What is the best way to eliminate weeds in mulch?

We purchased a home and the previous owner maintained a beautiful
backyard. We are moving in soon and would like to keep it that
way I do not have much a green thumb yet, but I am trying to get
up to speed as quickly as possible although there is much to learn.

Walking through the backyard the other day I noticed there were many
little weeds growing in the mulch. I say in the mulch because the
previous owner said he had a weed barrier under the mulch. I assume
weed seeds landed on the mulch and are beginning to sprout. I would
prefer not to pick them by hand because there are thousands of them
littered throughout the mulch.

And in the future is it a reasonable idea to apply pre-emergent on top
of the mulch to prevent the problem?

We also have a crushed granite path that is suffering similar
symptoms...I assume this should be treated/prevented in a manner
consistent to the mulch?

What are some solutions to this problem?

Thanks in advance for your expertise.

On 3/20/2008 5:24 AM, wrote:
What is the best way to eliminate weeds in mulch?

We purchased a home and the previous owner maintained a beautiful
backyard. We are moving in soon and would like to keep it that
way I do not have much a green thumb yet, but I am trying to get
up to speed as quickly as possible although there is much to learn.

Walking through the backyard the other day I noticed there were many
little weeds growing in the mulch. I say in the mulch because the
previous owner said he had a weed barrier under the mulch. I assume
weed seeds landed on the mulch and are beginning to sprout. I would
prefer not to pick them by hand because there are thousands of them
littered throughout the mulch.

And in the future is it a reasonable idea to apply pre-emergent on top
of the mulch to prevent the problem?

We also have a crushed granite path that is suffering similar
symptoms...I assume this should be treated/prevented in a manner
consistent to the mulch?

What are some solutions to this problem?

Thanks in advance for your expertise.

If the weed barrier is still intact, the weeds should not grow above a
certain size. First, check to make sure the barrier is still there. If
it is, just pull the largest weeds and any that are starting to flower.

As for the decomposed granite path, hand weeding should be easy. I use
a paring knife and a bucket as I slowly crawl along my paths. It's very
relaxing. I also carry pruning and grass shears in case I need to trim
the edges or groom spent flowers that are near the path.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at http://www.rossde.com/garden/

Best way for your solution is by having a thick layer of organic mulch material .This helps in reducing/preventing the number of annual weeds, as its hard to get through the thick layer.

Proper mulching can reduce problems.


Improper Mulching -
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/mulch.html

As far as herbicides go:
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/spring.html

I would not add more than 3-4" of mulch.

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

wrote in message
...
What is the best way to eliminate weeds in mulch?

We purchased a home and the previous owner maintained a beautiful
backyard. We are moving in soon and would like to keep it that
way I do not have much a green thumb yet, but I am trying to get
up to speed as quickly as possible although there is much to learn.

Walking through the backyard the other day I noticed there were many
little weeds growing in the mulch. I say in the mulch because the
previous owner said he had a weed barrier under the mulch. I assume
weed seeds landed on the mulch and are beginning to sprout. I would
prefer not to pick them by hand because there are thousands of them
littered throughout the mulch.

And in the future is it a reasonable idea to apply pre-emergent on top
of the mulch to prevent the problem?

We also have a crushed granite path that is suffering similar
symptoms...I assume this should be treated/prevented in a manner
consistent to the mulch?

What are some solutions to this problem?

Thanks in advance for your expertise.

Also the non-woody roots are mostly in the upper four inches of soil and
hoes and such can cause problems in that case.

Troubles in the Rhizosphere
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.





wrote in message
...
What is the best way to eliminate weeds in mulch?

We purchased a home and the previous owner maintained a beautiful
backyard. We are moving in soon and would like to keep it that
way I do not have much a green thumb yet, but I am trying to get
up to speed as quickly as possible although there is much to learn.

Walking through the backyard the other day I noticed there were many
little weeds growing in the mulch. I say in the mulch because the
previous owner said he had a weed barrier under the mulch. I assume
weed seeds landed on the mulch and are beginning to sprout. I would
prefer not to pick them by hand because there are thousands of them
littered throughout the mulch.

And in the future is it a reasonable idea to apply pre-emergent on top
of the mulch to prevent the problem?

We also have a crushed granite path that is suffering similar
symptoms...I assume this should be treated/prevented in a manner
consistent to the mulch?

What are some solutions to this problem?

Thanks in advance for your expertise.

Most of what you label as weeds have roots that grow deeper then the
non-woody roots in the upper four inches of soil. get a shovel and look for
yourself.

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
Top posted just for you.

Do you even KNOW what a colinnear hoe looks like or how it works? No?
Didn't think so. Nobody suggested putting a hoe into the upper four
inches. The question posed was how to get rid of weeds in the MULCH.




On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:53:47 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:

Also the non-woody roots are mostly in the upper four inches of soil and
hoes and such can cause problems in that case.

Troubles in the Rhizosphere
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding
us
that we are not the boss.





wrote in message
...
What is the best way to eliminate weeds in mulch?

We purchased a home and the previous owner maintained a beautiful
backyard. We are moving in soon and would like to keep it that
way I do not have much a green thumb yet, but I am trying to get
up to speed as quickly as possible although there is much to learn.

Walking through the backyard the other day I noticed there were many
little weeds growing in the mulch. I say in the mulch because the
previous owner said he had a weed barrier under the mulch. I assume
weed seeds landed on the mulch and are beginning to sprout. I would
prefer not to pick them by hand because there are thousands of them
littered throughout the mulch.

And in the future is it a reasonable idea to apply pre-emergent on top
of the mulch to prevent the problem?

We also have a crushed granite path that is suffering similar
symptoms...I assume this should be treated/prevented in a manner
consistent to the mulch?

What are some solutions to this problem?

Thanks in advance for your expertise.

"mor" wrote in message
...

;779749 Wrote:
What is the best way to eliminate weeds in mulch?

We purchased a home and the previous owner maintained a beautiful
backyard. We are moving in soon and would like to keep it that
way I do not have much a green thumb yet, but I am trying to get
up to speed as quickly as possible although there is much to learn.

Walking through the backyard the other day I noticed there were many
little weeds growing in the mulch. I say in the mulch because the
previous owner said he had a weed barrier under the mulch. I assume
weed seeds landed on the mulch and are beginning to sprout. I would
prefer not to pick them by hand because there are thousands of them
littered throughout the mulch.

And in the future is it a reasonable idea to apply pre-emergent on top
of the mulch to prevent the problem?

We also have a crushed granite path that is suffering similar
symptoms...I assume this should be treated/prevented in a manner
consistent to the mulch?

What are some solutions to this problem?

Thanks in advance for your expertise.

Best way for your solution is by having a thick layer of organic mulch
material .This helps in reducing/preventing the number of annual
weeds, as its hard to get through the thick layer.


Mulch should not be deeper than 3-4". When roots grow into the mulch the
mulch dries out and the roots die without forming the abscission zone which
is a defense process for woody plants.

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

Mulching instructions:

Mulching -
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/mulch.html


Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

If the weed mat does not work then why spend the money?


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:30:41 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:

Most of what you label as weeds have roots that grow deeper then the
non-woody roots in the upper four inches of soil. get a shovel and look
for
yourself.

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

Oh c'mon already. These weeds on top of mulch are most likely henbit,
chick weed, pig weed...I doubt there are deep tap root weeds in mulch
which has weed fabric under it. I've been gardening for my whole
life. Stick to trees and let gardeners answer garden questions.

wrote in message
...
What is the best way to eliminate weeds in mulch?

We purchased a home and the previous owner maintained a beautiful
backyard. We are moving in soon and would like to keep it that
way I do not have much a green thumb yet, but I am trying to get
up to speed as quickly as possible although there is much to learn.

Walking through the backyard the other day I noticed there were many
little weeds growing in the mulch. I say in the mulch because the
previous owner said he had a weed barrier under the mulch. I assume
weed seeds landed on the mulch and are beginning to sprout. I would
prefer not to pick them by hand because there are thousands of them
littered throughout the mulch.

And in the future is it a reasonable idea to apply pre-emergent on top
of the mulch to prevent the problem?

We also have a crushed granite path that is suffering similar
symptoms...I assume this should be treated/prevented in a manner
consistent to the mulch?

What are some solutions to this problem?

Thanks in advance for your expertise.

Mulching has a lot of benefits and works best if it is renewed occasionally.
Overall, I use a lot more mulch than I can afford to buy on a regular basis,
so what I have done is contact a local tree trimming company and my electric
company. When one of them has a good load of wood chips from a local job,
they unload their chips into my mulch pile, which I then spread around the
garden.

When needed, I turn the existing mulch with a fork while the new weeds are
still small, then add a new top layer. Also I occasionally will touch up
weedy areas with Roundup. This keeps weeds down and keeps the garden
looking neat. Just keep the mulch away from the trunks of trees. I mulch
right up to shrubbery like crepe myrtle and beauty-berry, and keep the mulch
at least 3" thick -- 4-6 inches or more in most places.

For the gravel walkway, the easiest way is an occasional treatment with
Roundup, which will kill off the weeds while leaving the gravel. You may
want to also rake it occasionally to move the gravel around, and spritz it
with a garden hose to get it looking clean.

3-4 inches of mulch is a minimum, not a maximum. As the mulch builds up and
decomposes you wind up with very friable soil that is beneficial to the
plants. Over the past few years my garden, once mostly sand, has become
very healthy with a nice soft feel when you step on it. In places I
probably now have 8-10 inches of mulch and compost (from previous mulch) and
the plants -- roses, crepe myrtle, day lilies, plumeria, azaleas, cymbidium
orchids, holly, etc. do extremely well. I have some impatiens that are now
three feet high or more.

I don't like "weed-stop" because I find most weeds start from the top down
and the fabric makes it very hard to work the soil, turn over the mulch, or
install new plants.

I learned this "secret" from an extension agent who had an existing
agreement with the electric company to take their wood chips, and his
extensive garden now has 12" or more of mulch throughout, including around
his citrus. It's a win-win situation -- they don't have to pay the county
to dispose of their chips, and the user gets an endless supply of free
mulch.

Regards --

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:45:45 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:

If the weed mat does not work then why spend the money?

The weed mat does work in most instances, but birds still poop out
seeds and seeds still travel by air, and by wind and they work their
way into the humusy layer of the mulch and germinate. Let it go
aleady. You are wrong, so just let it go.

Let what go? Where in nature is it natural for the separation of cellulose
and soil as with weed mat? Why mulch? I.e., if its such a problem for you.
You treat trees with pesticides, kill plants with herbicides. And if they
work, why do you still have the same problems?

I will tell you exactly why with lucidity. IGNORANCE OFF TREE BIOLOGY!
LACK OF COMMON SENSE (Which I as well, also suffer from)!


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

I learned this "secret" from an extension agent who had an existing
agreement with the electric company to take their wood chips, and his
extensive garden now has 12" or more of mulch throughout, including around
his citrus. It's a win-win situation -- they don't have to pay the county
to dispose of their chips, and the user gets an endless supply of free
mulch.

Regards --



Dear Regards

As for trees as mostly for woody plants which maintain a symplast.

With respect. When mulch is more than 3-4" thick, the non woody roots tend
to grow into the mulch. With the finer gradation of mulch, it dries out
first. When a leaf is shed, first the leaf dies and then a abscission zone
if formed and the leaf is shed. The abscission zone made up mostly of
suberin. On trees like pin oaks and young beech, the abscission zone do not
form for some reason. They hold on to their leaves over winter often. If
you take and break off a leaf at the stem you will see that there is green
tissue. Chlorophyll has to be constantly manufactured. Now with
mycorrhizae and none woody roots the opposite happen. First the abscission
zone is formed and then the mycorrhizae and non-woody roots die and are
digested by microorganisms. Now, when the mulch has non-woody roots growing
in it and the mulch dries out and the roots or mycorrhizae die, the
abscission zone doe not form. This leaves an opening not sealed. Small to
us but huge to micros that can incite disease.

Nurse logs hold water for dry times. A log that is 1 1/2 feet in diameter
of larger and at least four foot long can hold water as a reservoir when it
reaches that ecological stage. That is very important in forest health -
downed wood with soil contact will become a water reservoir for trees during
dry times. Mulch comes in different gradations. Nurse logs will have
non-woody roots and mycorrhizae growing in them and this is a good thing.
If you are using common mulch when roots grow into mulch you have too much
mulch.

Here are some articles on the topic:
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/WATER.html

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/index.html

FRESH CHIPS!



First allow me to define some terms. The "symplast" is a webwork of living
cells (parenchyma) in branches, trunks and roots of trees that still produce
leaves or needles. "Mulch" is anything that will benefit the microorganisms
of the soil. You do not have to agree yet you will know what I mean.

Proper mulching can be very beneficial for the soil as well as your trees.
I. e., if the correct material is applied in the correct way. First, do
not use fresh chips. The parenchyma cells of the symplast contain
protoplasm. When we chip a branch with symplast the protoplasm gets smeared
all over the place. This can attract undesirables that can do and do do
nasty things to trees above as well as below ground. Of course if the
branch chipped is symplastless the chips can be used immediately.
Composting fresh chips in a pile for one year should be enough to safely
apply them as mulch. Composted wood chips make great mulch for trees and
their associates with many benefits.

Now here is where many people make the big mistake -
application. Keep the mulch back from the trunk flair at the base, at least
6 inches. Mulch should not touch the trunk! The mulch should be 3 - 4
inches thick and flat. Due to the fact, that turf roots grow deeper than
the non-woody absorbing roots of the tree, we suggest not to dig out the
turf. The turf could be cut low and then the mulch placed on top. DO NOT
INJURE THE TREE WITH A STRING TRIMMER!

The outer bark of trees is primarily made up of suberin. Which
is long chains of fatty acids. There is carbon but the chains of carbon and
hydrogen in suberin are so varied that few enzymes from microorganisms are
able to cleave it for an energy source. For this reason we suggest not
using all bark for mulch. Composted wood and leaves has the carbon required
by beneficial microorganisms.

Also, the more composted the wood chips, the more you reduce
your chances of artillery fungus on your house.

Mulch applications should be maintained on a yearly basis. For more on info
look up "Mulch" or "Symplast" at www.treedictionary.com.



I hope this helps the trees. I hope you get help from this Regards.




--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

I think it is time for us to just back away for the time being. Let him
work it out. You don't want to read it, skip over it.

Take care of your self John.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

"symplastless" expounded:


--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"symplastless" expounded:


"Jangchub" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:45:45 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:

If the weed mat does not work then why spend the money?

The weed mat does work in most instances, but birds still poop out
seeds and seeds still travel by air, and by wind and they work their
way into the humusy layer of the mulch and germinate. Let it go
aleady. You are wrong, so just let it go.

Let what go? Where in nature is it natural for the separation of cellulose
and soil as with weed mat? Why mulch? I.e., if its such a problem for you.
You treat trees with pesticides, kill plants with herbicides. And if they
work, why do you still have the same problems?

I will tell you exactly why with lucidity. IGNORANCE OFF TREE BIOLOGY!
LACK OF COMMON SENSE (Which I as well, also suffer from)!

You are totally off your rocker on this one, even moreso than usual.
If you can't understand the fact that seeds fall onto a mulch layer
and germinate then you are the ignorant one. Even your precious trees
do the same thing.

I just stir the mulch occasionally. There is no such thing as
weedfree, various methods just take different levels of effort.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

I learned this "secret" from an extension agent who had an existing
agreement with the electric company to take their wood chips, and his
extensive garden now has 12" or more of mulch throughout, including
around his citrus. It's a win-win situation -- they don't have to pay
the county to dispose of their chips, and the user gets an endless supply
of free mulch.

Regards --



Dear Regards


[Academic ramblings snipped]

I hope this helps the trees. I hope you get help from this Regards.

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding
us that we are not the boss.

Let me keep it simple:

-- Electric companies and tree service professionals can be a good, regular
source of free wood chips

-- These chips -- mostly brown material, little green, can be used for mulch
in gardens and around trees without composting -- they will gradually
decompose and become a soil amendment.

-- The wood chips will conserve moisture, prevent weed growth and amend the
soil as they decompose.

-- To be effective, three inches or more of mulch are needed; The upper
limit is probably determined by the gardener's time and workload, but over
time, 8-12 inches of mulch provide real benefits to the garden.

-- Keep a gap between the mulch and the trunks of trees. My trees get a 4"
gap, but the azaleas, bamboo, bulbs, etc. get the full mulch treatment.

-- I get a large dump truck load of wood chips a couple of times a year
from a local tree service, so I'm at about 6 inches of mulch in most of the
garden after 9 years of doing this.

Mr. Gene Joyner is one of South Florida's best-known plant experts. "Ask
Gene Joyner" was the solution to almost any plant question from homeowners,
reporters or commercial growers --Here's a quote from the Palm Beach Post:

" "Mulch" was a frequent answer, at a time when few homeowners had heard of
the practice to retain moisture and improve soil. Better soil, as Joyner
would say, means better plants. "He had a big impact on homeowners because
of his example of heavy mulching at Unbelievable Acres," said Chris Wenzel,
a mango grower from Delray Beach. Joyner estimates he has spread "tens of
thousands of yards" of mulch on his own garden, which is why the winding
paths are springy with compacted wood chips. As a result, he irrigates once
a week, never sprays for bugs and has no weeds."
-- Gene Joyner's "Unbelievable Acres" in West Palm has about 12" of mulch
throughout, without any of the dire consequences presented by JAK When
academic concepts don't match real world results, it's not the real world
that's going to change -- Beware of so-called tree experts who are
book-reference smart and real-world experience poor.

Side note: Our trees lose their leaves in the Spring, and we plant
vegetables in the Fall -- and I add mulch to the garden with every change of
the season.

I hope you get some help from this, J.A.K.