattered over about four acres with drip lines
going out from each line. Our watering system and water availability is such
that with the lines there's not much of a chance for regular deep watering.
We get lots of winter rain. *Probably" over the years, the trees of concern
have not gotten a lot of deep watering under these conditions. They all seem
sturdy at this point. No wind has taken any down. We are in the Sierra
foothills of Calif at 2700', and have very warm summers outside of Sacramento.

Does it make sense to now do deep watering? I just got kicked into action on
other property issues, and started giving this some serious thought. I
recently took a hose out to each tree and watered them deeply. I'll probably
do it again in early to mid-Oct. Is this worthwhile at this stage? I heard a
professional gardner mention that deep watering is usually required in the
early years of a tree's growth.
--
Wayne Watson (Nevada City, CA)

Web Page: speckledwithStars.net

In article ,
"W. Watson" wrote:

I have a number of Deodoras (mostly Atlanticus) that we've had for 8-9
years. All were planted by a landscaper. They are mostly between 15-18' now.
Of all the trees I'm considering the topic of deep watering are about 20
(throw in 1 8' oak, 4-5 maple, douglas firs, 2 crabapples, 2 giant sequoias)
in total. The trees are scattered over about four acres with drip lines
going out from each line. Our watering system and water availability is such
that with the lines there's not much of a chance for regular deep watering.
We get lots of winter rain. *Probably" over the years, the trees of concern
have not gotten a lot of deep watering under these conditions. They all seem
sturdy at this point. No wind has taken any down. We are in the Sierra
foothills of Calif at 2700', and have very warm summers outside of Sacramento.

Does it make sense to now do deep watering? I just got kicked into action on
other property issues, and started giving this some serious thought. I
recently took a hose out to each tree and watered them deeply. I'll probably
do it again in early to mid-Oct. Is this worthwhile at this stage? I heard a
professional gardner mention that deep watering is usually required in the
early years of a tree's growth.

I use a soaker hose which is cheap and effective on a timer.

These folks would like to sell you more but the add info is worth a look
anyway for options..

http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_tutorial.php

Bill

--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade

This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid

Watson

There is no requirement of trees that you deep water. The non-woody
absorbing roots that absorb water with essential elements dissolved in it
are most of the time in the upper four inches of soil. The biggest problem
during drought is over watering.
here is an article on where absorbing takes place.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.


"W. Watson" wrote in message
.. .
I have a number of Deodoras (mostly Atlanticus) that we've had for 8-9
years. All were planted by a landscaper. They are mostly between 15-18'
now. Of all the trees I'm considering the topic of deep watering are about
20 (throw in 1 8' oak, 4-5 maple, douglas firs, 2 crabapples, 2 giant
sequoias) in total. The trees are scattered over about four acres with drip
lines going out from each line. Our watering system and water availability
is such that with the lines there's not much of a chance for regular deep
watering. We get lots of winter rain. *Probably" over the years, the trees
of concern have not gotten a lot of deep watering under these conditions.
They all seem sturdy at this point. No wind has taken any down. We are in
the Sierra foothills of Calif at 2700', and have very warm summers outside
of Sacramento.

Does it make sense to now do deep watering? I just got kicked into action
on other property issues, and started giving this some serious thought. I
recently took a hose out to each tree and watered them deeply. I'll
probably do it again in early to mid-Oct. Is this worthwhile at this
stage? I heard a professional gardner mention that deep watering is
usually required in the early years of a tree's growth.
--
Wayne Watson (Nevada City, CA)

Web Page: speckledwithStars.net

g'day wayne,

generally mature trees will have found their own water table, the
drippers will keep nutrients availabe for the feeder roots which maybe
is the best you can currently do? if you want to get more water deeper
around the roots maybe look to creating a swale about along the
contour lines wher the feeder roots will be, the feeder roots are
generally not much furhter out that the drip line.

or for trees that aren't planted along contours then ceata a mni dam
at the same point as above these swales etc.,. can be created using
bails of hay/straw or a pile of mulch in a row form.

for future plantins consider plantng along contour lines and at the
same time as planting install say a 1 or 1/2 meter length of the black
plastic ag-pipe with holes in it eitehr side of the tree this will
allow you to get water deeper at watering time.

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:38:56 -0700, "W. Watson"
wrote:
snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

What are these feeder roots you speak of? Trees do not absorb food from the
soil. They absorb water and essential elements dissolved in it by way of
their non-woody absorbing roots with the help of mycorrhizae and in some
cases root hairs.
Absorbing can be found he
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.


"len garden" wrote in message
...
g'day wayne,

generally mature trees will have found their own water table, the
drippers will keep nutrients availabe for the feeder roots which maybe
is the best you can currently do? if you want to get more water deeper
around the roots maybe look to creating a swale about along the
contour lines wher the feeder roots will be, the feeder roots are
generally not much furhter out that the drip line.

or for trees that aren't planted along contours then ceata a mni dam
at the same point as above these swales etc.,. can be created using
bails of hay/straw or a pile of mulch in a row form.

for future plantins consider plantng along contour lines and at the
same time as planting install say a 1 or 1/2 meter length of the black
plastic ag-pipe with holes in it eitehr side of the tree this will
allow you to get water deeper at watering time.

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:38:56 -0700, "W. Watson"
wrote:
snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

len garden wrote:

generally mature trees will have found their own water table,


Agreed. All of a sudden artificially deep watering mature trees will
very likely do more harm than good... if it ain't broken don't fix it.

This is not something I do for well-established trees unless it's a
major drought ( 1/3 of the normal rainfall for the entire season) or
if the tree is stressed for some other reason (like the neighbor backed
a truck into it.) And then I'll do it once, in October or so.

Kay

Isn't it true though that deeper roots add strength to the tree, that is,
hold it firmer in winds?

symplastless wrote:
Watson

There is no requirement of trees that you deep water. The non-woody
absorbing roots that absorb water with essential elements dissolved in it
are most of the time in the upper four inches of soil. The biggest problem
during drought is over watering.
here is an article on where absorbing takes place.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html


--
Wayne Watson (Nevada City, CA)

Web Page: speckledwithStars.net

On Sep 24, 2:37?pm, "W. Watson" wrote:
Isn't it true though that deeper roots add strength to the tree, that is,
hold it firmer in winds?

Less water, not more, is what encourages stronger root systems. Deep
watering of trees should only be done during extended periods of very
short water supply... and then no more than twice a growing season.
If a tree needs deep watering more often then that type of tree should
not have been planted there. Over watering is far more damaging to
trees than the occasional shortage.

all trees have a network root system that is in the upper level of
soil below the surface these usually but no always extend to the drip
line of the tree they are called the feeder root system as this area
in the soil is where the nutrients gather the most, and yes it take
bacteria, earth worms and otehr organisms to break that material down
so those roots can take up those nutrients to the tree, that is the
feeder root system.

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 19:12:32 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:
snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

Good question. The non-woody roots absorb and the woody roots are for
support, manufacturing vitamins, storing sugar converted to starch and more.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"W. Watson" wrote in message
. net...
Isn't it true though that deeper roots add strength to the tree, that is,
hold it firmer in winds?

symplastless wrote:
Watson

There is no requirement of trees that you deep water. The non-woody
absorbing roots that absorb water with essential elements dissolved in it
are most of the time in the upper four inches of soil. The biggest
problem during drought is over watering.
here is an article on where absorbing takes place.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html


--
Wayne Watson (Nevada City, CA)

Web Page: speckledwithStars.net

Again I repeat. The non-water absorbing roots are most of the time in the
upper four inches of soil. Watering deeper than that is not of value.

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.


"Sheldon" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 24, 2:37?pm, "W. Watson" wrote:
Isn't it true though that deeper roots add strength to the tree, that is,
hold it firmer in winds?

Less water, not more, is what encourages stronger root systems. Deep
watering of trees should only be done during extended periods of very
short water supply... and then no more than twice a growing season.
If a tree needs deep watering more often then that type of tree should
not have been planted there. Over watering is far more damaging to
trees than the occasional shortage.

Trees do not absorb a nutrient. They absorb essential elements.

Food is a substance that provides and energy source, mostly. Nutrient is a
substance that provides an energy source, elements, and other substances
essential for life, in types and amounts that can provide a healthy life.
Fertilizer is a substance that provides elements, as salts mostly, or in
bonded forms, that require microorganisms to alter to forms that can be
absorbed by plants. I do not call elements - nutrients, however nutrients
would contain elements. You can put a file in a folder but you can't put a
folder in a file. A list of elements can be found he
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...US211%26sa%3DX

17 Elements For Life - Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorus,
Potassium, Calcium, Sulfur, Magnesium, Manganese, Iron, Copper, Boron,
Molybdenum, Chlorine, Zinc, Nickel [Sodium, Cobalt, Selenium?]

14 essential elements are obtained by trees from the soil. I do not have a
list of which ones they are.

Wood is the substrate of the base of the food web, the mycorrhizal fungi.
Mycorrhizae tend to be abundant in composted wood such as nurse logs. We
had great success at tree biology workshops finding mycorrhizae during dryer
times, in and about nurse logs. I believe, you don't have to agree with it,
please, just think. I think that by applying mulch as I recommend under
mulch here that you facilitate the mycorrhizae rather than just adding what
I believe you mean as humus, over a lawn. Not that its bad in any way,
adding humus i.e..

Mulching - http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub3.html
and
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/ Look up "Mulch"

Did I say - Mycorrhizae are organs that facilitate the absorption of
elements essential for healthy growth. Mycorrhizae resist the Demons Of D.
Mycorrhizae facilitate the absorption of elements. Demons of D are those
things that add up to the big D word DEATH. E.g., Depletion, disruption,
and dysfunction. Elements can be depleted. Disruption, you get hit my a
Mac truck. Dysfunction, some organ such as mycorrhizae may not function.


Major Elements C; H; N; O; P; K; S; Mg; Ni; Fe; Ca; Zn; Mo; Mn; B; Cl; Cu

There is the law of the minimum. It states the element that is deficient
the most, would be the determining factor in the health of the tree.

I think research would be wise in the search for the optimum fertility level
for trees.

I did some soil testing in the upper four inches of soil and from at and
about nurse logs in old growth forest which contain hemlocks and white
pines. And much more. Here is my average on my testing for the latter.
These where five test. 3 test sites where in Allegheny National
Forest(Hearts Content) Pennsylvania
and two where in Allegheny National Forest(Tionesta Scenic area)
Pennsylvania.
Results are in Pounds Per Acre PPA. AVAILABLE ELEMENTS
P 8.2
K 236
Mg 107
Ca 594
Al 220.6
Fe 110.8
Mn 118.6
Zn 11.96
NO3-N 28.8
Did not get B or CU.
Organic matter was 29.32%
Ex Acidity 81 ME/100G
Salts mmho: 0.01 mmho/cm
Moisture %3.97
Water Soluble mg/kg B 1.0738
ACID Soluble (mg/kg)
Cd 0.976
Cu 6.768
Ni 5.71 (Penn State discovered the element Ni to be essential in small
amounts)
Mn 426.378
Co 3.084
Zn 46.818
Pb 101.792
Cr 5.078
P 726.226
The CARBON TO NITROGEN RATION was 27:1
pH 4.2 WOW

That would be a goal of mine if I was going to provide essential elements
professionally. I did not see to many people in the old growth sections.

There was more calcium at a nurse logs in a separate test.

We don't feed trees, however, we can feed the soil with composted wood
(chips and nurse logs) and leaves. We can feed the system.

I have some results for some sick hemlocks (elements in soil)


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.







all trees have a network root system that is in the upper level of
soil below the surface these usually but no always extend to the drip
line of the tree they are called the feeder root system as this area
in the soil is where the nutrients gather the most, and yes it take
bacteria, earth worms and otehr organisms to break that material down
so those roots can take up those nutrients to the tree, that is the
feeder root system.

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 19:12:32 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:
snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len & bev

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

Look up "Non-Woody Roots
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/N/index.html

See "Woody Roots"
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/W/index.html


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"W. Watson" wrote in message
.. .
I have a number of Deodoras (mostly Atlanticus) that we've had for 8-9
years. All were planted by a landscaper. They are mostly between 15-18'
now. Of all the trees I'm considering the topic of deep watering are about
20 (throw in 1 8' oak, 4-5 maple, douglas firs, 2 crabapples, 2 giant
sequoias) in total. The trees are scattered over about four acres with drip
lines going out from each line. Our watering system and water availability
is such that with the lines there's not much of a chance for regular deep
watering. We get lots of winter rain. *Probably" over the years, the trees
of concern have not gotten a lot of deep watering under these conditions.
They all seem sturdy at this point. No wind has taken any down. We are in
the Sierra foothills of Calif at 2700', and have very warm summers outside
of Sacramento.

Does it make sense to now do deep watering? I just got kicked into action
on other property issues, and started giving this some serious thought. I
recently took a hose out to each tree and watered them deeply. I'll
probably do it again in early to mid-Oct. Is this worthwhile at this
stage? I heard a professional gardner mention that deep watering is
usually required in the early years of a tree's growth.
--
Wayne Watson (Nevada City, CA)

Web Page: speckledwithStars.net