especially if he's going to be telling the farmer that RoundUp
is a pesticide... nothing like making yourself look *really*
ignorant when confronting a farmer about his spraying
schedules.

RoundUp is a pesticide. It kills pesty plants. Pesticide is a broad term
that includes insecticides, fungicides, rodenticides, and herbicides.

"enigma" wrote in message
. ..

[sniip]
especially if he's going to be telling the farmer that RoundUp
is a pesticide...

[snip]

?? Of course Roundup is a pesticide -- what's your point??

enigma wrote:

Jim wrote:
Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message from contains these words:

I would be more interested in discussing with them the
ultimate unsustainability of the pesticides they are
using. There are plenty of farmers nowadays,
especially in the Northeast, that are successfully
pulling in crops without using Roundup at all.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a

That's a good thought. Maybe he'd be interested in
changing his methods.

It would be good if he did, but the last thing a new
arrival to any
rural area should do, is start trying to suggest to the
resident farmers that you know how they should run their
business. Nothing could be more calculated to put his back
up, just when you want him to be your friend, and let you
know (minimum) what times of year he sprays and (best for
you) get to the point where he calls on the phone to say
"I'll be spraying tomorrow if it's not too windy".

Janet, well written, well stated and a good piece of
advice.

especially if he's going to be telling the farmer that RoundUp
is a pesticide... nothing like making yourself look *really*
ignorant when confronting a farmer about his spraying
schedules.
for the most part no one is going to be spraying if it's
likely to wind drift (too expensive/wasteful) anyway, but i
can't say i know much about canola...
lee

you most likely read the thread. my blood boiled then I
felt much better when I read what Janet wrote. yep, I was
glad I saw what Janet wrote.

in the past you yourself have written of your experiences
with newcomers and oh how I could relate.

I hope Ann in Zone 6a will elaborate on her words "unsustainability
of the pesticides" because I believe she actually understands.

Gil Faver wrote:

especially if he's going to be telling the farmer that RoundUp
is a pesticide... nothing like making yourself look *really*
ignorant when confronting a farmer about his spraying
schedules.

RoundUp is a pesticide. It kills pesty plants. Pesticide is a broad term
that includes insecticides, fungicides, rodenticides, and herbicides.

technically you are correct and that is why the NCDA & CS uses
the term on the license they issue to anyone passing their
certification requirements.

in the reality of the application one would not apply a herbicide
in order to kill insects. therefore classifications and categories
are established so as to make labeling clear for specific use
applications.

"Gil Faver" wrote in
news :



especially if he's going to be telling the farmer that
RoundUp is a pesticide... nothing like making yourself
look *really* ignorant when confronting a farmer about his
spraying schedules.

RoundUp is a pesticide. It kills pesty plants. Pesticide
is a broad term that includes insecticides, fungicides,
rodenticides, and herbicides.

shrug i like being a little more precise. if my (ought-to-
return-to-the-city) neighbor came over & asked me not to put
pesticide on the poison ivy, i'd agree with him. i'd still be
putting RoundUp on it though...
lee

Charlie wrote:

Jim wrote:

[....]

my blood boiled then I
[....]

You want to know what makes my blood boil, Bro.Jim?

"Farmers" who claim to be stewards of God's creation, that shake hands
with the deer, and yet who spread death upon the Land and feed crops,
who speak of good seeds of truth yet plant the evil seeds of
Mon-satan-o and followup with their Liquid Death. *Especially* when
said farmer only plants 24 acres of soybeans. I grew up in northern
Missouri. I have walked many a bean row, many a year, killing weeds
with a sharp chunk of metal on the end of a stick.

24 acres is nothing.

yea the fellow from Texas said it'd all fit in his driveway.

You speak of the rich, fertile earth, the smell and the feel of it, yet
you hasten its destruction with your use of and support of GM seed and
Round-Up. All for less than ten thousand dollars gross. Shameful.

God called upon us to care for his creation, that includes Mother Earth
and all Creatures upon it. Stewardship. You think poison and
supporting the likes of Mon-satan-o is a noble pursuit and garners
divine approval? You, in your small way, are adding to the destruction
being wrought upon Gaia and Her Children.

You are a newcomer on Earth, yet you treat it like something to be
beaten into shape for your benefit.

I wonder how the Native Americans felt when their new europeon
neighbors came and told them how it was to be? Hmmmmmmm......

Charlie

Charlie, glad you got that off your chest.

In article , Charlie wrote:



You want to know what makes my blood boil, Bro.Jim?

"Farmers" who claim to be stewards of God's creation, that shake hands
with the deer, and yet who spread death upon the Land and feed crops,
who speak of good seeds of truth yet plant the evil seeds of
Mon-satan-o and followup with their Liquid Death. *Especially* when
said farmer only plants 24 acres of soybeans. I grew up in northern
Missouri. I have walked many a bean row, many a year, killing weeds
with a sharp chunk of metal on the end of a stick.

24 acres is nothing.

You speak of the rich, fertile earth, the smell and the feel of it, yet
you hasten its destruction with your use of and support of GM seed and
Round-Up. All for less than ten thousand dollars gross. Shameful.

God called upon us to care for his creation, that includes Mother Earth
and all Creatures upon it. Stewardship. You think poison and
supporting the likes of Mon-satan-o is a noble pursuit and garners
divine approval? You, in your small way, are adding to the destruction
being wrought upon Gaia and Her Children.

You are a newcomer on Earth, yet you treat it like something to be
beaten into shape for your benefit.

I wonder how the Native Americans felt when their new europeon
neighbors came and told them how it was to be? Hmmmmmmm......

Charlie

What did you do about weeds like dogbane that can't be effectively
controlled with a hoe?
There probably is no definitive answer to the next question. What's
better environmentally, using chemicals and modern farming practices on
fewer total acres or using older methods on more total acres?


Dean

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Dean Hoffman wrote:

[....]
There probably is no definitive answer to the next question. What's
better environmentally, using chemicals and modern farming practices on
fewer total acres or using older methods on more total acres?


Dean


g

I'm voting for the older methods on more total acres.
then we can 'maybe' justify stopping the urbanization
of rural america.

can we vote Chicago style? g

Charlie wrote:

Jim wrote:

g


You surely don't have an agenda, do you, Jim?

on tomorrow's list or outline of things to be considered or done

1. arrive at job site
2. remove storm windows carefully so they don't fall apart
3. scrape surfaces with wire brush
4. scrape surfaces again with metal edge scraper
5. inspect window glazing and repair as necessary
6. obtain color samples from customer and confirm color selection
7. go to paint store
8. stop by coffee shop
9. go to hardware store to get tubes of caulk and a better caulk gun

g

In article , Charlie wrote:

given your advanced years

You pin headed little twerp. Whose in advanced years? I used to be older
but I'm much younger now, thank you very much. 'Twas the day when
rapscallions like you would be taken out back of the wood shed.

Sounds like Number 1 has a head on his shoulders, your son must have
married well.

Keep your left up, and keep counter punching. Don't they know who they
are fightin'?

Hang in dawg,
--
FB - FFF

Billy

Get up, stand up, stand up for yor rights.
Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.
- Bob Marley

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 09:55:24 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article om,
wrote:

On Sep 30, 9:29 am, Ann wrote:
John Bachman expounded:

If the farmer follows all of the procedures specified by the law and
policies of your area (you did not tell us where you are) then you
should have no problem. That may or may not be a big "if".

And you believe this because? Big chemical told you so? They have
nothing to lose if they tell the truth, now, do they?

I would contact the farmer and express my concern. Ask him what
pesticides he uses and what his procedures are. Ask him to notify you
on days that he will be using pesticides near your home so that you
can personally monitor the application. If your monitoring gives you
concern then address them with him and the local agricultural
authorities.

I would be more interested in discussing with them the ultimate
unsustainability of the pesticides they are using. There are plenty
of farmers nowadays, especially in the Northeast, that are
successfully pulling in crops without using Roundup at all.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

That's a good thought. Maybe he'd be interested in changing his
methods.

Thanks,

Darryl

John Bachman didn't mention that he is an "Integrated Pest Management"
consultant. In my experience with him in this NG, he has been objective
and honest in his opinions.

Oh, you may want to ease in slowly on telling a farmer how to farm or at
least, leave your motor running.

Thanks for the kind words Billy but you do not have it quite right. I
am a small farmer who uses integrated pest management techniques. That
is it. The only consulting I do is expressing opinions on the news
group and answering questions put to me by friends and family.

I get dismayed when people immediately assume that the farmer who uses
pesticides and evil being intent on destroying the earth. In my
experience nothing could be further from the truth.

All of the farmers I meet at the numerous seminars and classes that we
all intend to improve our knowledge and skills are very concerned with
the proper application of controls, be they organic or chemical.

Notably, both types of farmers attend these seminars, which are
usually run by the agricultural extension service, and exchange views.
Often the seminar will occur at a farm which may be organic or not.
Again both types of farmers attend and are interested in the
techniques used on that farm.

Farmers are business people who make their living and provide for
their families by farming. They are interested in the most economical
methods of operation and surely want to avoid anything that would be
detrimental to the continuing success of their enterprise. Excessive
and misdirected use of any product is contrary to their goals so it
does not happen except by accident and such accidents are usually
quickly investigated resulting in corrective action.

These farmers are constantly on the lookout for techniques that will
make them more efficient. Qualified labor is a scarce and therefore
valuable commodity. The farmer spends the labor available to him as
wisely as possible. He must because market pressures put a limit on
the value of his products. That is how the free market system works
and the farmer lives by those rules or goes under.

John

Charlie wrote in
:

quoting me instead of Jim
Ain't it funny all this talk 'bout glyphospate bein' a
pesticide and liscensing and technicalities and such.
Round-up kills. It is poison. Your use of such contributes
to the poisioning of my grandchildren.

i doubt sincerely my use of glyphosphate, as method of last
resort, against poison ivy (to which i have a violent allergy,
plus the 'remedies' for said allergy give me hives worse than
the PI) is going to affect your grandchildren. i do not spray
the stuff (wasteful, ineffective). i cut the vines & paint the
open wound. doesn't even faze the other weeds at the base of
the tree. does a good job of killing the evil vines though.
just cutting the vine kills the upper portion, but PI regrows
readily from the roots. painting glyphosphate on the cut kills
the roots. i do agree that spraying glyphosphate is a bad
thing, and spraying PI doesn't do anything toward killing the
stuff unless you get a windless, dry week in very early spring
as the leaves are just budding (which never happens around
here anyway).
if you can prove to me that this method is causing
glyphosphate drift into the soil/water, i'll look into another
method. as it stands now though, the PI has to go, & this is
the best option i can find.
lee

enigma wrote:
Charlie wrote in
:

quoting me instead of Jim
Ain't it funny all this talk 'bout glyphospate bein' a
pesticide and liscensing and technicalities and such.
Round-up kills. It is poison. Your use of such contributes
to the poisioning of my grandchildren.

i doubt sincerely my use of glyphosphate, as method of last
resort, against poison ivy (to which i have a violent allergy,
plus the 'remedies' for said allergy give me hives worse than
the PI) is going to affect your grandchildren. i do not spray
the stuff (wasteful, ineffective). i cut the vines & paint the
open wound. doesn't even faze the other weeds at the base of
the tree. does a good job of killing the evil vines though.
just cutting the vine kills the upper portion, but PI regrows
readily from the roots. painting glyphosphate on the cut kills
the roots. i do agree that spraying glyphosphate is a bad
thing, and spraying PI doesn't do anything toward killing the
stuff unless you get a windless, dry week in very early spring
as the leaves are just budding (which never happens around
here anyway).
if you can prove to me that this method is causing
glyphosphate drift into the soil/water, i'll look into another
method. as it stands now though, the PI has to go, & this is
the best option i can find.
lee
If you're conducting a GWOPI[1] then you can count me on as an ally who relies on the tactical application of CBW agents. My favorite is Ortho Brush-B-Gon (Triclopyr) applied in early Spring about the time that the multiflora rose begins to leaf out. One targeted application on the PI, MFR, and other assorted jagger bushes[2] does them in. I still have to avoid the dead vines because the urushiol retains its capability to cause pain and distress (as do the jaggers).

[1]Global War On Poison Ivy
[2]Anything with thorns

--
Those who can make you believe absurdities
can make you commit atrocities -- Voltaire

In article ,
(enigma) says...

if you can prove to me that this method is causing
glyphosphate drift into the soil/water, i'll look into another
method. as it stands now though, the PI has to go, & this is
the best option i can find.

Glyphosate takes a variable amount of time to break down, depending
mostly on temperature, but it binds immediately with any clay particles
it comes into contact with, which inactivates it. The antidote for
accidental glyphosate ingestion is Kaopectate, which contains kaolin
clay. Even a slight murkiness in the water used to mix the spray will
reduce or eliminate the effectiveness of glyphosate. Essentially, once
it hits the ground, it's dead. It does not transport through the soil
by water motion.

It is not legal to machine apply glyphosate within 50 feet of open
water. Using a hand sprayer, you can get within 10 feet.



--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 09:55:24 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article om,
wrote:

On Sep 30, 9:29 am, Ann wrote:
John Bachman expounded:

If the farmer follows all of the procedures specified by the law and
policies of your area (you did not tell us where you are) then you
should have no problem. That may or may not be a big "if".

And you believe this because? Big chemical told you so? They have
nothing to lose if they tell the truth, now, do they?

I would contact the farmer and express my concern. Ask him what
pesticides he uses and what his procedures are. Ask him to notify you
on days that he will be using pesticides near your home so that you
can personally monitor the application. If your monitoring gives you
concern then address them with him and the local agricultural
authorities.

I would be more interested in discussing with them the ultimate
unsustainability of the pesticides they are using. There are plenty
of farmers nowadays, especially in the Northeast, that are
successfully pulling in crops without using Roundup at all.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

That's a good thought. Maybe he'd be interested in changing his
methods.

Thanks,

Darryl

John Bachman didn't mention that he is an "Integrated Pest Management"
consultant. In my experience with him in this NG, he has been objective
and honest in his opinions.

Oh, you may want to ease in slowly on telling a farmer how to farm or at
least, leave your motor running.

Thanks for the kind words Billy but you do not have it quite right. I
am a small farmer who uses integrated pest management techniques. That
is it. The only consulting I do is expressing opinions on the news
group and answering questions put to me by friends and family.

I get dismayed when people immediately assume that the farmer who uses
pesticides and evil being intent on destroying the earth. In my
experience nothing could be further from the truth.

All of the farmers I meet at the numerous seminars and classes that we
all intend to improve our knowledge and skills are very concerned with
the proper application of controls, be they organic or chemical.

Notably, both types of farmers attend these seminars, which are
usually run by the agricultural extension service, and exchange views.
Often the seminar will occur at a farm which may be organic or not.
Again both types of farmers attend and are interested in the
techniques used on that farm.

Farmers are business people who make their living and provide for
their families by farming. They are interested in the most economical
methods of operation and surely want to avoid anything that would be
detrimental to the continuing success of their enterprise. Excessive
and misdirected use of any product is contrary to their goals so it
does not happen except by accident and such accidents are usually
quickly investigated resulting in corrective action.

These farmers are constantly on the lookout for techniques that will
make them more efficient. Qualified labor is a scarce and therefore
valuable commodity. The farmer spends the labor available to him as
wisely as possible. He must because market pressures put a limit on
the value of his products. That is how the free market system works
and the farmer lives by those rules or goes under.

John

My error, and my apology for miss characterizing you but I still respect
your knowledge and honesty. In your response about the use of "Round-up"
you put in a very large "if". Personally, I hate these chemicals and
that gives me a reflex reaction against them. You help me understand why
a person may rationally wish to use them or not. It gives me balance,
and I still hate them, but I respect your opinion.

I wish you luck because I don't believe it is a free market. It seems
that today, for a farmer to survive, he must find a niche market that
isn't worth the trouble for big agra.

Again my apologies for not listening more closely.
--
FB - FFF

Billy

Get up, stand up, stand up for yor rights.
Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.
- Bob Marley