My father has a couple of old (Japanese?) pine trees, each
about 8 feet tall in which the needles are browning.
He says that he only waters the trees and has never used
any fertilizer.

Is there any fertilizer/additive that can help with
these trees?

TIA

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:39:10 GMT, bruceh wrote:

My father has a couple of old (Japanese?) pine trees, each
about 8 feet tall in which the needles are browning.
He says that he only waters the trees and has never used
any fertilizer.

Is there any fertilizer/additive that can help with
these trees?

TIA


Don't need to fertilize pine trees. They can be mulched but the mulch
should not touch the bark. There are acres of dead pine trees in the
hills of TN due to pine beetle destruction.

Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:39:10 GMT, bruceh wrote:

My father has a couple of old (Japanese?) pine trees, each
about 8 feet tall in which the needles are browning.
He says that he only waters the trees and has never used
any fertilizer.

Is there any fertilizer/additive that can help with
these trees?

TIA


Don't need to fertilize pine trees. They can be mulched but the mulch
should not touch the bark. There are acres of dead pine trees in the
hills of TN due to pine beetle destruction.

I have heard of the beetle problems as the forests here in
Southern California have been infected due to the droughts.
As I understand it, however, it's due to the lack of water
that the trees have weakened and could not naturally fight
off the beetles. My father does water the trees so I'm
thinking this is not the problem.

So if fertilizers are not required, a thought came to
my mind. If I remember the way the soil is around the
base, it may be a bit compacted. Could compacted soil
prevent the roots from getting enough water? BTW, he
doesn't mulch.

In article , bruceh wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:39:10 GMT, bruceh wrote:

My father has a couple of old (Japanese?) pine trees, each
about 8 feet tall in which the needles are browning.
He says that he only waters the trees and has never used
any fertilizer.

Is there any fertilizer/additive that can help with
these trees?

TIA


Don't need to fertilize pine trees. They can be mulched but the mulch
should not touch the bark. There are acres of dead pine trees in the
hills of TN due to pine beetle destruction.

I have heard of the beetle problems as the forests here in
Southern California have been infected due to the droughts.
As I understand it, however, it's due to the lack of water
that the trees have weakened and could not naturally fight
off the beetles. My father does water the trees so I'm
thinking this is not the problem.

So if fertilizers are not required, a thought came to
my mind. If I remember the way the soil is around the
base, it may be a bit compacted. Could compacted soil
prevent the roots from getting enough water? BTW, he
doesn't mulch.

I've no idea what a Japanese pine is but I have one Chinese black
Pine. Around here they mulch themselves as do the white pine.. However
I rob it and add the needles to my foot paths. If you are have a
general malaise with the whole tree involved I'm clues less. I've have
many white pine with some sort of borer that kills the new top growth
but the tree's seem to be able to carry on sometimes sending up a new
leader.

Now you got me looking about for a Japanese pine.


Bill lover of things unfamiliar.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article , bruceh wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:39:10 GMT, bruceh wrote:

My father has a couple of old (Japanese?) pine trees, each
about 8 feet tall in which the needles are browning.
He says that he only waters the trees and has never used
any fertilizer.

Is there any fertilizer/additive that can help with
these trees?

TIA


Don't need to fertilize pine trees. They can be mulched but the mulch
should not touch the bark. There are acres of dead pine trees in the
hills of TN due to pine beetle destruction.

I have heard of the beetle problems as the forests here in
Southern California have been infected due to the droughts.
As I understand it, however, it's due to the lack of water
that the trees have weakened and could not naturally fight
off the beetles. My father does water the trees so I'm
thinking this is not the problem.

So if fertilizers are not required, a thought came to
my mind. If I remember the way the soil is around the
base, it may be a bit compacted. Could
compacted soil
prevent the roots from getting enough water? BTW, he
doesn't mulch.

Compacted soil can kill trees.

Healthy Roots and Healthy Trees
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/PUBS/Garden/02926.html
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:42:11 GMT, bruceh wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:39:10 GMT, bruceh wrote:

My father has a couple of old (Japanese?) pine trees, each
about 8 feet tall in which the needles are browning.
He says that he only waters the trees and has never used
any fertilizer.

Is there any fertilizer/additive that can help with
these trees?

TIA


Don't need to fertilize pine trees. They can be mulched but the mulch
should not touch the bark. There are acres of dead pine trees in the
hills of TN due to pine beetle destruction.

I have heard of the beetle problems as the forests here in
Southern California have been infected due to the droughts.
As I understand it, however, it's due to the lack of water
that the trees have weakened and could not naturally fight
off the beetles. My father does water the trees so I'm
thinking this is not the problem.

So if fertilizers are not required, a thought came to
my mind. If I remember the way the soil is around the
base, it may be a bit compacted. Could compacted soil
prevent the roots from getting enough water? BTW, he
doesn't mulch.


Adding 3-4" of compost around the tree, being careful not to allow the
compost to touch the bark or trunk, will help retain moisture,
conserve water, help neutralize the pH and encourage beneficial worms
and microbes. Worms help aerate the soil and add castings. The
compost/mulch will deteriorate over time and should be renewed. Small
frequent waterings will encourage a shallow root system--a good
monthly soaking should be enough for an established mulched tree. Most
pine trees are draught tolerant, making them a good choice for dry
climates such as southern CA. You may also want to have an arborist
take a look at the trees to determine the reason for the browning
needles. Has there ever been browning of the needles? Some pine
trees go through season cycles.

"bruceh" wrote in message
...
Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:39:10 GMT, bruceh wrote:

My father has a couple of old (Japanese?) pine trees, each
about 8 feet tall in which the needles are browning.
He says that he only waters the trees and has never used
any fertilizer.

Is there any fertilizer/additive that can help with
these trees?

TIA


Don't need to fertilize pine trees. They can be mulched but the mulch
should not touch the bark. There are acres of dead pine trees in the
hills of TN due to pine beetle destruction.

I have heard of the beetle problems as the forests here in
Southern California have been infected due to the droughts.
As I understand it, however, it's due to the lack of water
that the trees have weakened and could not naturally fight
off the beetles. My father does water the trees so I'm
thinking this is not the problem.

Water is an issue in making decisions based on tree biology wityh respect to
tree farming. So issues that need to be addressed for the health of trees
is that water during dry times be addressed by use of symplastless tree
trunks with soil cantact. This feature of the ecological stgaes of trees is
often admired in old growtrh forest. Cook State Park Forest in PA was
having a drought when pieces of soil wood in cubes about 1" square when
picked up and squezzed, produced a steady stream of water (coninfers White
Pine and Eastern Hemlocks). The water issue can be addressed in once
fertile forest or tree farming by leaving more soil-wood.
Some points:
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...nce/water.html
I put a twist on it:
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...tis/water.html


So if fertilizers are not required, a thought came to
my mind. If I remember the way the soil is around the
base, it may be a bit compacted. Could compacted soil
prevent the roots from getting enough water?

As well as oxygen for respiration.

BTW, he
doesn't mulch.

Mulching with composted wood and leaves would address some of those problems
while consideration of the value of the larger gradations of wood (cellulose
mostly) such as course woody debris would be wise.

Mulching suggestions:
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/mulch.html

Two good articles on soil, wood, chestry and trees:
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html
and
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

I've no idea what a Japanese pine is but I have one Chinese black
Pine. Around here they mulch themselves as do the white pine.. However
I rob it and add the needles to my foot paths. If you are have a
general malaise with the whole tree involved I'm clues less. I've have
many white pine with some sort of borer that kills the new top growth
but the tree's seem to be able to carry on sometimes sending up a new
leader.

This usually happens to white pines grown out in the open. It is called the
"white pine weevil". You can train one young branch to be the new leader.
Maybe about what, 15 year old trees?


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

One thing that may help is that evergreens like the soil to be somewhat acidic.
You
can check this with a simple PH testor, or you can simply add something like
Miracle Grow for Evergreens, which will sweeten up the soil.

Sherwin

bruceh wrote:

My father has a couple of old (Japanese?) pine trees, each
about 8 feet tall in which the needles are browning.
He says that he only waters the trees and has never used
any fertilizer.

Is there any fertilizer/additive that can help with
these trees?

TIA

In article ,
"symplastless" wrote:


I've no idea what a Japanese pine is but I have one Chinese black
Pine. Around here they mulch themselves as do the white pine.. However
I rob it and add the needles to my foot paths. If you are have a
general malaise with the whole tree involved I'm clues less. I've have
many white pine with some sort of borer that kills the new top growth
but the tree's seem to be able to carry on sometimes sending up a new
leader.

This usually happens to white pines grown out in the open. It is called the
"white pine weevil". You can train one young branch to be the new leader.
Maybe about what, 15 year old trees?

The trees are about 30 years old and grow amongst black oaks.

Thanks!

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

One thing that may help is that evergreens like the soil to be somewhat
acidic.
You
can check this with a simple PH testor, or you can simply add something like
Miracle Grow for Evergreens, which will sweeten up the soil.

Sherwin

bruceh wrote:

My father has a couple of old (Japanese?) pine trees, each
about 8 feet tall in which the needles are browning.
He says that he only waters the trees and has never used
any fertilizer.

Is there any fertilizer/additive that can help with
these trees?

TIA

If you want to loosen the soil, add organic material (grass clippings,
compost, ect., if there is a pine forest near you, you might find fallen
branches that still have needles on them). If you could plant rye, or
red clover, they would put lots of organic material into the soil
(roots), to loosen it up. Red clover will also add nitrogen. Don't add
chemical fertilizer because it can harm microorganisms in the soil that
are the basis of the healthy soil you want to produce, use fish emulsion
instead.

Having mulched or planted rye or red clover, and fertilizing with an
organic fertilizer, keep the area under the tree moist.

The compacted soil that I am familiar with if usually play grounds or
areas where people park their cars. If this is the case, these practices
must stop if you want to save your trees and improve the soil.

If you need to adjust the soil pH (I doubt it is necessary because the
pine trees are already there) use powered elemental sulfur, which is
available at most nurseries. Chemical fertilizers are salts, which harm
soil organisms, and which are quickly flushed away (damaging the quality
of the run-off, algae blooms, ect.), requiring further purchases of chem
ferts to replace them. The goal is to produce soil that supports a
healthy biological community that releases their nitrogen, and other
elements, as they live out their life cycle.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

sherwindu wrote:

One thing that may help is that evergreens like the soil to be somewhat acidic.
You
can check this with a simple PH testor, or you can simply add something like
Miracle Grow for Evergreens, which will sweeten up the soil.

Sherwin

Small correction to my last posting. Sweet soil usually conotates alkaline soil,

whereas sour soil is related to acidic. It's all semantics, but getting the soil
to
be more acidic than basic is the important thing.

Sherwin

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

sherwindu wrote:

One thing that may help is that evergreens like the soil to be somewhat
acidic.
You
can check this with a simple PH testor, or you can simply add something
like
Miracle Grow for Evergreens, which will sweeten up the soil.

Sherwin

Small correction to my last posting. Sweet soil usually conotates alkaline
soil,

whereas sour soil is related to acidic. It's all semantics, but getting
the soil
to
be more acidic than basic is the important thing.

Sherwin

Acidic (below pH 7) is sour. Basic (above pH 7) is bitter. Sweet is
around pH 7. Damn, don't your raggedy, bigoted ass know nothin', Doo?
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

Billy wrote:

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

sherwindu wrote:

One thing that may help is that evergreens like the soil to be somewhat
acidic.
You
can check this with a simple PH testor, or you can simply add something
like
Miracle Grow for Evergreens, which will sweeten up the soil.

Sherwin

Small correction to my last posting. Sweet soil usually conotates alkaline
soil,

whereas sour soil is related to acidic. It's all semantics, but getting
the soil
to
be more acidic than basic is the important thing.

Sherwin

Acidic (below pH 7) is sour. Basic (above pH 7) is bitter. Sweet is
around pH 7. Damn, don't your raggedy, bigoted ass know nothin', Doo?
--

Billy


I'm impressed by your knowledge of the pH scale. If I hadn't pointed out this
mistake, I doubt if you would have even noticed.

At least I try to correct my mistakes. You on the other hand are always
looking
for an opportunity to score points. How juvenile.

Sherwin

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

Billy wrote:

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

sherwindu wrote:

One thing that may help is that evergreens like the soil to be somewhat
acidic.
You
can check this with a simple PH testor, or you can simply add something
like
Miracle Grow for Evergreens, which will sweeten up the soil.

Sherwin

Small correction to my last posting. Sweet soil usually conotates
alkaline
soil,

whereas sour soil is related to acidic. It's all semantics, but
getting
the soil
to
be more acidic than basic is the important thing.

Sherwin

Acidic (below pH 7) is sour. Basic (above pH 7) is bitter. Sweet is
around pH 7. Damn, don't your raggedy, bigoted ass know nothin', Doo?
--

Billy


I'm impressed by your knowledge of the pH scale. If I hadn't pointed out
this
mistake, I doubt if you would have even noticed.

At least I try to correct my mistakes. You on the other hand are
always
looking
for an opportunity to score points. How juvenile.

Sherwin

Amusing, coming from someone of your limited awareness. If you wake-up
for a moment you will notice that I said "Basic (above pH 7) [soil] is
bitter. You state that "Sweet soil usually conotates alkaline soil,".

I guess I shouldn't blame you for taking your dubious scientific
knowledge from gardening sites.

http://www.gardenterms.com/sweet_soil.htm
Sweet Soil
An old fashioned term used to describe limy soil, that with a high level
of alkaline and a low level of acid. The pH of 4 indicates slightly
alkaline soil and the pH of 6 indicates soil that is very alkaline.

In the real world it goes:

alkaline:
having the properties of an alkali, or containing alkali; having a pH
greater than 7. Often contrasted with acid or acidic ; compare with
basic .

http://dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/webdocs/...roperties.html
Base Property #1. The word "base" has a more complex history (see below)
and its name is not related to taste. All bases taste bitter. Mustard
tastes bitter. Many medicines, cough syrup is one, taste bitter. This is
the reason cough syrups are advertised as having a "great grape taste."
The taste is added in order to cover the bitterness of the active
ingredient in cough syrup.

Billy Goat Gruff at your service. You sure you're not a troll?
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/